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 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:52 am
Sorry Amelia doesn't count here because her starting class is a trainee class not knight. Besides she can ignore that class line and become a cavalier.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:52 am
Sasuke no Katon
Worst? Hmm... Bors from FE6. This guy...THIS GUY. Ohhhh how many times did I have to reset because this guy would totally fail and die. -_-;; But that's just my opinion.Since you've played FE6 it seems, have you ever compared Bors to the awful hole of misery that is using Wendy? I know I'm voting for Ardan for worst. Can't decide on best yet.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:57 am
Manic Martini Sasuke no Katon
Worst? Hmm... Bors from FE6. This guy...THIS GUY. Ohhhh how many times did I have to reset because this guy would totally fail and die. -_-;; But that's just my opinion.Since you've played FE6 it seems, have you ever compared Bors to the awful hole of misery that is using Wendy? I know I'm voting for Ardan for worst. Can't decide on best yet.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:13 pm
I see. The irony is Bors is usually seen as the best Knight/General in FE6 because his growths are nearly identical to Wendy with the same units to support with, but he comes a lot sooner and is thus easier to raise. If Ardan didn't exist, people would probably be voting for Wendy as worst Knight/General.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:25 pm
Best: Gatrie (FE10)
The maps where you can use Gatrie aren't that large, if I recall correctly, so I was usually able to have him keep up with some of my faster units. He also had a great Defense, which should be the best stat of any Armor Knight/General, so I'd usually have him tank non-magic users. He was a great shield for Shinon, too.
Worst: Meg
I really didn't want to put her here, since I actually have a fondness for Meg which I cannot explain. However, she absolutely fails as an Armor Knight. Speed was usually her best growth stat, but with a low Speed cap, she hit that pretty early. Also, with her bad Defense growth, she just can't function in her assigned class.
In my opinion, she would've been far better off as a Myrmidon. With good Speed and Luck growths (as well as decent Strength and HP growths), she could've been a good unit. Not a great unit, but certainly a more usable one.
Again, in my opinion, it's worse to have wasted potential than to just not have any potential to begin with.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Okay, I will admit that I RARELY use Knight/General in my game. No matter how strong they are or how strong their defense is, I rarely use them because (and call me silly if you like) they move so freakin slow. >.< Yes, I'm aware that that's how the class is set up and that I can use the mount to carry them or use a rescue staff. However, I still rarely use them. The only time I ever use them is when I'm forced to use them (like Oswin in the beginning of Hector's story or Wallace in Lyn's story before I get the Prep scene) in the battle or to finish the support. As soon as I'm done with them, they hit the bench. Heck, not even toward the endgame did I use them unless I'm trying to finish support *coughWallaceandRenaultcough* The only Knight/General I ever use in the endgame was Kellam and that was because he was one of the best tanks I had among my units. >>; However, I will try my best to give out my vote.
Best: UTHER!!! *shot*
Okay, okay, okay. So I can't use that since he's a NPC and we don't know what's his stat. >>; But anyway, the best Knight/General that I had/have played goes to Kellam. Truth be told, I had to use the Serenes Forest website to compare the Knight/General stats (both average and growth stats) since, like I said, I rarely used them, so my memory is kinda foggy about how well them did for me. So far, from all the Knight/General I see on the stats (FE7-FE9 and FE13), Kellam's stats looks better than the rest. And as I said earlier, he was the only Knight/General I ever bother to bring into battle without needing to finish the support, recruit someone, or being forced by the game storyplot.
Worst: Meg
From all the Knight/General I used to play or test out, she is the worse for me. She took more damage from the enemies compare to other Knight/General took. In addition, she sucks at strength. I know I did my best trying to level her up by trying to let her take the killing blow, but even bonus exp won't raise her strength. >.< Never have I ever seen a Knight/General fails at his/her class.
