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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:22 pm
Which translation of the Bible is seen as "correct" in the Catholic church?
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:56 pm
Where does it say that purification is necessary for heaven?
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:27 pm
Knotghlon Where does it say that purification is necessary for heaven? Are you saying that you can get into Heaven with sin on your soul? Not everything needs to be explained in the Bible. I mean, really, common sense and deductive reasoning do wonders for doctrines. The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they? No. The OT was the largest say in a matter, but it wasn't the only say. And, hey, if that's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:32 pm
Mi-she Which translation of the Bible is seen as "correct" in the Catholic church? Any translation is fine, really. I believe most use the NIV, or a more modern English translation. The language in the KJV might be a little too hard to grasp for some. In addition, I'm not sure if it includes the septuagint to begin with, so it couldn't be Catholic anyway.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:44 pm
St. Amy You see, Protestant are very firm (in fact, insistent) about the fact that we continue sinning until the end of this life because of our corrupt nature. However, they are equally firm (if you press them) about the fact that we will not be sinning in heaven because we will no longer have a corrupt nature. Thus between death and glory there must be a sanctification -- a purification -- of our natures. Ok...um...so you believe that Protestants believe that we have sinful nature while on Earth and when we die, this nature falls instantly away by us dying and we are never plagued by it again? I have some things to say to this. Firstly, Christ is redeeming us away from Satan and sin unto Him, the Triune God, during our time on Eart, by filling us with Himself and His life. When we were saved, we were regenerated in our spirit. We are currently day by day being regenerated in our heart (our heart is made up of the three parts of our soul and 1 part spirit, our conscience) and we will be regenerated in our body and the flesh (sin nature) will become unemployed (he,he...I love that illistration), but this regenerating of our body will be during our lifetime if we are to be a normal Christian. We are all abnormal Christians for we are still of sin nature and not fully Christ, in His life and nature, but not in the Godhead. Christ was a normal Christian, the perfect God-man, divinity expressed through humanity. Those regenerated during this age will be the overcomers but the ones who are not fully filled with Christ and are not mature, they will be left during the Tribulation, and after, if those who are still not matured, they will go to outer darkness, where there is weeping and the knashing of teeth, to be matured while the matured ones will be enjoying the 1000 year wedding feast of the Lamb and the Church. After the 1000 years, they will be matured in life and fully God, in life and nature, but not in the Godhead, and no longer of Satan's life.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:54 pm
Izumi_Shaman St. Amy You see, Protestant are very firm (in fact, insistent) about the fact that we continue sinning until the end of this life because of our corrupt nature. However, they are equally firm (if you press them) about the fact that we will not be sinning in heaven because we will no longer have a corrupt nature. Thus between death and glory there must be a sanctification -- a purification -- of our natures. Ok...um...so you believe that Protestants believe that we have sinful nature while on Earth and when we die, this nature falls instantly away by us dying and we are never plagued by it again? I have some things to say to this. Firstly, Christ is redeeming us away from Satan and sin unto Him, the Triune God, during our time on Eart, by filling us with Himself and His life. When we were saved, we were regenerated in our spirit. We are currently day by day being regenerated in our heart (our heart is made up of the three parts of our soul and 1 part spirit, our conscience) and we will be regenerated in our body and the flesh (sin nature) will become unemployed (he,he...I love that illistration), but this regenerating of our body will be during our lifetime if we are to be a normal Christian. We are all abnormal Christians for we are still of sin nature and not fully Christ, in His life and nature, but not in the Godhead. Christ was a normal Christian, the perfect God-man, divinity expressed through humanity. Those regenerated during this age will be the overcomers but the ones who are not fully filled with Christ and are not mature, they will be left during the Tribulation, and after, if those who are still not matured, they will go to outer darkness, where there is weeping and the knashing of teeth, to be matured while the matured ones will be enjoying the 1000 year wedding feast of the Lamb and the Church. After the 1000 years, they will be matured in life and fully God, in life and nature, but not in the Godhead, and no longer of Satan's life. Oh, and I should add that growing in life is being constituted with the Triune God. We are constituted by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. When you call, "Oh, Lord Jesus", it is breathing for your spirit, for when you call in the name of the Son, you get the Spirit, and the Spirit comes from/with (the Greek {or is it Hebrew?} word for from means "from/with") the Father, so you get the Triune God into your being. This is growing, being filled up with Him. Oh yeah...and if you think I am going off into other things and bringing other arguements, do a "buckshot" comment, I'm not. This all goes along with the overcoming of the sin nature becuase the constituting of the Church is not without a goal.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:01 pm
