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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:35 pm
dxnwo
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:08 pm
my brother uses the tyranids (i think there are stoopid and annoying little things) anyways he cant find how many equip points can he have?
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ok my bro is just mad bc i put a fourm up on his ork fort. but ya i cant find it in my book and i have had 2 other ppl look. so can some 1 pm me and tell me.
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:46 pm
Thats because there is no limit to biomorphs. You can make your tyranids incredibly crazy but that would mean they cost a lot and still die faily easily so it is best to make your little guys good but still cheap.
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Lord Marshall Michael Thats because there is no limit to biomorphs. You can make your tyranids incredibly crazy but that would mean they cost a lot and still die faily easily so it is best to make your little guys good but still cheap. OR you could do what my brother did, and have insanely expensive hormogaunts, only to have them shot up by orks, which is like a mark of shame xD
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:16 pm
Hey I take offense to that how many of you guys can say your armies can eat threw a full squad of thousands suns tremies in one round of combat. Power to the Super gaunts. the point is nids are play as you feel army and nothing can change that. And if you find something that works go with it.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:29 am
bouchy73 Hey I take offense to that how many of you guys can say your armies can eat threw a full squad of thousands suns tremies in one round of combat. You're telling us it's difficult to butcher Thousand Sons in close combat? An ENTIRE ARMY that strikes last (despite being incapable of arming their terminators with power fists), never gets a Charge bonus, can't sweeping advance, takes extra wounds for losing a round of close combat, and is ultimately as easy to kill as two normal marines? It's not like they even get the option to run from you! rolleyes But, more importantly, what are you even taking offense to in the first place?
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:25 am
Well since they were mentioning terminators I don't see how they'd be easy to kill. Two wound 2+ save terminators would be very difficult to bring down. Striking last isn't really an issue when your fighting gaunts with two wounds and 2+ armor after all.
Thousand Sons are really meant to gut you with combi-bolters from Slow and Purposeful fire before you charge. Its not like they ever suffer reduced range.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:56 am
Certainly understood. I'm just not sure why you would use Thousand Sons terminators in that example, as opposed to say, any other terminators. In spite of their two wounds, they are going to be much, much easier to butcher than any two other terminators. There will also be fewer of them for the points, and they'll have significantly less firepower despite their greater range. Slow and purposeful gives no benefit over normal terminator armor (although there is a RAW argument to be made there) and a whole PILE of drawbacks - not the least of which is the inability to equip your termies with heavy weapons. In fact, my real point there was inherent silliness of his post. Unfortunately, we get a lot of that here. A_Random_N00b_968 ppl say meh armi sckz but stfu i hve b4
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:23 am
FlashbackJon Certainly understood. I'm just not sure why you would use Thousand Sons terminators in that example, as opposed to say, any other terminators. In spite of their two wounds, they are going to be much, much easier to butcher than any two other terminators. There will also be fewer of them for the points, and they'll have significantly less firepower despite their greater range. Slow and purposeful gives no benefit over normal terminator armor (although there is a RAW argument to be made there) and a whole PILE of drawbacks - not the least of which is the inability to equip your termies with heavy weapons. In fact, my real point there was inherent silliness of his post. Unfortunately, we get a lot of that here. A_Random_N00b_968 ppl say meh armi sckz but stfu i hve b4
Don't forget the sorceror champion. If you have a unit of Chosen, all sorcerers, with their spells and stuff, in Terminator armour....
Expensive, but phwoar.
-Mykal
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:49 am
A.R.G.U.S Mykal
Don't forget the sorceror champion. If you have a unit of Chosen, all sorcerers, with their spells and stuff, in Terminator armour....
Expensive, but phwoar.
-Mykal But those would, then, not be rubric marines, but rather be exactly as vulnerable as a normal terminator, only WAY more expensive even if they didn't take powers. That's 46 (count 'em, forty-six) points for a T4 one-wound model in terminator armor with a bolter and power weapon and no psychic powers whatsoever. I stand by my assertion that 1k Sons is the worst "terminator" example of close combat prowess he could've gone with.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:08 am
FlashbackJon A.R.G.U.S Mykal
Don't forget the sorceror champion. If you have a unit of Chosen, all sorcerers, with their spells and stuff, in Terminator armour....
Expensive, but phwoar.
-Mykal But those would, then, not be rubric marines, but rather be exactly as vulnerable as a normal terminator, only WAY more expensive even if they didn't take powers. That's 46 (count 'em, forty-six) points for a T4 one-wound model in terminator armor with a bolter and power weapon and no psychic powers whatsoever. I stand by my assertion that 1k Sons is the worst "terminator" example of close combat prowess he could've gone with.
No, you're slightly off there.
46 points for a T4 model with 2 wounds and a 2+ save that is fearless and can never fail a psychic test.
But back to Tyranids, eh?
-Mykal
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:09 am
Nope. Chosen do NOT get the Rubric. They are normal models, they pay +10 points for the Mark of Tzeentch, which makes them Sorcerors and NOTHING ELSE. You either get Rubric (which includes Daemonic Essence, Fearless, and Slow and Purposeful) OR you're turned into a Sorceror for free, never fail a psychic test, and gain access to Psychic Powers and Equipment. No model gains both, and Chosen are on the list to receive the latter.
