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Autumn_Blade

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:18 pm


chunky and beastlike is just so uneldar. they never really describe him as large and stumpy anyways. they just say that hes a tall being with magma for blood and rocks for skin. besides, being a *conversion* which by definition is to change something around, im allowed a bit of artistic leeway. i like my avatar as a lithe gracefull killing machine, as it best fits my perception of the eldar.

from your own post, yeah, khaine probably would be acrobatic and stuff. that said, the *avatar* of khaine, which by definition, is representitive of him and is of his essence, could likewise speculated to be lithe.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:01 pm


Faeruithir88
King Kento
Faeruithir88
Autumn_Blade
oh yeah. i also have the Avatar. however, i didnt like the original avatar cos he looked too much like an angry tiki-man, so i had bought the Necron's C'tan Nightbringer model and painted him up to look like some kinda lithe eldar killing machine, and thats what i use when i dont feel like fielding aforementioned enraged tiki-being.

...much to my dismay, Forgeworld proceeded to crank out thier own beautiful splendiforous Avatar model. even if you can see his a**. but thats not something youd call him out on. he'd hurt you.


I don't think an Avatar is meant to be particularly lithe, it's a creaky magma beast that smashes stuff into the ground with a great big sword.


Eldar god. Should be lithe. Also it doesnt have to be a big sword. Could be a spear, axe, etc. I believe the original fluff said the wailing doom changed every stroke and was always a different weapon.


Why should it be lithe? I'm sure Khaine himself was as acrobatic as a Harlequin, but the Avatar is just a chunk of him stuck into a warrior in retrospect, and he'd probably have nowhere near the level of ability needed to use it to it's fullest extent.

I also think that a clunky war-beast better fits the description and role of the Avatar.


At the same timeits an ELDAR god. It inspires its people and represents them. You have to think that the eldar are only going to be impressed by soemthing that is eldar in nature, theyre pretty self absorbed. Sheer brutality and force isnt that impressive to the eldar, so their war god would most likely represent that. It having to do with war means nothing as its the Eldar concept of war which is alien and thus different from our concept of war. So to us brutal, hulking, massive, and so on, to them dextrous, skilled, swift. Just like to humans the color of anger and gore, and well blood is red, whereas according to the fire warrior novel for the tau its blue, like their blood. Theyre alien, so our concepts dont necessarily apply.

King Kento


Autumn_Blade

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:15 pm


thats about what i was gettin at, yeah.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:24 am


I doesn't matter how you represent any model in 40k just that you remain consistant.
Come on who wouldn't want a Advatar Ws10 Bs4 S6 T6 W4 I6 A4 Ld10 immune to flamer and melta weapon and weilds a melta gun and makes all unit fearless within 12. so who care what it looks like.

Wraith86


A.R.G.U.S Mykal

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:04 am


Zane86
I doesn't matter how you represent any model in 40k just that you remain consistant.
Come on who wouldn't want a Advatar Ws10 Bs4 S6 T6 W4 I6 A4 Ld10 immune to flamer and melta weapon and weilds a melta gun and makes all unit fearless within 12. so who care what it looks like.



Well I do for one. And Faeruthir. And quite a lot of people if Forgeworld made a model for it, and priced it so generously (compared to their other stuff).
I think that the correct answer to your question is

"Whoever sees Warhammer minis as more than toy soldiers."


-Mykal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:42 pm


The whole not caring reminds me of Mr. Carnifex. xd

Marcus McFlufferson


Tableau

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:57 pm


King Kento
Faeruithir88
King Kento
Faeruithir88
Autumn_Blade
oh yeah. i also have the Avatar. however, i didnt like the original avatar cos he looked too much like an angry tiki-man, so i had bought the Necron's C'tan Nightbringer model and painted him up to look like some kinda lithe eldar killing machine, and thats what i use when i dont feel like fielding aforementioned enraged tiki-being.

...much to my dismay, Forgeworld proceeded to crank out thier own beautiful splendiforous Avatar model. even if you can see his a**. but thats not something youd call him out on. he'd hurt you.


