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nah, that part of T-Moon Xomplex X (if I'm not mistaken) it doesn't make sense to me, although I like the rest.. [white]for him to destroy a reality marble that even the world can't correct would exhaust him to a near death. and IF (unfortunately, I don't think shirou is on that level yet) shirou use something like weapon shower like how archer kill caster in UBW, shiki won't have the time to kill or evade all of them, no matter how good he is.[/white]

So my opinion is, both of them would just kill themselves if they fight seriously and ended with draw..

What I want to know is is there anything MEoDP can't kill? Maybe Avalon or Ea/Enuma Elish (since Shirou, who can understand the structure of a sword at first glance, can't even understand it no matter how hard he tried)?

ah, Melty Blood.. I don't really understand it yet. but yeah, a phenomenon can't be killed, although I don't remember how Arcueid intervened and made it killable.

Avalon.. well, since they say it's an ultimate protection, I thought at least as long as the Avalon is activated, the lines would disappear temporarily. and it's formless, not a shield like Rho Aias, and can protect from physical harm, which I think in this case including a knife or anything needed to cut the lines.


and Ea, a sword that has no origin. and that's why I thought it's more or less similar to 'no exist' in some way

Tsukihime forces are indeed overpowered, but I just couldn't bear Fate's coolness.. xd
I still don't even understand what eyes beside MEoDP (like Arc's eyes) does.. strengthen her like summoning her castle? or just destroying everything?
While most noble phantasm are weaker than it, but IMO they're far cooler..
Too bad the greatest disadvantage of the main hero's strong abilities is their own weak body (except ryougi).

edit: don't you think we're ou of topic too much considering this a 'clean up' and 'welcome' thread? xd
maybe we should create a new thread.

I guess I'll try my best to mediate this whole thing, since these posts are getting a little out of hand.~ (sorry if I repeat things)

A reality marble is possible to destroy due to the fact that once it comes into existence, it exists. Which makes it susceptible to Shiki's eyes, and destruction by him. True that blades could be created by Shirou to protect himself, but it takes time for him to trace things. Unlike Archer, Shirou is not a master of his Unlimited Blades Works, nor does he ever get the chance to do such. If he was to try and rush a projection, it would end up much like it did the last time (as seen in the battle with berserker) one shattered blade.


Now Avalon is a special case, but there is something that you must remember. It is neither an item, nor a weapon, but a place. The noble phantasm you witness coming from Saber is only her stealing energy from the land, and transferring it to herself. The "shield" that becomes present during the whole situation is merely a go between for her and the area. Considering how it works, Shiki wouldn't be able to destroy it. It is truly ultimate defense, with the ability to block all magic/sorcery/etc. his eyes would do nothing to help him kill it. If he tried, it would look like a child trying to take down a dune of sand with a fork.


Edit: Also, I have some question with how your servants built Ukyo.~

The thing is though, that Shiki cannot just "kill" raw energy. He is only able to take on something that has a living existence itself that is in his reach. Going after energy, would do nothing considering that he wouldn't be destroying the source of Avalon's power. That and like I said before (it's even quoted) her noble phantasm, is immune to magical abilities, which is what Shiki's eyes are. His eyes would not be able to see the lines of death that made up the attack.

I don't mind the fact that it has 3 phantasms, but what I can't support, is how each is a different type of anti unit. So, I was wondering if you could just stick to one type?

I've only started watching it, but be aren't talking of the Shiki present in that story line, so the plot affects in it shouldn't matter.
Shirou is constantly using Avalon in battles, you just don't realize it till the end. Since the abilites main purpose is to heal wounds, hence how he manages to survive about every blow given to him by a servant. Now, attack wise he does use it with Saber twice, (1) when they fight Gilgamesh in the park and (2) the final battle against Kotomine; what frees him from the curse of the grail.

Alright, as long as they aren't over the top attack, I'm fine with that, but I'd rather limit it to just two types of anti abilities, and then just another type of special.

I found an interesting discussion on Beast's Lair: MEoDP vs Avalon
an official statement from Nasu:

Which made me think that Tohno is better in physical's death than ryougi, while she's better in concept/no physical's death.
But can any of the Shikis understand the concept of Avalon, which immerses its user into a tranquil domain of the fairies?
Maybe Ryougi, but I still doubt she can.
Again, I think it's similar to Shirou's brain that can't understand the concept of Ea, which not originate/belong to this world.


If it's between Shiki and Shirou.. well, Avalon is not an attack to begin with. Saber delivered the final blow on Gil with Excalibur, while using Avalon to defend herself from Enuma Elish.
Against Shiki, it's not Avalon that Shirou must rely on, but his projection skill.

If it's between any Shikis and the true owner of Avalon, Saber, which is a Servant.. then of course Saber win, as normal human can't match a servant.
Another Nasu's interview:


===EDIT===
For some reason, looking that there's Shirou, Rin, Saber in profile, that make me want to create the ultimate servant Gilgamesh..
"Hahaha, Die, you mongrel!"

Ukyo: Shirou never used Avalon to attack to begin with since it is not an offensive noble phantasm. True that Shirou could easily be stabbed, but he would not die due to the fact that Avalon is present in this battle. For every injury that he gets shall be healed by the item, no matter how fatal. If it wasn't within him, then yes he would die in and instant, but because it is, he is practically an immortal to some standard.

Shirou is immersed within the domain of Faeries upon calling Avalon forth when he is sucked into the curse of the grail. The golden light which envelopes both him and Saber upon activation, is when that happens.
Immersed Shirou

Vayth: As noted in the rules of the guild, main characters from the series are exempt from use unless given proper reasoning for them being there. Either that or you think up a good enough reason to convince us to let them in.

Shirou is played since he himself still lives in the city, and knows well of the war. Plus, being the way that he is, not involving himself in the fight wouldn't make sense.

Rin is played closely for the same reason, but more because half of the town is under the protection of her family, the Tohsaka. As the heir to such, she must guard what is hers, both the city and the towns people.

Lastly, Saber is played for the fact that with her contract to the grail, she is someone that must appear in every war. For her goal is not a wish itself, but the item in question. Whenever if it present, she shall be as well.

I'm only quoting what Nasu said, not any of people's opinion there.

if we're talking about their personality, whether they will kill other or not, then believe me, they won't fight and will become a good friend.. rofl


inactive Avalon doesn't make him immortal against any attack. It's pasif skill only enhance regeneration, but people will still die when they're killed, which 'stabbed' in this case is dot-stabbed by shiki. How many times do you think dead end out there. we have about 30++ (if I'm not mistaken) Tiger Dojo, although not all of them is dead end.

--
A same servant can't be summoned twice I guess.
well, I have a few character in my head, but I have to think not to make them too overpowered like in their original story..-_-