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 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:04 pm
HistoryWak I didn't say respect the book I said be sensitive to the fact that I believe in it. I'm not telling you to respect the book. I agree with what else you said.
I don't understand why you get so offended/mood ruined when I talk about religion. You act as if you are one Jewish person in a room full of Catholics who are condemning you.
I believe in God/Heaven too, and have a strong Faith. There's just some negative aspects about religion.
I don't see how posting "Holidays are commercialized" and "A book wasn't written by God" gets you all defensive. You know holidays are commercialized, and you know God didn't write the bible.
I follow/believe in what I think God wants me to do. I don't, however, believe in a set of rules/stories written by people who tell me what God wants.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:07 pm
Ace Paladin Wak, you should know I was baptized Catholic, and took part in every ceremony, communion, conformation, etc available. except Marriage and funeral, which undoubtedly, I'm going to do someday.
And, I wasn't criticizing religion. I was replying to Arvis, that, IMHO, you shouldn't hate holidays because of religious factual errors/flaws... and that most, quote "religious holidays" are mainstreamed/commercialized. I know many atheists that celebrate Christmas.
Christmas, nay, all holidays, should be about getting together with loved ones... not who was born/who was killed on a particular day thousands of years ago.
And, I shouldn't "have respect" for a book. It's a book. Written by a human/people. People shouldn't shape there lives around such a thing. I'm not going to hell for wearing a shirt made of more than 2 fibers... I'm not going to hell for eating pig meat, and I'm not going to sell my future daughter into slavery. Believing in something, i.e. Faith is what's important. Not a set of rules created by a man(the bible's authors, the pope, etc).
Faith > Religion.
You act like I'm persecuting you, when in all actuality, I was talking to Arvis. Like Blues, I'm Agnostic... but have some form of Faith.
I believe in God, Heaven, and being a good person. That's all faith is. that's more important than rules/regulations/corrupt organizations.
I want to be judged on who I am, and what I accomplish in life. Not where I was at Sunday morning and how closely I followed a set of rules. Actually, whether or not a holiday is religious is beside the point. If you do believe in the God of the Bible, it's good to know the religious origins of these holidays so you can decide for yourself whether you feel comfortable celebrating them. God would (obviously) know these origins and have His own viewpoint on them, so it's good to try and figure out what that viewpoint is if you care about that sort of thing. And I don't hate holidays. I just don't celebrate them. Like I said, this is far too crude a medium to talk about these sorts of things. mrgreen But, Ace, I'm glad that you have faith. It's good to have some, regardless of belief. And it's cool that you don't mind talking about it. I love talking about religion. I hate debating it. When it becomes a debate, I usually just shut up/leave.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:11 pm
Arvis_Jaggamar Actually, whether or not a holiday is religious is beside the point. Arvis_Jaggamar Like I said, this is far too crude a medium to talk about these sorts of things. mrgreen But, Ace, I'm glad that you have faith. It's good to have some, regardless of belief. And it's cool that you don't mind talking about it. I love talking about religion. I hate debating it. When it becomes a debate, I usually just shut up/leave.
True. xD
I hope to meet you in the ED one day. You're an intelligent person. It beats starting a convo with "OMG, SONY SUX CAUS DEY DIDN'T PORT HAYLO 2"
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:14 pm
Ace Paladin Arvis_Jaggamar Actually, whether or not a holiday is religious is beside the point. Arvis_Jaggamar Like I said, this is far too crude a medium to talk about these sorts of things. mrgreen
True. xD
I hope to meet you in the ED one day. You're an intelligent person. It beats debating with "OMG, SONY SUX CAUS DEY DIDN'T PORT HAYLO 2"I don't mind talking about it either for the most part (like that day over your house). I wouldn't mind going there one day. I went to the ED before and debates can get really heated in there. You need some Aspirin handy before entering. People can be really passionate about their side in debates and things can really get tense there. lol
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:18 pm
HistoryWak I know I agree with you. I just took it the wrong way that's all. I shouldn't have. I should have thought about what I was reading first. Let's end this before someone comes in and makes this a full fledged religious debate. lol HistoryWak @Arvis: I hate religious debates. talk2hand That and politics are the worst type of debates to get in to.
True. Story.
"My God's right"
"No, my God's right."
Or
"Omg, republikanz r teh lame11 go clinton111"
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:21 pm
Ace Paladin HistoryWak I know I agree with you. I just took it the wrong way that's all. I shouldn't have. I should have thought about what I was reading first. Let's end this before someone comes in and makes this a full fledged religious debate. lol HistoryWak @Arvis: I hate religious debates. talk2hand That and politics are the worst type of debates to get in to.
