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I can see taking that perspective, about their comparative performance. I don't mean to suggest Eirika is a more valuable unit than Lyn (although I personally think that; for various reasons like Lyn competing with a larger cast for a spot and competing for promotion time with another Lord). I always go to the comparison with Lyn because of how remarkably similar they are to give people an idea of her stats. But I feel that because FE8 is less difficult, her greater stats in the easier game make her even more effective as a unit. Effective, but not impressive, I realize.

Honestly i didn't care as much for Sacred Stones as much as the other games. Thus It's one of the least played of my Fire Emblem games beaten only by Shadow dragon because i lost that after beating it twice and didn't want to shell out the money. Also I don't have a DS anymore, but that's not important.

Yeah, overall she was always someone i used only because i had to. I didn't use to many of the royals in sacred stones because i liked most of the other units better. She's a decent unit but i would've preferred to use the party space she took up for someone else.

As far as her personality goes, she seemed entirely too naive, even for a princess. Honestly royalty would not be that naive at her age. Granted, you see nothing of Renais' politics since throughout the part of the game you play the country does not exist as a nation, but i can't imagine that there would be no political plots by nobles and that her father wouldn't have taught her to be blindly trusting. Hell, looking at Lyon and Ephraim, who she seemed to have spent a deal of time around, neither of them seemed affected by the same naive stupidity as her, and some of that worldly wisdom should've rubbed off from them if nothing else. Even in the fuzzy memories i have of the flashbacks Lyon seemed to be stressed about the people of Grado.

Seth is the best unit in FE8. Period. This is about as close to fact as assessing something as subjective as character analysis can get. Use him. Use him the moment you get him. Use him for the entirety of the game. It is to your benefit. If EVER you’re going to use a prepromoted unit, let it be Seth.

Even if you don’t like the idea of using prepromoted units for some reason (almost 10 years after FE has been in the states, this problem has mostly been dealt with, but still persists in small amounts), you could use Seth for JUST the purpose of killing bosses (why this is actually more exp efficient than doing so with any other unit, I explained already; suffice to say this is going to be a long enough post that it isn’t worth going into too much detail – but using your highest leveled unit to kill bosses is the most ‘exp efficient’ way of doing things) and he would still be amazing. How amazing? Let’s just see how many bosses Seth dominates with JUST his base stats (on Hard Mode unless otherwise indicated):

Base stats:
HP 30, Str 14, Skl 13, Spd: 12, Luck 13, Def: 11, Res: 8, Con: 11

-O’Neill one rounded with Steel Sword
-Breguet one rounded with Iron Lance or stronger in NM, still one rounded with Silver Lance in Hard Mode.
-Bone one rounded with Iron Sword
-Bazba one rounded with Steel Sword
-Entombed one rounded with irons
-Saar one rounded with Silver Lance
-Novala one rounded with Iron Lance in HM, Iron Sword or above in NM
-Murray one rounded with Silver Lance, Murray wielding his Steel Sword
-Tirado2RKO with Silver Lance & +1 Atk point boost (be it from a level up or support with someone who boosts attack: anyone other than Natasha – as in perhaps Eirika or Franz, his two most ideal and earliest options: Eirika requires 19 turns which you’ve had 9 chapters to build over: 2 turns a chapter unreasonable by this point?) Guaranteed 2RKO in NM at base without any boost.

At this point, you have to choose a route. I’m calculating Eirika’s because I don’t feel like doing both and Eirika is a good support option for him anyway.
Eirika’s route:
-Binks wielding his Steel Axe makes him doubled by Seth’s base stats, and Seth can two-round him at base with a Steel Sword or higher (so attack him your turn and get attacked back enemy phase and it’s still done in a single turn if you’re counting)
Pablo wielding that 12 wt Divine as his weapon, his attack speed is reduced 5 points and precisely enough for Seth’s base speed to double. He is one rounded with a Silver Lance.
-Wight is NOT doubled, but he IS 2RKO’ed with the Silver Lance, again in the vein of attacking on your phase and being attacked back on the enemy phase reducing it to one turn. Or you could use Tethys to refresh him and do it all on your phase since she’s available at this point.

After that point, Seth’s bases are no longer as impressive for eliminating bosses in a timely manner by himself (with the exception of Pablo’s Purge-wielding reappearance). But supposing Seth was used JUST to kill these bosses, and not consistently with the rest of your team, how much experience would that have earned him?