Arilavent Knotghlon Where does it say that purification is necessary for heaven? Not everything needs to be explained in the Bible. I mean, really, common sense and deductive reasoning do wonders for doctrines. The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they? No. The OT was the largest say in a matter, but it wasn't the only say. And, hey, if that's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. That doesn't answer my question. Arilavent Are you saying that you can get into Heaven with sin on your soul? If purgatory exists, so then what was the purpose of Christ's crucifixion? God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:21 pm
Knotghlon Arilavent Knotghlon Where does it say that purification is necessary for heaven? Not everything needs to be explained in the Bible. I mean, really, common sense and deductive reasoning do wonders for doctrines. The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they? No. The OT was the largest say in a matter, but it wasn't the only say. And, hey, if that's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. That doesn't answer my question. I was asking you one, actually, and making a point, as well. Quote: Arilavent Are you saying that you can get into Heaven with sin on your soul? If purgatory exists, so then what was the purpose of Christ's crucifixion? God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28 If Christ took away the sins of the world, then why would people still go to Hell? No matter how you cut it, you and I still sin, and will sin until the day we die, I'm sure. There will be sin on our souls when we die, otherwise we are gaining unfair treatment from God. Christ died for the sins of the world, not the sins of the faithful. That residue of sin must come off. It's not that big a deal. It's like showering before you go to a wedding.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:08 pm
Arilavent Knotghlon Arilavent Knotghlon Where does it say that purification is necessary for heaven? Not everything needs to be explained in the Bible. I mean, really, common sense and deductive reasoning do wonders for doctrines. The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they? No. The OT was the largest say in a matter, but it wasn't the only say. And, hey, if that's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. That doesn't answer my question. I was asking you one, actually, and making a point, as well. Alright... Arilavent Question: "The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they?" They lived according to the scriptures. Arilavent Knotghlon Arilavent Are you saying that you can get into Heaven with sin on your soul? If purgatory exists, so then what was the purpose of Christ's crucifixion? God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28 If Christ took away the sins of the world, then why would people still go to Hell? One who rejects God's gift of eternal life, they will face the eternal consequences of that decision. Arilavent No matter how you cut it, you and I still sin, and will sin until the day we die, I'm sure. There will be sin on our souls when we die, otherwise we are gaining unfair treatment from God. Christ died for the sins of the world, not the sins of the faithful. That residue of sin must come off. It's not that big a deal. It's like showering before you go to a wedding. Christ died for the sins of the world to be able to recieve the gift of salvation. I have a question. Do you believe that you were going to die tonight, you would know immediately you were going to purgatory?
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:09 am
Wow one person at a time.
Ok the Bible question was answered and we are on Purgatory again.
Knotghlon wants to know where Catholic's Bible proof is for Purgatory. Looking up.
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:54 am
i have a question for when you are readdy.... do you beleive that people take demons out of other people *i just watched constantine recently, i think the shotgun should be on gois* ?
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:14 am
Amiruni slow down READ MY RULES ONE QUESTION AT A TIME Theopneustos is up I agree it is through the Holy Spirit that you are saved in baptism, but it is though the sacrement that he comes to us. Through Baptism the Holy Spirit comes to you. You don't need the water per say but you do need the sacrement. And as for the theif next to Jesus. Jesus in that moment gave him baptism personally, not with water but through his intercession. He can do that. Since he is in heaven we must rely on the sacrements he gave us to coem closer to him. baptism is just showing that you beleive in god & that others may see that you do domokun domokun
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:20 pm
Knotghlon Alright... Arilavent Question: "The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they?" They lived according to the scriptures. Yes, they did, but that doesn't answer the question. Is that the only thing they lived by? Christians can live by more than just the Bible, y'know, and so can Jews for that matter. Arilavent One who rejects God's gift of eternal life, they will face the eternal consequences of that decision. Not everyone outrightly rejects that gift though. That doesn't mean they have accepted it, either. The only way a sin is unforgivable is if you dont want forgiveness. I say that you can ask forgiveness before or after death. Arilavent Christ died for the sins of the world to be able to recieve the gift of salvation. I have a question. Do you believe that you were going to die tonight, you would know immediately you were going to purgatory? Really, what I believe is that I'd end up in Abraham's Bosom or Sheol. More than likely Sheol, where I would be cleansed in fire, which is essentially the same job as Purgatory anyway.