I don't think an Avatar is meant to be particularly lithe, it's a creaky magma beast that smashes stuff into the ground with a great big sword.


Eldar god. Should be lithe. Also it doesnt have to be a big sword. Could be a spear, axe, etc. I believe the original fluff said the wailing doom changed every stroke and was always a different weapon.


Why should it be lithe? I'm sure Khaine himself was as acrobatic as a Harlequin, but the Avatar is just a chunk of him stuck into a warrior in retrospect, and he'd probably have nowhere near the level of ability needed to use it to it's fullest extent.

I also think that a clunky war-beast better fits the description and role of the Avatar.


At the same timeits an ELDAR god. It inspires its people and represents them. You have to think that the eldar are only going to be impressed by soemthing that is eldar in nature, theyre pretty self absorbed. Sheer brutality and force isnt that impressive to the eldar, so their war god would most likely represent that. It having to do with war means nothing as its the Eldar concept of war which is alien and thus different from our concept of war. So to us brutal, hulking, massive, and so on, to them dextrous, skilled, swift. Just like to humans the color of anger and gore, and well blood is red, whereas according to the fire warrior novel for the tau its blue, like their blood. Theyre alien, so our concepts dont necessarily apply.
yes, the eldar warrior is impressed by wild strength and ferocity channeled into swift precice movements. Based on the avatar's WS10, I would say he is about as swift in combat as they get.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:53 am


Shining spears have a defined role now with S6 lance weapons (although with 6inch range) and S6 power weapon on the charge. and now at the price of an eldar guardian jetbike in current book. Exarch can a S8 lance (also 6inch range) and alway counts as a S8 power weapon in combat and can take the skills Hit and Run as well as Skilled rider.

Wraith86


Lozt_1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:01 pm


-- Shadiron posted an excellent review of the new Eldar Codex in the Games Development forum on the GW forum. I figured I'd go ahead and do some copy-and-pasting to put it here. Everything following this paragraph is Shadiron's review. Enjoy!

shadiron
Hi everyone,

Well, the new Eldar Codex arrived yesterday (in the form of the Eldar Army box). I must say that I like most parts of the codex, but not all.

First, the weapons. There aren't many changes in terms of functionality, but there are some. Giving the Scatter Laser a straight 4 shots is an improvement. Reducing the Star Cannon shots with 1 is too bad, but I can live with it. Most of the prices of the heavy weapons have gone down, making them much more affordable and reasonable. The Shurican Cannon especially has dropped 10 or 15 points in price across the board. The Missile Launcher is now decently priced. The most expensive weapon is now the Bright Lance, which given its excellent anti-tank abilities is only right.

The rules are better worked out, and follow the Universal Special Rules when abilities were already quite close to them to begin with. Some awkward balance issues were fixed (like the dreaded Swooping Hawk Exarch) and I can honestly say that most choises are pretty balanced now. A shame that the Armoury had to go, but its not like Eldar had many choises in the first place.

Next, a small comment on the units.
Rating ++ means Excellent improvement
Rating + means decent improvement
Rating = means about equal to the older version
Rating - means slight deterioration
Rating -- means that the unit in question has lost quite a lot of its power with respect to the older version.
[HQ] Autarch
Finally a good HQ choise that at least has a few options and can stand its own in a fight. Rating:++

[HQ] Farseer
More expensive than the older one, although some items are now standard equipment rather than being bought. With an extra power to choose from and a few nasty anti-psycker items the Farseer is now more than just a walking Mind War vehicle. A shame that it no longer has T4. Rating: +

[HQ] Warlock
No longer needing to be detached from the Farseer unit, the Warlock is now a standard upgrade to Guardian units. The Warlock has changed little, however some equipment is now standard rather than optional, making the Warlock more expensive. One good change is that Warlocks don't NEED to buy a psychic power if they don't want to. No change in powers, although Augment is no longer there. Rating: =

[HQ] The Avatar of Khaine
A lot more expensive than the older version, nevertheless the Avatar has improved a lot. While it can't go toe-to-toe with a Greater Daemon of Khorne just yet (it lacks the number of attacks), it nevertheless packs a huge wallop. Oh, and vehicles better stay out of range otherwise they get burned to a crisp. Rating: ++

