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Although it's specified to not be a necessary stage, if there's another stage, people are going to want to reach it. XD It's also a very clear IC goal, because what god doesn't want to return to full power? That it's RP-only is perfectly fine, but that doesn't actually weed out much, considering no one has opted to have a non-RP edel? I don't mind that dedication is required, but that is...hm. I think I'm pretty dedicated, and yet there's an element of 'I'm never going to get theeere D:' because it is SO MUCH.

I play a lot, have had Rio for going on six years, and would have something like 30-40 more entries to reach the 180, plus a couple dozen solos I need to fill. I understand that deity is special and requires effort, but maybe it's too hard. I feel like I put in a lot of effort, that I'm dedicated, even if my actual writing isn't as good as some others'. This is a game and meant to be fun, but at a certain point it isn't fun when you have to slog and slog away and feel like you're not getting there.

I'm not saying it shouldn't require proof of dedication, just that...maybe there is more to dedication than the numbers. orz I don't want it for the shiny-special art - though that is a fabulous plus - I ultimately want it for the character aspect.

As for Works of Glory, I guess I'm just embarrassed? It feels weird that I can get away with macaroni when others put out really amazing things.

Moving to guild is fine by me :3.

I would ask, for tallying - how would this effect edels that have already been tallied, as it were? XD I know both Illumin and Phae were close to deity under the old system~ would I re-tally them on my own or something? Or could they be grandfathered in as it were?


Re: Works of Glory - maybe I was putting too much pressure on myself. XD When it's put the way it has been now, I think that I could do them. <3 I do agree with Zero that the requirements for Deity RP wise are good already in terms of RP, etc.!

I've talked a lot of these things over with Ivy and various other people - see, I listen! biggrin - and I do have a few things to pop in - and not all are kind.

Edel growth requirements were not massively difficult - yes, some retooling would have helped more people get to youth faster (Deity should NOT be easy to attain, it's like the Princess/General King stage in Moonshop basically - only much easier to attain since you just have to keep slodging at it)...but saying that they are problematic because they can take years....

That just strikes me as hilarious, because if people can get multiple moonshop characters to their "final" RP-attainable stages (clearly attainable stages, rather) as quickly as the "x months between stages" time restraints will allow, then people can get an Edel!character to Youth.

Also, you must understand that these "new" numbers? Make it easy to get your god all the way over the hill in as little as two months. You just have to sit and write - and yes, getting rp is harder now...people aren't playing here as much. They've found other shops, other games...or life has taken them. It's sad but true and we just have to keep slodging along.

I have played with the system and ended up modeling potential values for a bunch of different things:

Each portion/stage is broken down into the work that is needed to obtain that stage via different routes. I focused on the Deity Stage as that seems to be the crux of the matter. The different parts are labelled - please note the comparison of work BEFORE and AFTER the inclusion of flexibility at each of the different levels.

I increased the cost of the Youth to 100 because I've had Glyph 3 years, 1 of which I was mostly MIA in due to RL, and I'm achieving Youth with ease with the new system as it stands.... that doesn't feel right. I feel like Glyph's just now ready for Youth in terms of personal development and as my current total sits at about 112 points, I suggested 100 points for Youth, and feel an an appropriate upscaling for the Deity is also required... Also including flexibility so people can slog through the RP/Solos if that's what they want OR go a more social/artsy route and still achieve the same results relatively quickly regardless of approach.

[Revision A] - This increases the point cost of the Youth by 20 points but the Deity cost remains the same. This model would lean towards less flexibility.

[Revision B] - This increases the point cost of the Youth AND the Deity by 20 points. This is a more neutral approach with the cost after flexibility is accounted for still minimal.

[Revision C] - This increases the point cost of the Youth and the Deity by 50 points. This is a more work-oriented regime... but still acheivable. It favors the inclusion of flexibility due to the high point requirement but does have the most work required over all even if the Before and After Flexibility are more equal then revisions A or B. This is the most equal in Before and After Comparison.

The options allow those who want to write to write and those who want to art to art and has room, too, for those who want a little of both to work with. The models assume 100% use of all the Options for the After Flexibility portion.

I also like the options because the art fosters a sense of community - everybody loves art of their character. Gift art is especially popular and if people are rewarded for receiving gift art then there's an incentive to give in the hopes of getting. While a selfish root, it does foster a stronger sense of community - This is Halloween uses the art-for-points system and I like how it's encouraged people to shower art on those they like, and it's art of all levels of ability too. The art would also hopefully feed back into inspiring Works of Glory and expanding Follower networks who would also produce more art.... and spawn a cycle that benefits everyone. Art of OCs obtained in this manner could easily be put towards the character's quota should they obtain a gem.... and would also encourage people to actually stick around even without a God

Edelsteine's one of the few shops that allows canon RP without having a featuring character and I think that's an underappreciated facet of the shop. Of course, art and quests and community won't develop if there's no people so I also think that some sort of newbie-related event to help ease people into the shop would be a great idea. Summarizing the shops plot so it's not so HUGE AND SCARY is an idea, as is emphasizing the free-reign approach that is my favourite aspect of the shop. Fandoms, Originals, Premades, and adapted characters can all interact in this shop, which I think is fantastic. The shop has A LOT to offer but I think people get too caught on the art/shinies to see that so shining a light on the awesome things besides the art would probably also help bring in new blood. The COuncil could probably arrange some sort of Forum or Gala or even a Ride to introduce themselves to the surrounding peoples and the newbie event could be incorporated into such an IC event easily. I got in via a test-run like that... why not try it again?

