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 Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:37 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:52 am
Yani would probably be one of the better Fa'e to fulfill that sort of position, actually. He's definitely got that right jive to handle the position, at least. (And is probably patient enough to put up with whatever crap Roth throws into the mix XD)
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:07 pm
I could see some of the darker Fa'e who like the thought of having minions also being interested in influencing the development of LCs and other young, impressionable Fa'e. Come to the DARK side... You know -- and all that.
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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:03 pm
kalindara The feeling I'm getting is that the no-metaplot-discussion is less of "you have no say, none, we've already done it all", and more of a "we have more important priorities before getting into the RP/metaplot". This, exactly. The bit of plot that Kochi and Pukio will run is to tie up and free us from the tangled mess that the original metaplot became. Anything that happens beyond that is up to us all. smile But. Yeah, for right now - this is me being selfish, I admit - trying to figure out from a shop manager perspective about how to get growings, art, and management going again is currently more critical to me. (And the art/growing thing has been the biggest source of stress.) My request wasn't so much for "no discussion EVARRRRS" as "I would like to settle those things first and I, personally, would like to gather people's opinions on those issues and decide them before we move into other topics." That's all. I apologize if I didn't explain that motivation adequately. sweatdrop Re: Art - I see most people are tilting towards the 'pool of staff artists' idea. Some people brought up what the GMFC has been doing as a workable structure - we have several Guardians who do art over at that shop (and Junyi!)... how have you guys found that structure works from the inside? (And, uh. Would you mind us using that structure if people end up liking it? >>; Heh.) I agree that finding one's own art could be daunting for new questers, and I do think that the concerns about perceived elitism and drama potential do have some validity. We will need to pool resources to support staff artists, naturally... but I am thinking that is really the better option. (Also the fund-gathering and such could be a community effort, which would be fun.) Finding artists is, of course, another concern, but that's going to be a problem no matter what, whether people tackle it on an individual basis or we go after it together. Re: New Fa'e - I honestly haven't even put on my personal radar yet. I mean, obviously it's an issue, but my brain has been much more consumed with getting the foundations above hashed out before making any other decisions. This isn't to say we shouldn't discuss it! But I really would be leery about moving forward with such plans until we do have a solid foundation for continued art/growing operations. (Note: People who have promised second gen Fa'e that I've already talked to - you guys are still golden, as always. I'm not gonna take away what's already been approved.) Re: Shop management: I want help. Sweet mercy lordy do I want help. I think the team idea is a fantastic one. What Arrien said was along the lines of what I think: Arrien 2.) I'd like to keep a brief chain of management, but involve a decent number of people. Probably three levels; Sosi as the authority, a couple people that can move things without constantly seeking permission, and a couple more people that are around to help out (new thread Sheriffs, essentially; community role models that might not have the time to organize things, but can still benefit the community by helping people out with questions and such). Because I don't think I need to know every little thing, and my own busy-ness could seriously hamper things going forward, as Anya's absence did for quite some time. I don't want that to happen. (That sense of being paralyzed by one person's silence is terrible, I didn't enjoy it! And I don't want to cause that for you guys any more than I already have.) If we go with the staff artists idea, one group would probably be those artists - with someone serving as a coordinator, perhaps, to manage growing requests and so on? I'm not sure how many other teams/groups would be needed. Expanding on that facet would be helpful, I think. (On the surface: someone to coordinate/announce community efforts and plots would indeed be fantastic... and so on, though I think maybe getting the art/growing foundation more firmed up would also crystallize our specific needs in terms of people?) Anyway, that's my thoughts on your thoughts, uh. My preference would be to tackle the art/growing idea first, get that sorted out, then move on down the line. I apologize if I missed any other ideas/suggestions - was a lot to read all at once. XD But. Thank you, guys. <3 And thank you Lady Adamant for that survey, it was very helpful. heart Also kind of reassuring, since it seems the majority opinion dovetails with my own, so I know I'm not out in the weeds in terms of what I'm thinking. XD
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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:29 pm
Sosiqui Re: Art - I see most people are tilting towards the 'pool of staff artists' idea. Some people brought up what the GMFC has been doing as a workable structure - we have several Guardians who do art over at that shop (and Junyi!)... how have you guys found that structure works from the inside? (And, uh. Would you mind us using that structure if people end up liking it? >>; Heh.) Purely from a selfish, egostroking point of view, I find it works pretty well! But there are little kinks I've been rather reluctant to address because, well, I'm the kind of person who wants to please everyone and just tends to stick their head in the sand every time something that challenges the system comes along. So, PURELY AS AN INSIDE VIEW sort of thing, here are the specific troubles I've come across. People not wanting a particular artist. Everyone has their own tastes in art, and I'd made it kind of a point to have AS MUCH VARIETY AS I COULD NAB in the shop because I am the kind of weirdo who likes EXTREME variation in art. But everyone has styles they do and do not like, and because there's such a variety in the GMFC, there will always end up being at least one artist whose style does not jive with a particular appointment. I don't know how this will work in Fa'e. I really don't. In the GMFC, I basically said "You're probably going to get