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:23 am
Izumi_Shaman Ok...um...so you believe that Protestants believe that we have sinful nature while on Earth and when we die, this nature falls instantly away by us dying and we are never plagued by it again? Yes, because we are not under the law any more. Izumi_Shaman I have some things to say to this. Firstly, Christ is redeeming us away from Satan and sin unto Him, the Triune God, during our time on Eart, by filling us with Himself and His life. When we were saved, we were regenerated in our spirit. We are currently day by day being regenerated in our heart (our heart is made up of the three parts of our soul and 1 part spirit, our conscience) and we will be regenerated in our body and the flesh (sin nature) will become unemployed (he,he...I love that illistration), but this regenerating of our body will be during our lifetime if we are to be a normal Christian. And this has anything to do with when we die? Izumi_Shaman We are all abnormal Christians for we are still of sin nature and not fully Christ, in His life and nature, but not in the Godhead. However, we are children of God, not children of wrath, after the Father has drawn His elect to His Son. Unless you want to believe that God's power is unable to do something. Izumi_Shaman Christ was a normal Christian, No He wasn't. He wasn't a Christian. He was the Christ. Christianity came up first at Antioch. Read up on the Acts of the Apostles for me. Izumi_Shaman Those regenerated during this age will be the overcomers but the ones who are not fully filled with Christ and are not mature, they will be left during the Tribulation, and after, if those who are still not matured, they will go to outer darkness, where there is weeping and the knashing of teeth, to be matured while the matured ones will be enjoying the 1000 year wedding feast of the Lamb and the Church. After the 1000 years, they will be matured in life and fully God, in life and nature, but not in the Godhead, and no longer of Satan's life. Do you believe in the Pre-Tribulation? I'm sure those early church fathers would be bothered by the new "Pre-Trib" thought. I don't know why Paul would warn Christians of things to come, if we are not going to be present during the Great Tribulation. Izumi_Shaman We are constituted by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. But we cannot call Jesus "Lord," unless by the Holy Spirit. Izumi_Shaman When you call, "Oh, Lord Jesus", it is breathing for your spirit, for when you call in the name of the Son, you get the Spirit, and the Spirit comes from/with (the Greek {or is it Hebrew?} word for from means "from/with") the Father, so you get the Triune God into your being. This is growing, being filled up with Him. The Holy Spirit regenerates man. He cannot and will not call on the name of the Lord unless first He is "born again" by the Holy Spirit. He must be drawn to the Son by the Father.
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:11 am
Arilavent Knotghlon Alright... Arilavent Question: "The Jews didn't base everything that had off of Holy Scripture, did they?" They lived according to the scriptures. Yes, they did, but that doesn't answer the question. Is that the only thing they lived by? Christians can live by more than just the Bible, y'know, and so can Jews for that matter. What do you mean by "Christians can live by more than just the Bible"? Arilavent Knotghlon One who rejects God's gift of eternal life, they will face the eternal consequences of that decision. Not everyone outrightly rejects that gift though. That doesn't mean they have accepted it, either. The only way a sin is unforgivable is if you dont want forgiveness. I say that you can ask forgiveness before or after death. I disagree that you can ask forgiveness after death but thats my perspective. Arilavent Knotghlon Christ died for the sins of the world to be able to recieve the gift of salvation. I have a question. Do you believe that you were going to die tonight, you would know immediately you were going to purgatory? Really, what I believe is that I'd end up in Abraham's Bosom or Sheol. More than likely Sheol, where I would be cleansed in fire, which is essentially the same job as Purgatory anyway. But you are not sure that you would go to purgatory, right?
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