Flat free 40 exp regardless of level for killing a boss. Regardless of how much lower or higher leveled they are. Even without calculating precisely how much experience Seth would have accrued from killing these bosses, that’s a flat 40 exp from 12 bosses at the very LEAST, which is at LEAST 4 level ups and 80 experience after that. It’s higher than that, too of course. Between some of those bosses being promoted and some taking two rounds of combat with means more experience, he’s easily at least 5 levels higher, if not more.

So at level 6, trying to stay on the VERY low side of things to be generous, Seth’s averages are:
HP: 34.5, Str: 16.5, Skl: 15.25, Spd: 14.25, Luck: 14.25, Def: 13, Res: 9.5

(Bear in mind, this hypothetical observation of Seth’s performance is assuming Hard Mode, also. In Normal Mode, he’s even more impressive, of course. It’s also assuming you’re not really USING him, but are just giving him boss kills. If he’s actually being used, his level would be even higher, too)

So with those minimum level ups, Seth is back to doubling and boss killing effectively. Against the Malduin, he falls slightly short of one rounding with a Silver Sword with just his average stats alone, there are a good variety of things that are available if not likely by this point that turn his 2RKO into a one. One could simply refresh him with Tethys and that would solve the problem. One could attempt to pull off a ORKO by giving him a Killing Edge (he doubles and only has to proc a crit once), giving him a ~60% chance of killing in one round (~66% if he has an S Rank in Swords, and even higher with certain supports). Additionally, if he’s achieved his maximum 5 supports with people other than Natasha, he’ll be able to one round with the Silver Sword naturally if they’re in range. The boss wields a Halberd, but he’s stationary, and there are forests next to him and you have WTA; not an issue. With this many options available, it’s fair to say he’s killing that Malduin in one turn somehow.

The next chapter featurs Aias and Pablo. It’s unreasonable to suppose he can take both out (probably doable if you make a plan for it, but impractical all the same). He was, and still is, one rounding Pablo with his base stats and has a number of options to use on Aias, due to the Great Knight being doubled and counting as a mounted and armored unit. I’d probably recommend he take out Pablo though, because his Res for a physical unit is one of the highest (the only mount that eventually has a chance at surpassing him in that regard is Amelia – and only via certain promotion options, and not until 10/20/20 which is not happening in game).

After that is Carlyle, who by this point probably can’t double Seth, but Seth isn’t doubling, either. I’d be honestly surprised if you have any unit that CAN double him if you aren’t bothering with skirmishes/arena, though. Seth is still among the easiest ways to deal with him. And of course, past that is the desert chapter and the point where I stop describing how great Seth is for defeating boss after boss; it’s the point where units are usually expected to promote if you’re not using the Tower/skirmishes/arena, and so you’ll have a greater variety of units that will more greatly appreciate the guaranteed 40 exp from killing a boss. Plus, it nears a point where bosses generally become harder to one round with just a single character anyway a lot of the time without going for crits. But DAMN if Seth still won’t be one of your best options a lot of the time and a great unit in general. In a game with 22 or so chapters, Seth can handle roughly two thirds of the bosses BY HIMSELF for the most part. No one else can claim that in this game. NO ONE. You could probably throw him in the final few chapters at base level and he’d be able to take out mooks, so great is Seth.

Supposing it wasn’t until the desert chapter that you used Seth for anything other than bosses because you believe in the myth of “exp stealing,” your party would still very likely never catch up to him as a whole. Supposing you actually use him in those chapters instead of just for killing bosses, as is optimal, he’ll essentially be your best character for an incredibly long period of time and never really outshined. Frankly, if you’re not using arenas/skirmishes/tower in-game, he’s your only character likely to hit level 20 promoted by endgame (most estimations put other characters at 20/10). He makes the game easier.

I’m not going to bother with stats because you can look them up if you want to, but suffice to say, even when the other potential Pallys promote, Seth is never outclassed or effectively outperformed (he’ll do better in some areas and worse in others in comparison to any particular one). His stats are right up there with everyone else’s, except for actually requiring less experience in the long run because he only needs 19 levels of being a promoted unit and has longer to get them, while they’d have to get those same 19 levels AND their levels from the first tier. Doesn’t matter if they’re leveling faster at first. They still objectively require more effort for the same results; that’s rather factual. And that’s presuming they’ll reach level 20 promoted, which is INCREDIBLY generous in-game for unpromoted units.

