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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:56 pm
Yeah, it's off topic, but you've got me curious too. I hate to make it seem like we're ganging up on you, Mindcandy, but I don't quite understand what you're saying either; Do you believe that we should not eat pork? Because that's still in Leviticus, and it's not been replaced by anything. Actually, it's a lot more then just pork. Coming from the "Blue Letter" online Bible, King James Version, Leviticus Chapter 11: Camels, rabbits, hares, pigs, anything that does not have cloven feet or does not chew it's cud, anything from the sea that does not have fins and scales (Which would include shrimp, crabs, eel, lobster, crayfish), or anything that "creeps upon the earth." Which usually aren't eaten by most people, but there are times when snakes and whatnot are eaten. And that's not all that wasn't replaced or specifically abolished by Christ. There was the whole "After touching a dead body or animal carcass, or any water having touched a dead body or animal carcass, you are unclean until performing the cleaning rituals." thing. Also, earthen vessels or ovens having touched any of the afore mentioned unclean things are to be broken. That was all still Leviticus 11. Then there's Leviticus 12: Women are unclean for 7 days after childbirth, if it's male, and there's a 33 day cleansing period afterwards. For female children, the mother is unclean for 14 days after childbirth, and then there's a 66 day cleansing period. Leviticus 17: No consumption of blood whatsoever. Those that consume blood are to be cut off from the community and from God. (Blood is commonly made into a "blood sausage" in the UK, not to mention that meat that you buy from the store typically still has some blood in it.) Leviticus 19: Don't reap everything you sow, leave some for the poor. Don't plant two crops in one field, "mingling the seeds." Don't wear woolen-linen blends. If you have sex with a woman that someone else has laid claim to, either as a slave or a betrothed, then -she- is to be scourged, (but you may get away scot free.) When you plant trees, you are not to eat their fruit for three years, they are to be considered uncircumsized. Then on the fourth year, they are to be free to praise the Lord. In the fifth year, you may eat them. 19:27: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard." I'm not sure exactly how to translate that, but it seems to put restrictions on shaving and hair cutting. Leviticus 24:10-23 has various applications of the death penalty, almost all of which probably aren't considered very Christian by most people these days. And that's just if you remove everything about Priests and Temple, which I personally think would just transfer to Pastor (Or remain Priest if you're Catholic like me), and Church.
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:44 am
I.Am Yeah, it's off topic, but you've got me curious too. I hate to make it seem like we're ganging up on you, Mindcandy, but I don't quite understand what you're saying either; Do you believe that we should not eat pork? Because that's still in Leviticus, and it's not been replaced by anything. Actually, it's a lot more then just pork. Coming from the "Blue Letter" online Quote: Bible, King James Version, Leviticus Chapter 11: Camels, rabbits, hares, pigs, anything that does not have cloven feet or does not chew it's cud, anything from the sea that does not have fins and scales (Which would include shrimp, crabs, eel, lobster, crayfish), or anything that "creeps upon the earth." Which usually aren't eaten by most people, but there are times when snakes and whatnot are eaten. Acts 10:9-16 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. Quote: And that's not all that wasn't replaced or specifically abolished by Christ. There was the whole "After touching a dead body or animal carcass, or any water having touched a dead body or animal carcass, you are unclean until performing the cleaning rituals." thing. Also, earthen vessels or ovens having touched any of the afore mentioned unclean things are to be broken. That was all still Leviticus 11. Mostly done for sanatary reasons. In reality, we still do this by cleaning ourselves after handling any dead thing, or sanatizing or destroying equipment that was used to do so. It's common health practice and therefore still has legitimate reason to exist. Also, as far as i can tell, it's still practiced. Quote: Then there's Leviticus 12: Women are unclean for 7 days after childbirth, if it's male, and there's a 33 day cleansing period afterwards. For female children, the mother is unclean for 14 days after childbirth, and then there's a 66 day cleansing period. Also still practiced, women are just scientifically cleansed faster these days. Back then it was done to give the woman time to heal and recover, and now, the same principle applies, it's just handled by a doctor. You have to remember that the jewish people didn't HAVE doctors, the religious tribe (levites) handled all these things. In matters reguarding health, a lot of responsibility was lifted from the religious leaders and given to healthcare professionals around the time of Christ. Christ never specifically