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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:28 am
Yay... I got in. :3 Perhapnesses someone went to guild owner and said "Hai let's let this girl in so we can be de-brainwashed" ;3 Quote: I am sorry for any readers who would like to not read this, in which case, I guess you don't have to, and if you have and regret it, I am sorry for that. Lol. :3 Quote: I think you failed to continue with the stopping of rudeness, what with the use of retard with no direct provocation. You basically threw the first stone, good job. x3 I know I'm a monger. Pajammies is always tellin' me so. I didn't say I'd stop being rude. :E And I did Say I'd be frank people. FRANK Quote: Yes, that is our point, unfortunatly its a defect or screw up, which means said person is most likely stuck with it, atleast for this life, and/or until their can be some 'seriously powerful magic' used to 'correct it', which I doubt could happen/work. Thank you for chewing us out by saying the same thing we are saying. Again, good job. Lol "Stuck with it". I'm sorry but what the ********. How can you be stuck with a previous life that you lived through. IN FACT I guess that means that every life you are going to go through is just going to be a ******** up just because of one life? What happened to all the other lives before that life? What's going to happen after this life is it going to be a chain? What the hell, I don't think so. That's a pretty sad excuse. And yeah I did chew you out because I went piece by piece and didn't read the whole thing through. Thanks for point that out for me like I didn't already know that. :3 Quote: Because its not supposed to be there at all amoung humans. Meaning they are a freak, or special. Depends how you see it. Yes, potentially everyone could, but theres a thing we have called quality control, therians or otherkin, whatever the ******** we are calling them, are the ones that got though innoticed, unchecked, inclean, whatever you want to call it. And on a side note, who says there can't be therian animals, I mean if we are right about incarnating as animals, then maybe there are some animals that maybe have therian souls stuff of other animals, or *gasp* humans. *duh duh duh* Lol. Just lol. Everyone has had a past life, by you know the whole theory of reincarnation. That means that you aren't special. And Shall I refer to my essay on the whole "It's not supposed to be there at all among humans" line, it's section Numero: 3) Quotenesses: Quote: Secondly, how can you “know” what you “should have been”? You can’t even remember what you were like when you were two, how can you “know” what you “should have been”, when you can’t even remember your current body’s past? Thirdly, is there some big catalog in the sky where you can pick out what body you are going to be in? No, there isn’t. It’s not like the universe fumbled and messed up your body order. That’s one of the stupidest excuses for otherkin. What you “should have been” is what you are right now. End of story. Just because you’ve got these big ideas about what you “should have been” doesn’t mean they are true. They are nothing but false opinions that have been festering since you learned about otherkin in the first place. Quote: Pay attention to what you are saying as well as us, you just contradicted yourself. And AGAIN, good job. What the ******** are you talking about. In that other post I'm talking about new experiences in a body and in the second one I'm talking about energy and giving an example of how it flows between two different stages. Great job on point out the non-existant contradiction. :3 Quote: Now, at this point I suspect you have been hit in the head with a baseball bat, and I think you deserve to again as well. I would like to point out, I am not argueing how it is good to be therian/otherkin. I agree that if you can't learn anything new because you are obsessed with your past live(s) like some therians/otherkins seem to be, then you're right dragonic, they are whiney bizatches, though in some cases as psychology has taught us, maybe its not their fault they can't get over it. Ever hear of OCD? We can't control our thoughts, so if we are obsessed with something, we would need help learning a way to cope with it. Lol. Great excuse, OCD, I'm OCD. I have a serious problem with germs. I have problems going to school, but I'm a genius in math and sciences because I constantly obsess about making everything correct. To the point where I'm ruining everyone elses huge erasers. In fact I think I scared my chemistry teacher. xD Lol. Anyway, point is that's the hugest excuse for it. "Well we have OCD". That's a human diease (if you will). So if it's human then it wouldn't be effecting your past life because that essetinally probably isn't human at the rate we are going. I think I'm going to add onto my Essay. Because that was definately a new excuse. ;3 Quote: Yes, correct, it is supposed to jumble all together, on a seperate level. Ofcourse alot of this arguement so far, currently, and to come is up to debate depending on individial beleifs, but as goes; you are you, here on the earth, as an extention of your "total being". The level were everything is supposed to jumble together is