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I would like to point out that the bible doesn't not say that gays were evil or sinful, but rather that the two men were rapist bastards who happened to be gay. Read the bible, it's in there I swear.

you're talking about Matthews (or john, I can't remember the name exactly), who made a lot of random rules after jesus died in the thought that the appocolips was about to happen. He also said that you shouldn't sit on a chair that a woman who's ragging sat on because it's 'unclean'.

So basically it wasn't god who made this rule it was some idiot wandering about declaring the end of the world.

Don't we usually call these people crazy?

But why follow some of the rules the bible says if you are not going to follow them all? I am not saying anything in the bible is right, it was written by people, it obviously has fallacies in it.

But if you are going to use the bible as an example to say that gay people are evil, you can't just pick it appart and choose what you want to believe in, and leave the rest. You need to accept everything in it as the law.

I choose to follow the ten commandments, the rest is just stupidity, sexist/rasist/moronic men and their philospies of life. That and stories, yep, a whole lotta stories.

Also if you want to get technical about making everything in the bible law then we'll also have to follow the rules of the women who wrote in the bible and all the other people the church decided to 'cut out'.

What is the problem with gays


The person themselves is fine but their act of homosexuality is wrong. This statement is based on the one who set the rules: The one who created the universe and everything in it.


I know homosexuality is wrong but I am not judging it. [read definition of judging below] I know it is wrong based on the laws set by the law giver. Though life is not a game one may think about it this way. "The one who invented the game is the one who sets the rules[laws] for the game" but to make these statement "logical", "rational" and most importantly "valid" i must do 2 things.

1. prove that there is "an inventor of this universe"
2. prove that the inventor made a law that homosexuality is wrong.

I know I'm not "the all knowing one" so don't expect that I have all the answers. I don't. But I do have some limited knowledge that has been graced to me that I can share.


I can prove that this inventor[essentially God] exist by the following reasoning/support [I won't expand unless someone asks or wishes to know]

1. the existance of the universe
2. the scientific laws
3. the complexity of the universe
4. the fact that the universe is moving
5. the existance of morality
6. the Bible[I can, of course, prove the Bible to be true]
7. Jesus Christ[I can, of course, prove Jesus Christ to be true]
8. maybe more, don't remember off the top of my head


The inventer said that homosexuality is wrong in at least these two areas[again, I won't expand unless someone asks though...these two is pretty self explanatory if you ask me]

1. The bible
2. The biological structure of humans


The existance of homosexuals does not mean God approves of it. In the same manner I can tell you that the existance of evil does not mean God approves of it. [explanation may be given upon request]


It is perhaps better to see that act of judging by the jurisdiction than to explain it without the aid. I'm sure that it is common knowledge that a judge's job is to judge. But has anyone actually paid attention to how it is that they "judge"? The process is that a judge will decide whether a person commited a crime[rules are based on law] and then sentence the person with their punishment. that is judging. Deciding if they did wrong and condeming.

Thus there are two parts to judging and simply knowing that something is wrong is not judging. Many people often confuse "judging" with "deciding if something is wrong" due to that the latter is a part of "judging". However, it is not judging to have only half of the whole. Simply knowing that something is wrong is not judging.

souloe, consider this a request, but not in this thread, as that would probably launch it off topic.

Proving the existance of an inventor to the universe (in your sense, god).
Points 1 through 8, emphasis on points 5, 6, 7.

Please use the following thread for your response:
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=5716165

Also, I must commend you for your well-organized and thought out responses. I do hope that others emulate your actions.

Okay. Sorry, I kind of knew it was stupid when i posted that. sweatdrop

But you get my point anyways..... right?

hmmm, the expansion that dboyzero asked for is taking longer than i thought to type out. It'll take some time and I'll work on it periodically.

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As for here, I do have some comments or stuff to say about what you[ojeilatan] said.

1. No matter what terms the Bible used it seems to me that the underline beneath it is that homosexuality is not good.
2. As for your point of "looking at our own sin" I'm not quite sure I get what you are trying to say. We sin, I totally agree, and?... if you mean that we shouldn't judge becuase we are not perfect, I believe I've shared my views in that I am not judging but merely understanding the nature of the act.
3. I believe that the Bible is man written but God inspired and perfect in its original text. If you try to prove it false, I can guarentee you that you can not. Philosophers, Scientists, Newsreporters and many other people have been trying for the last 2000 years. If anything, you would find increasing proofs of its validity. Of course, understanding the Bible may not be so easy...I've seen many people using it incorrectly or interpreting it incorectly...but...that's another whole discussion altogether.

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[edit]

I just saw what dboyzero wrote so I thought I'd add my comments here.

For myself this is what I believe.

1. I believe that they are wrong in thier actions but I accept them as a person. In comparison one can look at it this way. Just becuase a child lied doesn't mean the parents don't love them anymore. There is intrinsic value in human and I try to treat people using that mindset.
2. The definition of Judging [refer to my other post]

With that in mind, I would like to comment on dboyzero's words. Personally I believe homosexuality is wrong in its actions adn thus I speak out against it. However, as much as I would like them to change I understand that it is their freedom to choose, hence free will. I may try to convince them but I cna't not force them to change. I have no right nor is it my place to deal judgement on them. Thus though I say they are wrong, I do not condemn them for their actions. It is not my place.