mentioned this was acceptable practice, but he never accused people of sin for doing so, and there are other passages of scripture where people are encouraged to see doctors for ailments. Basicly it signifies the passing of responsiblity from the religious to the non-religious for healthcare reasons. Quote: Leviticus 17: No consumption of blood whatsoever. Those that consume blood are to be cut off from the community and from God. (Blood is commonly made into a "blood sausage" in the UK, not to mention that meat that you buy from the store typically still has some blood in it.) already responded to this above in the kosher diet thing you mentioned. Quote: Leviticus 19: Don't reap everything you sow, leave some for the poor. Don't plant two crops in one field, "mingling the seeds." Don't wear woolen-linen blends. If you have sex with a woman that someone else has laid claim to, either as a slave or a betrothed, then -she- is to be scourged, (but you may get away scot free.) When you plant trees, you are not to eat their fruit for three years, they are to be considered uncircumsized. Then on the fourth year, they are to be free to praise the Lord. In the fifth year, you may eat them. 19:27: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard." I'm not sure exactly how to translate that, but it seems to put restrictions on shaving and hair cutting. principles for giving to the poor were maintained and changed at various places in the New Testament. Not mixing crops is still practiced and considered a rather common sense practice. The non blending of wool and linen should be obvious as wool shrinks and linen does not. Still practiced. The principle of males not being as responsible as females was changed in the new testament as in christ there is no "male or female, slave nor free" etc. It's mentioned several places. The not eating of the fruit trees was a practice of good farming and sacrificing part of your earnings to God, both of which are still practiced. The Bible still puts restricitons on appearance, but there were changed in the New Testament to principles of modesty rather then ritualistic tradition. It's been replaced. Quote: Leviticus 24:10-23 has various applications of the death penalty, almost all of which probably aren't considered very Christian by most people these days. Romans 13:3-4 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. The Government is still given the right to execute even in the NT. I support the death penalty. Quote: And that's just if you remove everything about Priests and Temple, which I personally think would just transfer to Pastor (Or remain Priest if you're Catholic like me), and Church. Hebrews clearly teaches in chapter 5 that all christians are priests and, while the responsibilites remain the same, the practices are different. We no longer need the tradition and ritual that is in the old testament. The principle that's repeated over and over again in the NT is faith in Christ's work of salvation, not in your ablility to perform certian rites and ceremonies.
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:15 am
You're pretty good...
I'm sorry, but too many of those are too vague. I'm sure if I studied the Bible enough, I could find a verse I could twist into cancelling out the verse on "homosexuallity."
For instance, the line on "Not woman or man." Well that cancels the distinctions, doesn't it? Thus, canceling the verses on not acting like a woman, or having homosexual relations.
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:38 am
here's an interesting link that shows how Jesus treated women and how it's a model for modern christians: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cfe_bibl.htmas for homosexuality, here's some NT passages: Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet." 1Corithians 6:9-11: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine the sections i've underlined are, in the original language, euphamisims for homosexuals (the literal translation is 'man-bedder' I'd like to state, once again, since someone just looking at this post would think i'm a homophobic or a basher, I'm just trying to show that the bible clearly says this is sin. The bible elsewhere takes a hard stance on EVERY sin, and while some of these passages proably seem very agressive and blunt, i've cut them out of context for the sake of easy posting (feel free to look them up if you'd like, it dosn't change the fact that it's teaching against homosexual behavior, but it should help to make them seem much less offensive when read in context.) The Bible frequently talks about God's love for sinners who struggle with every kind of sin, and this is no different. Oh, and thanks. Like i've said, i think about this stuff a lot. I think it's important to understand what you believe and not just accept what other people tell you. I've had bad experiences with just blindly following someone's teaching.
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 pm
Pssh, that's what rocks about being a women pro-lifer. If I had a pro-life boyfriend, then great! If he was pro-choice.. I don't know, I guess it would depend on how much I care for him. He can't make me get an abortion, so it wouldn't haunt me all the time.