your "higher self". You here are supposed to be the innocent, clean energy, new experience part of you, were you at death, drop off everything you've learned with your higherself (so to speak), and then go onto another new life. "Higher self", "total being"? Unfortunately going with the actual terms of Reincarnation there is no such thing. Every life and every piece of it goes with you every time you go into another body. However it could just be repressed for later use. Such as a specific talent for let's art. You don't just start over with a clean slate. Especially in reincarnation. After all the goal of it is to aline yourself with a God (or a god-like thing) and become one with it. How can you become one with something if you are incomplete? Quote: and you are just dense enough to miss even what I am right about. *innocent smile* And your mass can probably out way me by five times. ::innocent smile:: Quote: I didn't say 'my logic' I said logic, meaning whomever is in the situations that we may be describing. Its their logic in question in the circumstances, if they were to arise. My logic is only fallacy logic under your fallacy logic, or the fallacy logic of others. So, if one of your, mine, or a third parties logic is correct, that automatically means the other two parties logic is then fallacy logic. You stated "we" which refers to you. So if someone says we should all jump off the side of bridge two of us are going to do it? :/ I doubt this much. Logic is a tricky little b*****d. I could "Logically" think about how muffins come to be from aliens and it still wouldn't be correct. If you have no proof to back up your logic, might as well not have bothered to say it. :3 Quote: However, the first point of anything to do with magic as 'we' (in a general sense) is that you have to atleast accept that we believe it is real. Oh really? I've seen people do magic and not believe one little bit that magic is real or that it exists at all. :3 And I'm sorry I don't have a good example of that, but let's say Athestic Witchcraft (though I'm one who doesn't believe this exists to a point. So bare with me here.) One who believes in basically nil but yet practices witchcraft. Do their spells work less or more because of that? :/ I dunno. Since the actual work of magic could be considered circumcental (sp?). Quote: Do you think I would get anywere arguing with a fairly devout christian about what jesus could do, if he could do anything, and such other parts of what they believe to be real? If you were talking with an Orthodox you wouldn't have any arguement with them. But if you're talking to a Mormon you have severe arguements with them. :3 So it all just depends on some sort of "fact", doesn't it? Quote: you might like to apply the same to further 'magic' related arguments. Do you really want to be a slug? For a whole lifetimes? Do you think you would be more likely to remember a few good things about the life, or a few bad things about the life? Most likely the bad things, as from what I can imagine (oh! theres that word you like) it would probably be easier to remember a less then pleasant part of a slugs life in this weird hypothetical situation. For a whole Lifetime you mean. Sure a slug. I'd probably more or less remember what it's like being a slug than any of the experiences done to or by the slug. Since after all the slugs lead a very small and almost non-existant social life. XD No parties for slug damnit. xD Quote: [sarcasm]Yes, because you certainly don't seem to be able to grasp the meaning of what the term is[/sarcasm] You know what I meant, so why did you feel the need to say such a pointless thing? Because I don't like people whiping terms out of their butt. :/ /: Quote: And the people I know who can tell the difference between..blah blah...agree that it seems to be a decent chance that 'the war' will happen. Now, we ALL have doubts about it, as any half brained person should, but from 'our' experiences, we have enough to doubt 'the doubt' and think there might be a chance 'we' are right about there being a war comming, if it stays decently likely to take place. Maybe you should explain to me this whole war thing, because your logic seems to be falling apart due to misconseption and/or sheer denseness. :3 Because let's seem how many thing has DF heard over the years about what the "war" is that supposedly either A) Happening now (But since I don't see no unicorns fighting with hellbeast I guess that ain't right) or B) is going to happen. 1) Merging of Planes. This is what some people consider the whole "war" to me about. The merging of astral planes. This one and possibly the higher one or the lower one because this plane is unstable with all the energy on it. However, why hasn't it happened in the past? Is it because I dunno, the Black plague wiped out humanity before the planes had time to merge, or what? If it's going to merge it must have merged somewhere down the line as well. /: I doubt there are any recordings of mergements any where. 2) That all the Otherkin are warriors here to fight for all the little humans. What the hell? Me man you woman, complex much? Last time I checked Humans were very capable of fighting for themselves. 