I didn’t even touch the fact that as a support unit, he makes other units even better, but Eirika and Franz both want his jock and consider him their number one support option. Those particular supports also notably boost Attack and Defense directly, some of the best stats to have supports boost simultaneously. He can also participate in a good number of support triangles/squares, some of which can be made entirely mounted for mounted playthroughs. So besides being awesome in combat, he provides support to others for potentially the entirety of the game as well. And it's GOOD support. Utility points for Seth.

Oh, right. He’s mounted for the entire game with 8 movement and control over 2/3 of the weapon triangle – enough to guarantee he’s never at a disadvantage when he initiates combat. And can travel across maps faster than anyone sans fliers usually, but still get terrain benefits. And can ferry your slower units when you’re in a rush. Really, if you don’t want to put the effort in, he trivializes the Bael Spider’s danger in Chapter six because he can blitz the boss before the spider reaches the civilians. Greater mount utility than anyone in the game, really (Vanessa might make a good counterargument though; and even then, he’d still be top 2). More utility points for Seth.

Can’t forget he comes with A ranks in both of his weapon types, so he can use any standard sword or lance for the entirety of the game and can effectively choose what weapon type to S Rank. I prefer giving him the S in swords, myself, simply because so many other mounted units compete for Vidofnir, plus for a mount, he’s got great Resistance as mentioned earlier and Audhulma accentuates that. On that resistance note again, though, it also makes him one of the best candidates for magic swords. No need to worry about his ability to use them ever due to the weapon rank, of course. More (trivial) utility points for Seth.

Oh, right. And I keep mentioning “entirety of the game” because he’s the only unit who has virtually guaranteed perfect availability (Eirika can too, but not on Ephraim’s story; Seth gets it both ways).

Frankly, the only reason NOT to use Seth is to make the game more challenging. Seth is the Easy Button. If you have an aversion to early-coming prepromotes, Seth is the cure. Try him the entire time. Just once. Objectively the best unit in the game, hands down.




Have I talked about Seth as a unit enough yet? Onto character. It’s pretty typical of his role in these games, and he has a generic possible romance with Eirika for a “Lord and their knight” type of love. But he is one of the youngest to fit in this role, which is kind of cool. That’s really all that stands out for me: standard fanfare but younger. Otherwise, it’s the usual checklist: sensible, loyal, generous, hardworking, serves as common sense when the main characters choose to be stupid or kind to the point of endangering themselves.

Hey everyone! Meant to start updating this again to coincide with Mel remaking the Best/Worst in the Series thread, but fell a week behind. But it's back and picking up right where it left off!

Our current unit is Franz from FE8.



Also: since FE12 and FE13 have been translated/released, they're probably going to be included into the rotation. FE13 will be our very next game to explore for a while with FE12 being the last on the rotation.

Really hoping to see this generate more posts and me updating it more regularly!

I agree with the second half, can't say much about the first, I never used him

Thanks for posting, everyone! As the games released since this thread has started are now being incorporated into the rotation, the current character for the next upcoming week is none other than MU/Avatar/Robin/whatever else you want to call them.

As there's lots of customization and the point that they're largely a self-insert, having them as the unit of the week might be disagreeable, but don't forget that there IS a script that applies to them. You don't get to make up all their dialogue. Their personality is effectively always the same, there only being some changes in conversations with select characters depending on the gender chosen.

Really hoping people have a lot to talk about with such a unique character as this.

Oh Robin... Robin, Robin, Robin....

From a gameplay standpoint, I think the concept of MU is great, especially in FE13. You can still customise MU's stats to a degree, and while MU isn't quite as gamebreaking as FE12, there is still a big chance they will be among your MVPs for the entire game. The veteran skill makes it very easy for MU to gain quicker levels and be among the first to reach level 20 and beyond, and since almost every class is available to MU, that extra boost will be quite welcome and useful as you take your MU on the path to your desired build. Ignis is a fantastic offensive skill and perfect for MU, and Rally Spectrum is also a definite plus. There are multiple options and multiple areas of customization that can alter your gameplay experience, made even more expansive with the fact that MU can marry any non-spotpass/streetpass character, lending customization to supports, and to Morgan as well. It's the kind of thing that can yield multiple different experiences and many things to experiment with.

My first MU went Tactician->Grandmaster->Dark Knight->Dark Pegasus->Sorcerer. Her current skillset consists of Veteran, Ignis, Rally Spectrum, Lifetaker, and Galeforce. She is my sorceress galeforceress. She still needs to cap out her newly limit broken stats, but her numbers are pretty cool all around. I had her as a primary tome user through the story portion, hence my choices after Grandmaster, which mostly occurred while I was doing postgame shenanigans. This is the sort of thing that can lead to plenty of individual strategies, experiments, and stories from players. I know that I have some fun streetpass stories already.