an artist you might not love for a stage. This is how it happens, and if you STILL WANT AN APPOINTMENT after this, you've been warned." For new appointments? I'd like to think this is going very well. I've spoken to a few people about this, and they've been generally understanding, especially since I've tried my hardest to be up front about this. For old appointments, though, I've run into some sticker situations. People shelling out X amount of gold for an appointment by Y person who is no longer on Gaia, etc. People are generally more "enhhhhh" about the situation changing on them. I mean, really, it's like, you go into a game with a certain set of rules, and they just CHANGE in the middle of the game? Kind of "ARRRGH"-inducing. I've given a couple of refunds, and I've had to negotiate a couple of arrangements with outside artists. With one appointment in particular, an outside artist was hired by the parents themselves, and I'd agreed to pick up the tab, so to speak. Artists wanting their own auction/dedicated appointment. I've had a few artists asking me if they could art an appointment themselves or have their own auction. I've had a few parents asking if an artist could have their own auction/appointment. But the team system really doesn't work for that. The idea is that an artist gets paid when they finish a stage, and the rest of the gold stays in the mule in case of emergency (like needing to refund gold.) The reason the art team system was put in place in the first place was because there have been several instances of artists going AWOL (most of you may recall that I was the worst offender), and Kamiki needing to scramble to find and pay new artists out of her own pockets. And it's just something that I personally do not want to risk happening again. If the time between growths was a matter of weeks, not months or even YEARS, then that would be one thing. When the GMFC first started out, a normal pregnancy lasted one month, infant and toddler stages went by fairly quickly, and by the time I got my appointment four months after the GMFC opened, there were already teens. At that rate, I'd assumed the adult stage would be reached inside a year. If THAT were the case, then having one person be responsible for an entire appointment would be no problem. But now that we're aware it could take FIVE YEARS or more to fully develop a character, would it really be fair to demand that kind of commitment from artists? Final thoughts?I think the team system could really work for future Fa'e, as long as questers are fully aware that each stage is going to basically be an artistic grab bag. But for PRESENT Fa'e? Quite possibly not so much. I'm sure there are some of us who would like to use the system, and that would be cool. But I also think that those of us with existing Fa'e should have the option to make other arrangements. Random other thought:Are we still allowed to have like, mid-stage edits to art reflected in certs? ie: Riven's child stage's clothing addition? I wonder how THAT would work. >>
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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:00 pm
That's my concern, and why I would like the option for us to fund our own art, if we are so inclined. It's great to have a group of staff artists, but for those of us who want to get our own art, I think we should have that option.
And re: the HQ. Guelmy lives there, and is probably not going to ever move out. He doesn't speak English well enough to work anywhere, and is actually even in elementary school to develop his learning to a point to where he can interact with society on an intellectual level matching his age.
His guardian flat out refuses to do anything to help, whatsoever. If she could kill him and go home, she would, but she can't. So she's stuck, and refuses to help him with anything ever.
So unless someone set him up with a house that he didn't have to ever pay for, he can't feasibly ever move out of the HQ. He will probably build a hut in the garden at some point though. Mara's driving him crazy.
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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:13 pm
What Nessy said. Having already had the majority of stages done by Anya, and with Adult being the next stage, I would really prefer to source my own artist and I can be 100% happy with what I consider to be a vital stage. Whether that means I ask a specific one of the staff artists, or go commishing from DA or the Gaia art forums...
I just agree that those of us who already have some Anya art for our fa'e had certain expectations and deserve the option of being very picky, if we want to be.
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:10 am
I think that the blended option is the way to go; allow people to outsource (as long as they maintain certain standards), but get an in-house system for the rest of the Fa'e, with the idea of having all new Fa'e go through the in-house system. This allows us not to force any artists down the throats of those who don't want them, while still maintaining a quality standard and providing for the Guardians who can't afford fancy art in the best manner possible.
So, the management system as it is currently envisioned in my mind:
Managers: Anya and Sosi
RP Managers: Probably two slots, potentially three, so that something's always going on. Handles event planning (i.e. Prom), metaplot development, working with Fa'e who need GM help, running NPCs, etc.
Art Managers: Handling the artists for the most part, and overseeing growings, new Fa'e, figuring out when/how contests should be done. Probably only one person here to avoid confusion and communication issues.
Sheriffs: Three to five active people around the thread to answer questions, greet newcomers, foster activity. These people should probably also have moderator positions in the Fa'e Questers guild, and be responsible for the sort of stuff that Cere, Kali and I have been there - accepting new applicants, answering questions, stamping, etc. Otherwise, split the group into two, Thread Sheriffs and Quester Sheriffs.
And that's probably as far as it needs to go. Artists could probably hold any other position on here. The main thing that needs to be addressed is activity among shop management; it's easy for people to get stuff in RL and drift off, so having a set of standards which could be bent, but not broken, to make sure that the thread has the support it needs would be good. Maybe nothing as strict as a quota, but some way that people can kindly say, "this job isn't getting done", and have someone new voted in. (Or, alternatively, have people at the lower positions get voted in anew every 4-6 months?)
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