True. Story.
"My God's right"
"No, my God's right."
Or
"Omg, republikanz r teh lame11 go clinton111"That's alright. I understand you weren't and I understand what you mean now. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:00 pm
Well, I don't mean don't talk about it at all, but I agree with Wak about the whole "no political/religious topics" for this specific guild. It gets off topic of the thread...so I think we should take such topics to the general discussion(not ED like Wak said, but it's the only subforum we have to allow such topics). So people won't be offended on a widescale, and by going to such threads, they accept risks of going into arguments and disagreements. Under those conditions, people will expect those type of discussions.
@The Death Blues Mix
Woo! Fellow Agnostic mrgreen *high five* Sorry sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:28 pm
Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one.
I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism?
It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong.
Science ftw.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:39 pm
X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw. If you just believe in Science, Science is Ignostic(not Agnostic) at it's core. Science does not try to prove or disprove deities, and Ignostic stance is to say that a deity needs to be defined before going about proving or disproving one. If you don't believe in one, you're an Atheist(A meaning without in greek, and theist meaning belief in deity/deities I believe in greek). If you refuse to take a stance because there is not a substantial amount of evidence for either side you're Agnostic(A meaning without again and gnostic meaning knowledge of deities). If you don't believe what a deity is, is properly defined, you're Ignostic. I myself am a Model Agnostic meaning I don't know if god(s) exist or not because there has been no evidence. Just like there was no evidence for Atoms or Cells back when they were thought of, or some other stuff that turned out incorrect such as the sun revolving around the earth or the earth being flat. Neither side has evidence even if the burden of proof lies with the theists. So I believe if the human race lives and advances long enough, through Science we will be able to get the answer. Now, this is seriously getting off topic...if continued, the thread either needs to be locked, or a new thread must be made in the general chat subforum.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 pm
X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw.
Agnosticism is flexibility. Zen, if you will, should you let it be.
When you consider that in each religion there are incredible similarities, along with each culture carrying similar themes. In some ways Jesus and his teachings were more Buddhists and Hindu than Jew.
On the other side of the fence science in it's attempt to prove everything blinds itself to simple truths and fogs up the picture more than need be. Both ends take too much energy to convince otherwise or to even get them to entertain the idea that there may be more to it. When you consider how long it took evolution to be accepted and the fact that it's still debated or the idiocy of the people that believe in religion all the way.
In some regards science IS a religion unto itself. Theories thrown back and forth, attempts to persuade people to your beliefs, etc. etc.
Play Bioshock.
With that in mind neither for the win. Flexible neutrality in belief offers a flow of thoughts that could bring about revolution in understanding both spiritually and logically. The freedom to have you're own idea.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:51 pm
Canis Lupus the LoneWolf X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw. If you just believe in Science, Science is Ignostic(not Agnostic) at it's core. Science does not try to prove or disprove deities, and Ignostic stance is to say that a deity needs to be defined before going about proving or disproving one. If you don't believe in one, you're an Atheist(A meaning without in greek, and theist meaning belief in deity/deities I believe in greek). If you refuse to take a stance because there is not a substantial amount of evidence for either side you're Agnostic(A meaning without again and gnostic meaning knowledge of deities). If you don't believe what a deity is, is properly defined, you're Ignostic. I myself am a Model Agnostic meaning I don't know if god(s) exist or not because there has been no evidence. Just like there was no evidence for Atoms or Cells back when they were thought of, or some other stuff that turned out incorrect such as the sun revolving around the earth. Neither side has evidence even if the burden of proof lies with the theists. So I believe if the human race lives and advances long enough, through Science we will be able to get the answer. Now, this is seriously getting off topic...if continued, the thread either needs to be locked, or a new thread must be made in the general chat subforum. I'm not saying it's impossible for a deity to be existent, so therefore I guess I'm not Ignostic. I guess I'm an Agnostic Atheist, because I don't believe in a god, and I don't take any sides due to lack of evidence.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:55 pm
The Death Blues Mix X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw.
Agnosticism is flexibility. Zen, if you will, should you let it be.
When you consider that in each religion there are incredible similarities, along with each culture carrying similar themes. In some ways Jesus and his teachings were more Buddhists and Hindu than Jew.