Pg. 59, C:CSM.
Okay, NOW back to Tyranids. ninja
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:07 pm
Azimaith Well since they were mentioning terminators I don't see how they'd be easy to kill. Two wound 2+ save terminators would be very difficult to bring down. Striking last isn't really an issue when your fighting gaunts with two wounds and 2+ armor after all. Thousand Sons are really meant to gut you with combi-bolters from Slow and Purposeful fire before you charge. Its not like they ever suffer reduced range. It's not about the save itself, rather how MANY of the save you will be making. Each one has a 1/6 chance of failing. And each failed save is a fairly big chunk of points that the Chaos player loses, considering how many points they cost per terminator. And striking first is just incredibly delicious for the 'Nid player's gaunts.
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:56 pm
You have a .026 chance of killing a terminator with a single attack. You'd thus need at least 50 attacks to have a 99% chance of killing a terminator. Thats 25 gaunts or 17 hormagaunts.
So at minimum its either 125 points of spine gaunts or a 170 point hormagaunt squad.
Now make those rubric terminators (ignoring any shooting they might do) and you now need 100 attacks to drop a single terminator. I think thats rather tough if I say so myself.
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:22 pm
(Firstly, your methods for calculating a "guarantee" are way, way off, but the correct way actually works partially in your favor, so I'll ignore that correction. wink )
Actually, a hormagaunt with all available upgrades (the aforementioned "supergaunt") has a 5% chance per attack to wound a terminator, and 3 attacks on a charge. As hormagaunts are Leaping Beasts, it's unlikely that the Sons will get much shooting against a clever opposing player, even with move-and-fire combi-bolters.
I'm not saying it's not difficult (after all, the aforementioned 17 hormagaunts, even 3 points more expensive than base, will still only do 2.5 wounds on average) just that Thousand Sons are the worst choice for close combat prowess.
I mean, a five man squad of 1k Son Termies costs 210 (comparable to our 'Gaunt brood at 221 points) and will only do 3.3 wounds on average to the gaunts if you assume the gaunts don't kill any of them first! Thusly, in a perfectly average example, the 'Gaunts will do 52.5 'points' of damage, while the Termies will only return 42.9. (Naturally, after the first round of assault, the gaunt killing power goes down, but that's when the 'stealers should be showing up anyhow. wink )
Regardless, I think we both agree that he was using anecdotal evidence that has no bearing on the viability of Tyranid troops but rather his brother's aptitude with dice.
I mean, strictly speaking, the maximum number of wounds 17 hormagaunts could do on the charge is 51 - but I don't think anyone banks on that.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:24 am
FlashbackJon (Firstly, your methods for calculating a "guarantee" are way, way off, but the correct way actually works partially in your favor, so I'll ignore that correction. wink ) Theres no guarantees when your talking about randomly rolled probabilities. Also the calculations are not off. To hit a Terminator you need a 4+(50%), then a 5+ to wound (33% apprx.), followed by a 2+ save (16%) to fail. The result is .0246 Whats being misunderstood here (partly my fault) is that I didn't say *.026%* chance. They have a little under 3% (2.6) to do it. So my calculations aren't off. Its just easy to insert a % sign in there when there isn't one. Quote: Actually, a hormagaunt with all available upgrades (the aforementioned "supergaunt") has a 5% chance per attack to wound a terminator, and 3 attacks on a charge. As hormagaunts are Leaping Beasts, it's unlikely that the Sons will get much shooting against a clever opposing player, even with move-and-fire combi-bolters. The sons can move and shoot, its unlikely they *won't* get shooting at them. A super gaunt would be a waste of time anyhow, that would be a 16 point model. Your referring to a gaunt with adrenals and toxins, not all available upgrades. Thats a 66% to hit (WS5), 50% to wound (S4), and a 16% to fail a save giving you a .0528 (Or slightly more than 5%). Quote: I'm not saying it's not difficult (after all, the aforementioned 17 hormagaunts, even 3 points more expensive than base, will still only do 2.5 wounds on average) just that Thousand Sons are the worst choice for close combat prowess. We weren't referring about close combat prowess, we were saying they were very tough to kill. Just about anything is low in close combat prowess compared to tyranids. Quote: I mean, a five man squad of 1k Son Termies costs 210 (comparable to our 'Gaunt brood at 221 points) and will only do 3.3 wounds on average to the gaunts if you assume the gaunts don't kill any of them first! Thusly, in a perfectly average example, the 'Gaunts will do 52.5 'points' of damage, while the Termies will only return 42.9. (Naturally, after the first round of assault, the gaunt killing power goes down, but that's when the 'stealers should be showing up anyhow. wink ) Thats all assuming they don't just shoot at your gaunts. They can move and fire at maximum range. Thousand sons is obviously not a power house of an army. Just about anyone with a chaos codex can vouch for that, but it doesn't mean they aren't hard to kill. Quote: Regardless, I think we both agree that he was using anecdotal evidence that has no bearing on the viability of Tyranid troops but rather his brother's aptitude with dice. I mean, strictly speaking, the maximum number of wounds 17 hormagaunts could do on the charge is 51 - but I don't think anyone banks on that.
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