[HQ] Phoenix Lords & Special Characters
You no longer need to have a minimum 2000 points or to ask your opponent for permission to use them. They are pretty good, but otherwise are still more or less the same. Rating: +

[ELITE] Striking Scorpions
One of the few units to loose some of their power. The rules have been simplified a bit, and the Scorpions have lost the option to take a S8 Power Fist and Haywire grenades. The Biting Blade is a lot more nasty now, although still not a power weapon. They are good at chewing up Horde-type armies, but don't send them to battle marines; they wont be able to beat them. Rating: -

[ELITE] Howling Banshees
The Banshee Mask has been altered to reflect the new Ini-based rules in close combat. War Shout improved only a bit, and still needs a failed Morale test to affect the enemy. Acrobatic is also not improved. The Exarch did get a nasty throwing weapon as an additional weapon choise. No leaping from a moving Wave Serpent though. Rating: =

[ELITE] Fire Dragons
Slightly cheaper than the older version, this squad also had some options removed and added as standard wargear (like Melta Bombs). Fusion Guns have gone up in Strength so you have a good choise to destroy a tank even from 12" away. The Tank Hunter special ability now counts for the entire unit rather than just the Exarch. Rating: ++

[ELITE] Harlequins
The ability to take a Harlequin Troop in your army is definitely welcomed. There is as yet no option to take any Harlequin characters though. The Harlequins are nasty, althought not as powerfull as they were in the unofficial codex. Rating: ++

[ELITE] Wraithguard
They are now T6 for the same cost, but their weapons have become slightly worse against tanks. It does explicitly call upon the "Instant Death" special rule when a 6 to wound is rolled.

[TROOPS] Dire Avengers
Excellent abilities, an 18" Shurican Catapult, an Exarch that can select some nifty abilities, excellent Exarch powers which affect the whole unit. And all for the same price as before. Dire Avengers can fullfill quite a few battlefield roles, and can definitely hold their own in close combat even against Space Marine tactical units. Rating: +++

[TROOPS] Rangers
No changes at all here. Rating: =

[TROOPS] Guardians
Minimum number of models has gone up to 10. Heavy weapon platforms are now a lot cheaper and don't cost the unit their FoF move. The price for special weapons in Storm units has gone up. Rating: =

[TROOPS] Guardian Jetbikes
They have become a lot cheaper, a troop choise, shurican cannons are now a mere 10 points. They are an excellent mobile choise now, able to skim on the battlefield and support the advance like they should. Rating: ++

[FA] Shining Spears
Also a lot cheaper, the Laser Lance is now very nasty on the charge (like it should). They also can be used as a Lance against tanks and still pack quite a punch when used to shoot at an enemy infantry unit. No option to give the Exarch a Bright Lance though he does get a weapon that is similar but with much shorter range. They can now disengage from close combat as well, meaning those lances can become very nasty weapons. Rating: ++

[FA] Warp Spiders
Death Spinners have become Assault weapons, and the unit may withdraw from close combat. However, the +2 charge bonus is gone. Rating: =

[FA] Swooping Hawks
Able to deepstrike multiple times during a battle, the mobility of the Hawks is now unsurpassed anywhere. They get Haywire grenades so can be very nasty against Tanks. The Exarch however is no longer the close combat monster it used to be, and the Lasblasters are still S3. Rating: =

[FA] Vypers
The cost for the weapons have come down a lot, so you can have a Vyper with 2 Shurican Cannons for a mere 60 points. The point costs for vehicle upgrades is still the same as that for the Falcon (ie too expensive for a fragile vehicle). Rating: +

[HS] Support Weapon Battery
Vibro cannons are more nasty now. D-cannons are slightly weaker against vehicles and the Shadow Weaver is an excellent anti-horde weapon. Rating: =

[HS] War Walkers
They get the Scout USR now, the weapon costs have gone down and the useless energy field has been removed. They can take Spirit Stones now, but otherwise they are the same. Rating: =

