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If women want to be the only ones to even be able to debate the issue, because it "only concerns them", then they have to give up their rights to automatic child support. So long as men have any kind of involvement whatsoever, it becomes a factor in their lives, and they get a say.

Not to say that they should be able to choose FOR the woman (McFall v. Shrimp, anyone?), but if the father does not want a child, and the woman insists on keeping it, she exempts him from the responsibility of having to pay for the little parasite. Very simple. Thanks to our wonderful society, there are means to remove the parasite growing in your womb. If I don't want to have a child, for ANY reason, I should not be forced to contribute, BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO AVOID THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. Carrying the child to term, risking her life, is no longer a necessity. Why should child support payments for a child born without my consent be a necessity? It's sexist.

If sex = mating, you better ever have sex only with the intention of getting pregnant.

Sex isn't strictly for making babies. Sex is also done for FUN.

And, by the way, using your very same argument, if women have sex, they shouldn't be allowed to have abortions, because they should also deal with the 'consequences of sex'. So, if you're pro-choice, I'd advise you to either retract your argument, or rethink your position on the issue.

I HAVE to quote George Carlin on this topic.
If you think about it, all of these people who are anti-abortion tell you that life begins at the moment of conception, which is right when the guy goes "Sorry hun, I tried to pull out but the phone startled me!" So the woman has all of these fertilized eggs. Now, according to the pro-lifers, at that moment, that egg is a human being. Well, not every egg makes it since women have those wonderful few days called a period, where most to all of those fertilized eggs are washed out into a toilot. So does that make her a serial killer?

As for the churches, once some of these bishops and maybe even the pope start to lug around about 50 lbs all day, everyday for about nine months, have gone through thier first labor pains and try to raise 2-3 kids by themselves on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what thy have to say on abortion. it should be interesting razz

(Sorry, but I feel, even in a serious topic like this, humor should be employed every now and then)

However, I agree with Proudly_Jewish. it depends on the circumstance. If it is life threatening, then go ahead. if you can't afford to raise the child, there's always orphanages as an option, but still it might be feasable to have an abortion if you can't even afford to give birth and have no insurance, and there is talk that many insurance companies are no longer covering materinty care anymore.

Too busy with school for Gaia, not a member of this guild, busy but posting when she gets a chance, and hasn't been around this guild post-revival, respectively.

I am pro life, except when if doctors know that the child will not do well in life and will be very sick and be in alot of pain or a girl became pregnant from rape, but besides that i am pro life. I believe that life starts in the womb. life, a baby, is not a toy that you can just go say "well maybe i dont want this baby any more." And also, i dont mean to be offensive, if a teen becomes pregnant, intentionally, it is her fault and must pay that price. We talk about pro choice, well doesnt that baby have a choice. You might say, "It's just a baby, it hasnt learned how to choose," well if it is given life it will learn how to, wouldnt it. Think about this (again dont mean to be offensive), what if your parents had decided to get an abortion on you?

Okay. So, if, say, Osama Bin Laden's kidneys were failing (teehee) and you transplanting one of yours into him would save him, would you do it? If not, would you support an ordinance to FORCE you to do it? Because that's what you're suggesting.

Every person has a right to do with their body whatever it is they want. ANYTHING. This means that if someone is using their body without their consent, they have a right to expel them. If someone were mooching off of you in a way that would cripple you financially for at least the next 18 years, you'd tell them to piss off, too. And yet you still claim that fetuses have the right to violate a woman's right to choose what happens within her body?

And, in the future, don't bother to try not to be offensive, we understand. If your opinion offends someone, tough. You have a right to say it. DOn't EVER let fear of offending someone censor you.

I'll admit right now that I read the first page and skipped to the last. Partly because I didn't want to read it all sweatdrop


First with the whole "bodily domain" issue. Bottom is that is two people of the opposite sex have sex, they need to BOTH be prepared for whatever consequences there may be. If a woman finds out she is pregnant, while it ultimately comes down to the woman because it is her body the man should absolutely have a say. No woman should just make the decision on her own. you thought enough of the guy to sleep with him. You should think enough of him to hear what he has to say about the possibility of the abortion or whatever the case may be. Basically, if you don't want to have to make a decision regarding pregnancy, use some damn protection. And I've seen posts (not in this thread) where the women go "He needs to put on a condom!" Newsflash, women can do things to help prevent pgranancy too. And if you're not willing to do anythign ebcause it's the other person's responsibility you're both morons and shouldn't be having sex to begin with.

Second, with the original topic- abortion. I'm pro-choice. A lot of people confuse pro-choice with pro-abortion. Abortion should NOT be used as a form of birth control. There was a news story on CNN a while ago about how some chick who was gonna be on the View who had 4 abortions. FOUR? Gimme a break. You didn't learn from the first one? (Not to soudn like a borken rcord) but abortion should be used is instances like rape, incest, etc. To me, that should be a given. How could anyone bring a child into the world knowing that it will have been born out of hate and not love. I think it hsould be allowed but that there should be restrictions like it can't be performed after a certain number of weeks. It's medical procedure and should have rules and regs same as anything else that happens.

On the other side of things, how do you all feel about abortions and minors?