3) Otherkins are here to eat humans! Lol. What the hell, canbalism much. Now granted I've heard more and because they are so rideculous, I'm not evn going to post them. xD So you tell me, Mr. Logical and Fantastic (Or Mrs. :/) what exactly is the supposed war about. Quote: Really? Heres some math what I've said so far+lets see=Your argument being less substantial, meaning hers comparatively is holds more water. Lol, you're math sucks. Your arguement combined with hers barely holds a drop of water. It's all theortical bullshite. And Yet DF actually has some science and math and facts in it. let's weigh these out. I think DF wins this round. Quote: She is saying that things are different there in such a way as things here do not have enough relativity to be properly understood, beleived, or scrutinized. This goes back to 'experiences'. Anything else I could say would be just repeating this exact quote from psychelapis. can't use logic of this world...only way at moment to be sure its true is expeience and trusting in it yourself. XD. Again, The Insane think he is sane. You can't trust you're brain. I established that in what, number 7. Quote: Nice job AGAIN, with being specific. If you mean about you not researching to know about the war, its because you seem to not have presented any info, what so ever, none the less being new. If its about her having sight, I believe (ohmygawd, another key word, again!!) she has it from my experiences (ohmygawd another keyword, again!!eleventlyONE) xD No, I meant, Mr (mrs.) Pants pants, that she needs to prove that everyone believes what she states, that there is a war. Quotenesses Quote: what the supposed otherkin are saying. That means everyone who titles themselve otherkin. Prove it. Quote: if you did, you would know about the war. . I knew about the war even before I met anyone becuase I have sight to some degree. . If she's not otherkin then obviously she wouldn't know about it silly. That's what you said right. See the post above. Quote: Yes, we can't remember things from when we were two, or other unimportant things in our life/lives, so thusly it makes sense if we can't remember every past life, or every part of every/any past life. ^_^ Thank you. :3 This is why I utterly refuse to believe in otherkin, and why it's my first you know arguement that if you can't remember everything then how are you remembering something? ;/ XD Quote: I totally agree with everything you just said *hug*. ~ Gets loved on... What the heck? O: Quote: These a chance that might be true, but most likely I'm sure your right atleast in thinking they are wrong, if not for your specific argument being correct. That whole throwing in the totemn animal bit I haven't exactly explained well. And I was meaning to go back and fix it. But alas... I haven't got to it yet. Quote: I agree and disagree. You're right about alot of what you just said, but with the power, understanding, and depth of imagination, I'm sure we(not everyone, just some) can be close enough to 'knowing' what something is like to not be able to tell the difference if there was a way to test how accurate the persons idea/experience is. But again, you're most likely correct. : D! Quote: No comment out of sheer lack of opinion or care for this. I think the bold title is skewed in what it is saying, and I think that from the best understanding I can get, the title of this arguement (if said to me) would cause me to try to not laugh at the person saying it. I've heard it used before. It's sheer laughing stock of all things metaphysics. I miss you hume :: runs and huggles hume.:: Quote: Yes, meaning it is likely that they could be wrong about. However, out of past lives, and being 'cleansed of past energies' logically(uhoh, logic) this means that if you were a therian in a past life, but at the end cleansed, then the therian part and that life are gone. The only way to be something like that would be a therian more then one life in a row, which would be a very rare and akward situation I'm not going to go into in this. But logically(uhoh, x2) it would be your last life that you are the most likely to remeber, or last several lives in that weird hypothetical/rare thing I just stated. Again, Reincarnation = the sum of everything. Sin-sin was trying to tell me this too and I was like no freakin' way buddah. biggrin Every life is still with you, but it could just be repressed. Now granted there are something that are possibly going to be cleansed, either experiences that you've already had before or just things you plain just don't want to remember. But still you can't just say "HOMG CLEAN SLATE" every time you come out of a body. Defeats the purpose. Quote: I am argueing that you can remember parts of any given past life, not the whole thing. I am also arguing that few people can remember more then a handful, if the can even remember one. Could be a hallucination. :3 Quote: However, a key word here is believing. Which is a fail safe? Quote: That was an asstonishingly good pounding Dorian.. . . lol. . keep up the good work. . *so I dont have to type so much* Lol, what pound and work? Good is only perceptive. :3
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:52 am
Oh my the long quoting bishiness is back *convulses on floor*
Anyway to say the same thing maybe a little Shorter?