There is this guy I like a lot, and I don't know if we're actually b/f and g/f yet (I know I'm pathetic xP)... I'm too afraid to ask him wether or not he's pro-life or pro-choice. I think I'd die. xP
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:16 pm
When does that come up in normal, everyday conversation anyway?
"Did you catch the Redskins game last night?" "Yeah, it rocked! Santana Moss FTW!" "I know! I'm pro-life!" "Where the hell did that come from?"
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:26 pm
lymelady When does that come up in normal, everyday conversation anyway? "Did you catch the Redskins game last night?" "Yeah, it rocked! Santana Moss FTW!" "I know! I'm pro-life!" "Where the hell did that come from?" If it were my grandma and grandpa, it would come up CONSTANTLY. Well, at least with grandma. I mean, she is always walking up to random people and getting around to subjects like, "homosexuality is wrong![Which gets me REAL ticked off because I'm bi xP], or "I'm pro-life!"
Then people stare at her like she's crazy. .__. It can be entertaining sometimes, but only if I'm at a safe distance where people can't tell we're related.
One time she walked up to this person and started talking about her pimples! I think I wanted to stab myself then and there.. xP
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:22 am
lymelady When does that come up in normal, everyday conversation anyway? "Did you catch the Redskins game last night?" "Yeah, it rocked! Santana Moss FTW!" "I know! I'm pro-life!" "Where the hell did that come from?" With me? All the effing time. XD
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:33 pm
men don't often think of it, or about it. In fact, i'm considered a little odd for how much though i give it, especially among other men. For women, it hits closer to home, in which case i suppose they think about it a lot. Hell as much as i think about it, i didn't even bring it up with my girlfriend until i was 6 months into the relationship after some circumstances got me thinking about it.
I guess if women think about it more, then I suppose maybe lesians would talk about it earlier in their relationships. Then again... they really don't have much to worry about since you can't get pregnant from a double ender.
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:37 pm
I tend to dwell on things....so...it hits me pretty hard...then i think about it more...and look around my life and wonder...
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:27 am
(I'm back, by the way)
My boyfriend is personal pro-life and political pro-choice. I dont think I could date a guy who would be okay with killing our child. I'm glad I'm so loud and annoying, Ville's certain to know I will never have an abortion even if it wasnt a good time for a baby.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:16 am
First thing I thought when I saw who was the most recent poster was, "Yay! Wisdo!" whee
Welcome back!
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:04 pm
I'd break up with the person. I know that I could never marry a pro-choice guy, so a relationship with one would have to eventually end. In addition, I don't understand how people can be personally against abortion but politacally for. Anyone who claims to be that is saying that personally they oppose murder, but they'll defend someone's "right" to commit it.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:32 pm
I can sort of understand the "Personal Pro-Life, political Pro-Choice." People who are that way typically believe that the fetus is a living person yadda yadda, or at least believe that they are too close to decide either way, but they believe that the mother's bodily integrity comes first. They don't believe that the fetus should have a legal right to use the mother's nutrients, and to use the mother as a home. So they believe that it should be a choice. However, they believe that the right choice is to not have an abortion. They just don't think it should be legally enforced.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:49 pm
lymelady When does that come up in normal, everyday conversation anyway? "Did you catch the Redskins game last night?" "Yeah, it rocked! Santana Moss FTW!" "I know! I'm pro-life!" "Where the hell did that come from?" Not exactly small talk... *grin* But, I feel, very important to talk about sometime before or early on in a relationship. I would not have started dating my boyfriend if he didn't feel the same way I do on this, because I feel very strongly that this is something a couple should agree on (though some people don't feel the same way). I can't imagine just throwing it into conversation though. That probably would end badly pretty often. Heck, two people I once was friends with (both no longer friends for various other reasons) brought up abortion rather randomly, and it really was quite odd. I can't imagine dating someone who feels differently than me on this issue. I could easily be friends with people who feel differently, but I couldn't date them. And really, it kind of confuses me that other people do date those who don't share their opinion on this.
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