[HS] Dark Reapers
Cheaper and more hevily armoured, the Dark Reapers are back with a vengeance. Options are still the same, but the Exarch can now choose either an ELM or a very nasty Tempest Launcher.
Rating: ++

[HS] Falcon
The random number of shots on the Pulse Laser is now gone, and the weapons are mostly cheaper. There is no longer any Crystal Targeting Matrix to choose from, but on the other hand the Falcon can choose wargear to keep from being destroyed when immobilized. Holofield is more expensive though. Rating: +

[HS] Fire Prism
The new Eldar heavy tank of choise. Increased Ballistic Skill, 2 firing modes on the Prism cannon, and the ability to combine several Prism Cannon shots together into a single, large, deadly volley all make the Fire Prism the heavy tank of choise.

[HS] Wraithlord
Please, please no flaming please. Have you seen the model? It is worth buying one even if you never use them (and if you aren't using them: get your head examined!). The Wraithlord is ofcourse changed as well. It is still a T8 Monstrous Creature but a more expensive one, it can now choose to use 2 heavy weapons rather than one. It can also choose a Wraithsword to give it a better chance in close combat. Has anything made the Wraithlord weaker? Yes! It now has Wraithsight like the Wraitguard, and its number of attacks has gone down, making it more vulnerable to getting locked in close combat. It is definitely less powerfull, but with more options to choose from. Rating: +

Overall:
Most changes to the units are all understandable. The balance between all units has been restored quite a lot (at first glance ofcourse) and all the units will be a viable choise for most armies. The only disadvantage to the codex is the lack of any craftworld-specific rules or even rules to create your own craftworld (like IG and SM).

All in all: the Eldar are back with a vengeance!

Almost forgot this one:

[TRANSPORT] Wave Serpent
Cheaper and with a bigger capacity, the Wave Serpent is no longer too expensive considdering it cannot capture any objectives. Weapons are more fairly priced, and its energy field is still there. A Wave Serpent with Bright Lances is still equally expensive though. Rating: +
Can't wait to advance order mine on the first.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:17 pm


i think an avatar represents the sheer power of their god. the eldar are a graceful lithe race i mean you just have to look at a farseer to see that but an avatar seem big and unweildy. The eldar way of war is so diffirent to the imperiums which is: anything to achieve a goal
The eldars is: a sword in the right place can acheive more than a thousand guns.
What has this got to do with the avatar?
Well i guess it kinda represents their motto sometimes a large powerfull "monster" is needed to acheive a task and if used in the right way it can be as precise as a bright lance or a well directed mind war

Also is it just me that loves the eldar Seer Council i mean i really love them, On Dow they're good coz they can chew through anything but in the actual mini model game they are just so good i've never played a game with an eldar army without a seer council even though sometimes its meant they don't do much

Malarauko

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Autumn_Blade

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:39 pm


the right tool for the right job, i suppose.

like i said, i play ulthwe, so i get a seer council. best thing in the world. three farseers and x amount of warlocks. a bit expensive, but youre getting three HQs in the space of one. gotta love mind war.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:44 am


Autumn_Blade
the right tool for the right job, i suppose.

like i said, i play ulthwe, so i get a seer council. best thing in the world. three farseers and x amount of warlocks. a bit expensive, but youre getting three HQs in the space of one. gotta love mind war.
the seer council is gone. So good luck.

Lozt_1


King Kento

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:38 pm


Im more than annoyed at no craftworld rules, hell make them weaker but leave them there. I like them, all of them. Iyanden, Saim Hann, Alaitoc, they all had some great character to them because of hwo odd they were. Thats very dissapointing, oh well I guess Ill have to rearrange my army list now.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:45 pm


Lozt_1
Autumn_Blade
the right tool for the right job, i suppose.

like i said, i play ulthwe, so i get a seer council. best thing in the world. three farseers and x amount of warlocks. a bit expensive, but youre getting three HQs in the space of one. gotta love mind war.
the seer council is gone. So good luck.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Autumn_Blade


Pontius Pirate

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:12 am


I wonder if Xenos Mortium is aware that Harlequins still technically have their own army list.
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