On the other side of the fence science in it's attempt to prove everything blinds itself to simple truths and fogs up the picture more than need be. Both ends take too much energy to convince otherwise or to even get them to entertain the idea that there may be more to it. When you consider how long it took evolution to be accepted and the fact that it's still debated or the idiocy of the people that believe in religion all the way.
In some regards science IS a religion unto itself. Theories thrown back and forth, attempts to persuade people to your beliefs, etc. etc.
Play Bioshock.
With that in mind neither for the win. Flexible neutrality in belief offers a flow of thoughts that could bring about revolution in understanding both spiritually and logically. The freedom to have you're own idea.My guess is that you're trying to make a reference to Rapture? While living in a world where man can be truly free of things that hold him back from being all he is, such as religion or law, does sound promising, it was a dream doomed to end in disaster for Ryan, and he just took it too far. Lawlessness =/= paradise. It results in mass death, destruction, and crime. Lol, we went from my love for my regulars to religion to BioShock.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:56 pm
X-Legends-Never-Die-X Canis Lupus the LoneWolf X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw. If you just believe in Science, Science is Ignostic(not Agnostic) at it's core. Science does not try to prove or disprove deities, and Ignostic stance is to say that a deity needs to be defined before going about proving or disproving one. If you don't believe in one, you're an Atheist(A meaning without in greek, and theist meaning belief in deity/deities I believe in greek). If you refuse to take a stance because there is not a substantial amount of evidence for either side you're Agnostic(A meaning without again and gnostic meaning knowledge of deities). If you don't believe what a deity is, is properly defined, you're Ignostic. I myself am a Model Agnostic meaning I don't know if god(s) exist or not because there has been no evidence. Just like there was no evidence for Atoms or Cells back when they were thought of, or some other stuff that turned out incorrect such as the sun revolving around the earth. Neither side has evidence even if the burden of proof lies with the theists. So I believe if the human race lives and advances long enough, through Science we will be able to get the answer. Now, this is seriously getting off topic...if continued, the thread either needs to be locked, or a new thread must be made in the general chat subforum. I'm not saying it's impossible for a deity to be existent, so therefore I guess I'm not Ignostic. I guess I'm an Agnostic Atheist, because I don't believe in a god, and I don't take any sides due to lack of evidence. Ah, well, that's settled then. Like Blues I believe both are wrong unless drastic evidence from either side is presented. Anyway...can we get back on topic? Please? gonk (Or at least make a thread in the general chat subforum...come one guys...)
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:00 pm
Canis Lupus the LoneWolf X-Legends-Never-Die-X Canis Lupus the LoneWolf X-Legends-Never-Die-X Religious debates are the absolutely worst kind, and I refuse to EVER get into one. I don't believe in anything, I believe in science. A study by man about the world man lives in. That's what I believe in. Would that be called Atheism? It's always people arguing their religion back and forth, saying their religion is right because they chose to practice it or were brought up practicing it, without ever hearing the other sides of the story because it goes against what they choose or are made to believe. And the arguments never go anywhere because in the end, no one can give flawless proof that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Science ftw. If you just believe in Science, Science is Ignostic(not Agnostic) at it's core. Science does not try to prove or disprove deities, and Ignostic stance is to say that a deity needs to be defined before going about proving or disproving one. If you don't believe in one, you're an Atheist(A meaning without in greek, and theist meaning belief in deity/deities I believe in greek). If you refuse to take a stance because there is not a substantial amount of evidence for either side you're Agnostic(A meaning without again and gnostic meaning knowledge of deities). If you don't believe what a deity is, is properly defined, you're Ignostic. I myself am a Model Agnostic meaning I don't know if god(s) exist or not because there has been no evidence. Just like there was no evidence for Atoms or Cells back when they were thought of, or some other stuff that turned out incorrect such as the sun revolving around the earth. Neither side has evidence even if the burden of proof lies with the theists. So I believe if the human race lives and advances long enough, through Science we will be able to get the answer. Now, this is seriously getting off topic...if continued, the thread either needs to be locked, or a new thread must be made in the general chat subforum. I'm not saying it's impossible for a deity to be existent, so therefore I guess I'm not Ignostic. I guess I'm an Agnostic Atheist, because I don't believe in a god, and I don't take any sides due to lack of evidence. Ah, well, that's settled then. Like Blues I believe both are wrong unless drastic evidence from either side is presented. Anyway...can we get back on topic? Please? gonk (Or at least make a thread in the general chat subforum...come one guys...) Lol.
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