Everyone has had an Incarnation Not necassarily a reincarnation. A reincarnation is chucking off one form and adopting another. If you have never reincarnated you wouldn't have a reincarnation. Lets say people who this is there first time on earth but have had an extended period of time in the realms as there Original Form.
So Remember the THREE DEVISIONS TO FORMS
Original form
Soul Form
Current Form
All forms after the First incarnation are adopted forms meant to last for the duration of that life.
People of cource cling to such forms in death sometimes and forget about there original form.
While of cource when your in this form you adopt this form as your current form. For the duration of this life you have this form.
You live and interact with this form till you die.
You die hopefully you resume your Original form get over this one and incorporate what you learned in this existance into the synthesis of knowledge of existance.
Weather it is good or bad right or wrong to be attached to a previous state of being I think would go along with the same definition of what is a mental illness. Does it impair the individual at all? Does it cause any problems? Does it endanger them selves or others?
Most fo the time this is a no! A big Fat doesn't do s**t to actually affect them accept hey look I rememeber I used to have wings and weren't they pretty. Unless it gets to the point of actually causeing a problem let it rest.
And on a side note... Slugs Mikensy LOL
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:02 am
Oh as to reliability... A Mock conversation
Me: Hello dear sir... You can see spirits yes?
Him: Why Yes I can... why do you ask?
Me: Oh well I just wanted to know what I looked like in the realms...
Him: You look like a winged Horse with Swirly stripes!
Me: Kies
_________
Next encounter With Her
Me: Hello Madame... You can see spirits yes?
Her: Why Yes I can... why do you ask?
Me: Oh well I just wanted to know what I looked like in the realms...
Her: You look like a winged Horse!
Me: Can you not see the colors or shapes...?
Her: My sight is not that good... But I can tell general shapes
Me: Then I am probably a winged horse since thats what people keep seeing!
Hurrah for wingedness!
Proper testing and question asking ends up confering reliablity!
In this case it is based purely on seeming rather then actualy being that would take much more Severe efforts to second.
Still That people see the same things when niether Him nor Her knew each other generally means you have Reliable DATA
Reliability means that(under the same circumstances) you can get the same results over and over and over again as long as the same methods are used.
testing is important...