EDIT: Just to clear up a bit of confusion, although Meg is from FE10, you like to know why I haven't comment about Gatrie (FE10). Well, if you happened to see my previous post about FE10, you should know that I haven't past the end of Part 2 on FE10. And since Gatrie came after Part 2, I can't say anything about him since I hadn't play him.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:09 pm
Jisen Meizuki Truth be told, I had to use the Serenes Forest website to compare the Knight/General stats (both average and growth stats) since, like I said, I rarely used them, so my memory is kinda foggy about how well them did for me. So far, from all the Knight/General I see on the stats (FE7-FE9 and FE13), Kellam's stats looks better than the rest. And as I said earlier, he was the only Knight/General I ever bother to bring into battle without needing to finish the support, recruit someone, or being forced by the game storyplot. That's kind of really unfair towards Kellam, because typically, the later the entry in the series, the higher stats and growths are in general. But the enemies are also harder too. If we just looked at who had the biggest numbers, Awakening characters would win everything. Just look at their caps to get an idea of the power creep the series goes through: General caps in FE7-9: 60 29 27 24 30 25 General Marshall caps in FE10: 60 36 34 31 37 30 Kellam's General caps: 80 51 42 33 53 35 I removed Magic and Luck since the first is irrelevant to the class and not in every entry, and the latter because it's typically the same for all classes (but guess what: Kellam had higher caps for those by a lot too). Awakening doesn't even HAVE a third tier and his caps are a LOT higher than those for FE10. Which is a lot higher than for the entries before it. Of course Kellam has higher stats and growths than Knights in other entries. He's in a game with higher stats overall, but that doesn't mean he's actually better.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:30 pm
Yeah growths and caps are something, but how about their base stats and availability. Do you take that into account? Do you take into account the maps that you have to fight in? How do they perform in said maps? In Awakening do you think said male makes a good father to any child? Does the unit if in Awakening have good reclass options? You have more than just caps and growths to think about. Not picking on anyone but just saying that this is something to think about for future votes on units.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:32 pm
... You know, my apologies for not being stat wises as you are. Perhaps, I'll keep my opinion from the opinion poll from now on. stare
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:10 pm
ALRIGHT! Moving along!
Best: This is a toughie, as I don't have much experience with Generals, but still. I'm gonna have to go with FE10!Gatrie. His growths are nuts, he can tank pretty much anything that's not a super-powered mage. He has bonkers speed for a General/Marshall, and he's also a cool character in my opinion. As has been said, all the maps he's usable in aren't to big, so he can keep up with the army fairly well. His massive STR also prevents any AS loss from heavier weapons like a Silver Greatlance or the like. He's not my prime Wishblade user(that's Nephenee btw), but he easily could be. My only real complaint with Gatrie is that when you get him, there are so many other units you will probably be using OVER him, that he kinda gets left in the dust. I have the same problem with Boyd as well.
Worst: Meg. By far. Her growths are not suited for her class. Abyssmal defense, comes at a time when she really is needed, and can't take the heat. Her spd and luck growths are nice, as is her hp, but that def and str growth just aren't good enough. Hell, she is BROM'S DAUGHTER. She should be mowing things down left and right! But no, she's utter crap, starts as a tier 1 unit, so she starts out weak. Not necessarily a bad thing as she has a lot of room to grow, but she doesn't USE it is the problem! Earlier someone said she'd make a great Myrmidon. I honestly agree, as her growths lean MUCH farther towards that than anything else. If FE10 had a reclass system, MAYBE she'd be usable, but alas, no joy.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:57 pm
Wow, Isadora, you're taking this way too personally. You need to take a chill pill or something, because they weren't attacking you.
That said, Mel's reasoning did make me choose Kellam as best. I already know people disagree, but I laugh at them and don't give a ********. He's been the best knight unit I've had in a while. He can solo things just fine and his weaknesses are easily enough overcome with pairup. Bothered by armor effective weapons and magic? Not Kellam. That logic can't be applied to every Awakening character though, since they still need to be able to stand up against the other games' unit types (which is why Frederick didn't win)... and Kellam does. As a father, he'll tend to give great defense boosts to help the child tank. He comes in very early. He has great stats. He can REACH the enemy just fine... I love Oswin, I like Gartie, and Brom too (in 10- sorry, but I think Brom tops Gatrie in 10 overall), but I still think Kellam wins.
Best: Kellam
Worst: Ardan
I'm sorry, but worst is most definitely NOT Meg. Bonus experience, people. She's a great unit when given the chance. I'll surely concede that the game does all in its power to try and make her useless to you though, even in part 1. Unlike Ardan, it's easy to give her a chance, simply because of bexp and the fact that it will take her significantly less time to reach the enemies than he will.
So let me break this down a little bit. Bad defense? Have you SEEN her base stat and average stats? She starts with 10 def at level 3. That's GOOD. 35% growth rate? Yeah, that's not so great for a knight. BUT... look at this:
1st tier level 20: 15.95/20 def - 5 from max
2nd tier level 20: 24.6/30 def - 6 from max
3rd tier level 20: 34.25/35 def - 1 from max
Hardly terrible.
Going to go after her strength? She also starts with 10 in that. Same growth, admittedly not good. BUT...