Storywise... Ugh...
Nothing ruins an experience quite like being reminded that you are playing a game in the middle of an otherwise pretty good story. The MU dialogue has improved in some ways from how it was in FE12, but it has also gotten worse in other ways, since now MU is central to the story. FE has had occasional problems with characters sucking up to some other character unconvincingly in the past, but the difference here is that MU is supposed to be a player insert character. From the POV shots in the first two cutscenes, this point is pretty indisputable. The fact that the game often halts everything in order to suck up to the player jettisons me out of the experience every time. While not all of FE13's lesser writing moments can be attributed to MU, I do think that the game's most toothless moments can be laid at MU's feet. Where MU's presence and the fact that the game seems averse to having any harsh feelings towards MU or anything MU does no matter how stupid it is (destroying an entire fleet? GEENYUZ!!), or how much of an offscreen asspull it looks like, it leads not only to MU not seeming like a real character, but potential character moments in the main story being taken away. After the storm of greatness that is Chapter 10, Chrom is left questioning whether he is actually worthy of his sister's ideals. Instead of allowing this to become interesting and be thought about for longer than one chapter, MU handwaves it and leads the army in cheerleading it out of him. Oh goody. The ending with MU coming back to life seems overly safe as well. God forbid we have a main character death at the end, so let's bring MU back through a teeny weeny sliver of luck thanks to the power of friendship. While I do admit to being a sucker for bookends, I really would have preferred it if MU stayed dead so we can have some actual emotions instead of more handwaving and barfing out the words "invisible ties" instead of actually building those ties through main story dialogue just to build up to MU being revived at the end. Thank Morgan for poking fun at the term at least once. And for the record I quite like Morgan as a character(s).

With all of this and MU's seeming inability to be challenged, I feel it really limits whatever character could be there as well as what could be done with such a character. Fire Emblem is a series that is at its best when getting messy with grey moralities and imperfect people and whatnot, as well as quality conversations between great characters of different colors. MU has this sort of halfhearted noncommittal almost character thing going on. I think it would have been far better if the game had completely made the character its own challengable fully fleshed out character that the player just happens to be able to customize without the pretense of being a self-insert, or totally make the character silent and act as a mirror to bounce other characters off of. A character like that can work very well in such a setting, I've seen it done. I am not against the idea of self-insert characters all together, I've seen some excellent ones. Just... not like this. I really hope this doesn't become a thing with FE, because since MU is such a good concept on the gameplay front, I predict it is not going anywhere anytime soon.
I think the best moments where the fourth wall was addressed was actually in the conversations with other lords after the legacy character DLC chapters. They reminded me of the FE7 tactician, which was usually used as an excuse to get the lords doing something close to a monologue, which is sort of the case in these chapters as well. In fact, the conversation with DLC Lyn made me get a little warm and fuzzy because of the acknowledgement of the FE7 tactician in a similar style to one of those conversations, which made it feel like something of a love letter to western FE fans. I feel like that is the best way FE has ever handled it, and FE7 didn't have to worry about making the tactician look like a bonehead when they complimented their tactics because the proof was in the fact that the game was progressing! Not to mention it got far less frequent when there were more important things on the table for the lords to talk about.

Allow me to hit some positives before stopping. I really love MU's clothing. I love the designs of all of the Plegians to varying degrees, and I think that the stylized additions of Grima's eyes to certain areas such as the mark of Grima, MU's sleeves, and Henry's collar are just such great design choices, along with other trends between the costumes ad some hints of culture that I like a lot. MU also has a great theme that gets lots of variations depending on the situation, my favorites being Id Purpose and Id Dilemma. And speaking of Id Dilemma, I wish we saw more of the Hireophant before the end of the game. I like the hooded MU design, and on this mysterious doppelganger, it adds more silent visual mystery that could have substantiated the story a lot more. It would also be interesting to see more of this character who still had all of their memories intact compared to the amnesiac MU. Maybe bring in some nature vs. nurture in there to go along with the whole destiny/I CHALLENGE MY FATE thing.


Can you believe that this post was originally longer? I was gonna post it yesterday before my internet farted out on me and i lost it. Well, if you got this far, I hope you enjoyed it.