ANYWAY that's my 2 Cents. xD Over all, I favor Revision B and stand by my opinion that the current form of the new tally system is too easy. If the Deity stage is made too easy to obtain, it looses that 'specialness' and that saddens me. Making it too easy also cheapens the work that those who HAVE obtained deities did and I think that's disrespectful. A happy medium between SUPER EASY and SUPER HARD is really what's needed.

...I guess I just suck at this, then. orz But input was asked for, and so I gave it, and would rather not be implied to be silly or lazy for it.

I would like options, but not higher counts required. ;; But I guess I'm more of a minority in my troubles than I thought, because I do think deity is damn hard to get to. I don't know. I'm here to have fun and play with people, not stare at my screen and type to myself.

I don't think you are Meep. ^___^ I've sat down and thought about it and I agree with you.

I have been thinking about it as I just went through Cos's journal and I'd need 80+ rps to get to Deity ... that's quite a lot considering she has 112 RPs in 3/4 years. (when I was able to be more active.) Do I want to wait another 3/4 years to get to goal?
Ultimately Deity is where they all need to be as that's why they were reborn? So I don't think it should be exclusive. It's not like kings and queens and things which are status titles.
They are all destined to become gods in their full form, that's why we RP them and develop their characters.

Plus whenever something big happens everyone laments that there are not enough deities ... so surely we need to encourage more??
We want to keep people interested after all?

It shouldn't be easy but it shouldn't feel, as Zero put it ... like climbing Everest.

I will say though, between the contest for the gems and the recent updates it has pulled a lot of people in again.

(Is it bad my brain went 'edible Rio..what?' when I read that. Not sleeping to fix sleep schedule = possible gutter brain.)

ahhhhhh i feel so presumptuous for saying this when i don't have an edel so it's not really my concern but since it looks like i sort of brought it up here goes:

I agree that deity stage should be intimidating, and my problem with the outside commissioned part of it isn't that I think it's too intimidating. I never thought that the last stage should be something easy to get. It should take a lot of work, even two or three or six years of work, because it's a huge deal. Like people have been saying, it's the princess/gk stage of Edelsteine; I'd probably feel honestly cheated if it was easy to get. And I don't mind the fact that I, the player of the Edelstein, would be required to do art or write a poem or write a story about my character.

The reason the Deity stage bothers me when the Princess/GK stage doesn't is because one forces you to rely on others and the other is all on you. The Deity stage's requirement for work from other people (the commissioned art requirement) is something that, once you pay money/gold for, or post for it, or complete your half of an art trade for, it's that's really out of your hands. (I can't be the only person who's given an artist sixty dollars and gotten nothing for it, can I?) You can't control the quality of the piece or how much it resembles your Edel or when it will arrive or anything. Getting an outside commission really isn't an indication of your dedication to the character or to the shop, because... how many inactive players have we known in other places who racked up a hundred portraits of their first-stage characters but never put in the effort to make them grow?

If you put up a painted macaroni portrait for your outside/commissioned works requirement, people might think that you didn't put effort into finding just the right artist, or that you're just paying people two dollars and a box of macaroni to breeze through the requirement. If there's no quality control and we can put up ten minute sketches, then what's the point of the requirement in the first place, since it requires virtually no effort? And if there is quality control and we have to have the art done a certain way (meaning requirements on, say, how much of the god is shown and the degree of finish) then it stratifies the players who have cash, or have gaia gold, or can buy rig bundles, or have some kind of tradeable talent like being a good artist, from players who don't have those things. It would essentially lock those who couldn't get pieces in that style/manner of completion into Youth stage, while those who could pay would be able to progress to Deity. And then, even if you save up and budget for it (whatever it is you're spending; money on RL commissions, gold on Gaia commissions, time trolling the art freebie forum, time to do an art trade) it's entirely possible that the other person will just completely flake out.

I like that you have to produce works glorifying your Edel besides straight-up RP and solos. But I don't like that you have to get others to produce those works. I feel like if you get art from another person, it's a nice thing and maybe like TiH it should be able to be counted for things, like your own personal Works of Glory requirement, but it shouldn't be required as a separate bar to hit because it's not something everyone can necessarily do. That's the thing I dislike--not the fact that this stage is hard to get, or that I can't just write x amount of words and get this stage.

And I know that's not the intention! I know that it's meant to be proof that you're dedicated to and love this character you've made, and to show other people enjoy them too. I feel that you shouldn't be made to rely on the good will of others to get a final stage that's meant to reflect your work.