1st tier level 20: 15.95/20 str - 5 from max
2nd tier level 20: 24.6/27 str - 3 from max
3rd tier level 20: 34.25/36 str - 2 from max
Hardly terrible again - Keep in mind that I'm not trying to say that she's better than Gatrie or her father or for that matter other good knights like Oswin by any means. I'm just saying she's not worst. Plus, having a knight that can double things early on, dodge a lot and take magic hits better plus not get doubled by them? Why the complaints about how she's more suited as a different unit type?
Have you seen wendy's base stats, starting level for arrival within the game, and competition? I'll submit she's arguably not horrible when you give her the chance, but why would anybody possibly use her even in the chapter you get her in except by favoritism? (I'm not arguing that Meg doesn't require favoritism to use beyond the DB chapters) You have Bors and Barth who are both much better than she is at the point in time you get her. With Meg, she's part of the Dawn Brigade, and you'll likely be needing to utilize every unit very effectively, so she at least will have her uses during those DB chapters. Plus, Tauroneo is only there for one chapter and then is unusable for the rest of part 1. In part 3, she can still tank, and you might need her, depending on how you've been using your DB units.
Wendy will get herself killed by anything even in her starting map, which is a castle map- something she, as a knight, should excel in. She needs Barth just to survive when she's supposed to be there to rescue Lilina. If anything, she's making things more difficult for everyone, the poor sweetheart. After that, have fun babying a knight, which takes twice as long as babying any est unit simply because of mobility. Gunna baby Meg? Hello bexp. Why wouldn't you utilize the game feature when it's not grinding and is going to save you a migraine?
But at least Wendy can have a chance at GETTING to the enemy, which is more than you can say about Ardan. He's there to guard the castle... now, maybe it's just me, but we never even NEEDED a person to guard a castle in part 1. He had one job and the game never let him do it. If he came in with the abilities that Hannibal has, maybe he wouldn't be worst.
But of course, I think some of the people who voted Meg haven't played 4 or 6, so I guess that does leave Meg next in line- but it's the game's fault she's not great, not hers. She has the ability. )8
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:03 pm
Best: I'm feeling a bit flipfloppy too. While FE10!Gatrie does have better growths, I find Oswin more practical to use within his own game, since when he comes in he has greater niche appeal, and he's also pretty darn great. And it's not just FE10's game layout that makes me say that, though that is part of it. But with that comes the question: Would you give everyone in FE10 a lower grade just because of how the game is laid out? Especially since BEXP is a thing? I think it is important to look at how the characters in question hold up in their games in relation to how characters hold up in their respective games. But in that light I think I still will go with Oswin, because like I said, at that point he has a greater niche, whereas Gatrie is surrounded by badass, which admittedly he counts among, but still.
Worst: Poor Ardan was born under an unfortunate star. Not only is he slow as heck in a game that prioritizes movement over very large maps and between many castles, but he also happens to have a face only a mother could love. While he can act as a stopper between the enemy and your fortress (assuming they ever get that far), you're gonna want to have him get at least a little moving time and have him shimmy his armored a** down to the beach where he contemplates the horrible hand that life has dealt him, and miraculously, discovers a Pursuit Ring, and realizes that the power to love and be loved was within him the entire time.
And then you give it to someone more capable, and take away his one moment in the sun. Poor man.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:12 pm
Nomad Rath Wow, Isadora, you're taking this way too personally. You need to take a chill pill or something, because they weren't attacking you. That said, Mel's reasoning did make me choose Kellam as best. I already know people disagree, but I laugh at them and don't give a ********. He's been the best knight unit I've had in a while. He can solo things just fine and his weaknesses are easily enough overcome with pairup. Bothered by armor effective weapons and magic? Not Kellam. That logic can't be applied to every Awakening character though, since they still need to be able to stand up against the other games' unit types (which is why Frederick didn't win)... and Kellam does. As a father, he'll tend to give great defense boosts to help the child tank. He comes in very early. He has great stats. He can REACH the enemy just fine... I love Oswin, I like Gartie, and Brom too (in 10- sorry, but I think Brom tops Gatrie in 10 overall), but I still think Kellam wins. Best: Kellam Worst: Ardan I'm sorry, but worst is most definitely NOT Meg. Bonus experience, people. She's a great unit when given the chance. I'll surely concede that the game does all in its power to try and make her useless to you though, even in part 1. Unlike Ardan, it's easy to give her a chance, simply because of bexp and the fact that it will take her significantly less time to reach the enemies than he will. So let me break this down a little bit. Bad defense? Have you SEEN her base stat and average stats? She starts with 10 def at level 3. That's GOOD. 35% growth rate? Yeah, that's not so great for a knight. BUT... look at this: 1st tier level 20: 15.95/20 def - 5 from max 2nd tier level 20: 24.6/30 def - 6 from max 3rd tier level 20: 34.25/35 def - 1 from max Hardly terrible. Going to go after her strength? She also starts with 10 in that. Same growth, admittedly not good. BUT... 1st tier level 20: 15.95/20 str - 5 from max 2nd tier level 20: 24.6/27 str - 3 from max 3rd tier level 20: 34.25/36 str - 2 from max Hardly terrible again - Keep in mind that I'm not trying to say that she's better than Gatrie or her father or for that matter other good knights like Oswin by any means. I'm just saying she's not worst. Plus, having a knight that can double things early on, dodge a lot and take magic hits better plus not get doubled by them? Why the complaints about how she's more suited as a different unit type? Have you seen wendy's base stats, starting level for arrival within the game, and competition? I'll submit she's arguably not horrible when you give her the chance, but why would anybody possibly use her even in the chapter you get her in except by favoritism? (I'm not arguing that Meg doesn't require favoritism to use beyond the DB chapters) You have Bors and Barth who are both much better than she is at the point in time you get her. With Meg, she's part of the Dawn Brigade, and you'll likely be needing to utilize every unit very effectively, so she at least will have her uses during those DB chapters. Plus, Tauroneo is only there for one chapter and then is unusable for the rest of part 1. In part 3, she can still tank, and you might need her, depending on how you've been using your DB units. Wendy will get herself killed by anything even in her starting map, which is a castle map- something she, as a knight, should excel in. She needs Barth just to survive when she's supposed to be there to rescue Lilina. If anything, she's making things more difficult for everyone, the poor sweetheart. After that, have fun babying a knight, which takes twice as long as babying any est unit simply because of mobility. Gunna baby Meg? Hello bexp. Why wouldn't you utilize the game feature when it's not grinding and is going to save you a migraine? But at least Wendy can have a chance at GETTING to the enemy, which is more than you can say about Ardan. He's there to guard the castle... now, maybe it's just me, but we never even NEEDED a person to guard a castle in part 1. He had one job and the game never let him do it. If he came in with the abilities that Hannibal has, maybe he wouldn't be worst. But of course, I think some of the people who voted Meg haven't played 4 or 6, so I guess that does leave Meg next in line- but it's the game's fault she's not great, not hers. She has the ability. )8 I have played 6, but not 4, and I totally forgot about Arden even though I read a post that had him as worst right before I posted. DERP. HOWEVER, your comment on 6 makes me think people dislike Wendy. A lot. I REALLY like Wendy. She is basically Bors, but a tad bit harder to train. And by a tad bit I mean a LOT. But if you do train her, she is quite psycho. At least in my experience. My problem with your theory about Meg is this: There are so many better units to give BExp to. For example: Edward and Nolan. I'll admit her bases are good, and I forgot that they were THAT good, however, averages and actual results are MUCH different. She NEVER turns out that well for me, even when I have used her. I much regretted that playthrough. I will admit though that when she DOES turn good, which is once in a blue moon, she is quite good. But from my own time playing FE10, she never gets that good, so my apologies if I've offended anyone with not going as in depth as I should have. Also..Meg is kinda bleh personality wise too for me. Oh well. Maybe I'll try using her next time through.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:18 pm
I don't think people dislike Wendy. She's a female knight. People like that. I like that. I specified that she would need favoritism to use, which is very true for many characters.
Here's my response to your argument about the bexp being better used on other characters: you get plenty of it to go around. And you don't really need to use it on most of your units anyway. More often than not, you end the game with a lot of bexp left over. Basically, it goes to waste.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:20 pm
Nomad Rath I don't think people dislike Wendy. She's a female knight. People like that. I like that. I specified that she would need favoritism to use, which is very true for many characters. Here's my response to your argument about the bexp being better used on other characters: you get plenty of it to go around. And you don't really need to use it on most of your units anyway. More often than not, you end the game with a lot of bexp left over. Basically, it goes to waste. I end up spamming more bexp than I probably should, so I end up with less. But that's more of an issue with me being too frugal with the BExp. Like I said though, I'll give Meg a shot. She can't be TOO bad if her averages are that. Now to just get my copy of RD to actually WORK.
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