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:28 am
Sin-sin. You miss me? Cause I missed you. <3 Dude, we have a messed up freak in TOWT And I think it spawned other messed up freaks. It's upsettin' me. ;/ Plus I'm having exams and I don't have time for all the nonsense... :/ Quote: Oh my the long quoting bishiness is back *convulses on floor* I can't help I'm sexy Gosh. xD "Bishie" xDD Quote: Everyone has had an Incarnation Not necassarily a reincarnation. A reincarnation is chucking off one form and adopting another. If you have never reincarnated you wouldn't have a reincarnation. Lets say people who this is there first time on earth but have had an extended period of time in the realms as there Original Form. Whoa, whoa now. Incarnation is the current form. :3 Reincarnation is the cycle of switching bodies, correctnesses. xD And the Goal of Reincarnation is to have as many experiences as possible to gain oneness with some sort off upper level power, yes. :3 SWEET MOVING ON! Quote: So Remember the THREE DEVISIONS TO FORMS Original form Soul Form Current Form Ok why are we dividing forms now? 1) You wouldn't count your original body because it's just one experienced life time and there could possibly be a number of multiple other lives that one could have had before that so called "original" body. :3 2) Since when do souls have form? But alas, let's say all the souls do have a permanet form, the slug shape no fit into the human shape. That means that the body would have to fit the shape of the soul for the soul to go into it. Tis why souls don't have forms. x3 (Well I like to think of them as balls of energy that smooth out over the complete body form like butter. :3 So I guess in that sense that it would have a form, but it's not a form that is a constant. : D) 3) Current body, yes, which is human. And because the other two supposed forms are theortical, they can and will be (xF For this explaination) null and void. Thus why worry about them. You human, DOOD! : D... wait... DOODETTE <3 Sin-sin :: pet pet:: Quote: All forms after the First incarnation are adopted forms meant to last for the duration of that life. Says whom? Quote: People of cource cling to such forms in death sometimes and forget about there original form. Or make up their own "original" form and/or the concept of original form. : D xD :: bad DF bad:: Quote: You die hopefully you resume your Original form get over this one and incorporate what you learned in this existance into the synthesis of knowledge of existance. Why should you retain your original form? When you've gone through X amount of lives, each with it's own experineces. That should in the end probably manipulate the 'form" itself. Thus changing it. Therefore there woul be no original form only a temporary ever changing form. (SUCH AS THE BALL THAT SQUISHES ITSELF INTO OTHER FORMS LIKE PLAYDOUGH! :O ) Quote: Weather it is good or bad right or wrong to be attached to a previous state of being I think would go along with the same definition of what is a mental illness. Does it impair the individual at all? Does it cause any problems? Does it endanger them selves or others? Are you giving examples of only bad things...? Why?! It could improve the form though I've already established that it doesn't have a form. XD Quote: Proper testing and question asking ends up confering reliablity! In this case it is based purely on seeming rather then actualy being that would take much more Severe efforts to second. Still That people see the same things when niether Him nor Her knew each other generally means you have Reliable DATA Reliability means that(under the same circumstances) you can get the same results over and over and over again as long as the same methods are used. Never been to say one of those you know "psychic meetings" where supposed psychics bring forth parents or people that are dead? Well all it takes is one person to be the "mole" in the crowd asking people who they hope to meet and then the mole relays that information to supposed psychic and WALLAH! We have our psychic coming down with Granny Smith. Second, I don't believe people's personal experiences UNLESS I know for fact that they aren't bullshitters. Now some people might not of course be bllshitters, but they could have not thought all the way through their experiences. Such as suddenly smelling roses in a downstairs room. Is there a hole in the wall perhaps, where roses are planted outside? Maybe someone who was just visiting in your house was wearing roses? Maybe some rose scents floated through the window, etc etc. I expect no one to believe any of my experiences and I believe no one unless I know that they have probably gone through several times in their minds and hearts over weither or not that experiences was true. Now, Sin-sin, I will be quoting my Essay on this. here it is: Quote: 2) "Otherkin Exists because when we astral project out of our bodies we can take the form of a (insert misc. Myth. Creature.)" Ok, how do you know you're astral projecting? Why should I believe you in the first place about your personal experience that you have no evidence on? Let's pretend I believe you. In any dream you can gain control of your dream and make it happen as you want. Essentially that's where you can start astral projecting. You can willingly change your form in this state of lucid dreaming and become something completely else. If I can make Johnny Depp appear in my dreams, you can make yourself look like a (insert misc. Myth. creature.) Go look up some facts (notice facts, aka not some Silver Ravenwolf BS…) about Lucid Dreaming, and we’ll continue on how you are a “mythical creature” when you dream/astral project. You can go into a state of day dreaming at any time in the day or night. Which might cause you to fall asleep which could cause some astral projection WHICH CAN BE ALTERED TO FIT A PARTICULAR IDEAL. In fact one can even make up energy (oh dear gawd DF's using vague termonolgy. xD ) to even look like something else. Like right now I could go up to HIM and HER and place an image in my mind that I want to be true so hard that it manifests itself over one's self giving the illusion (notice illlllllluuuussiiiooonnnn = Magician people. Now we can all stop using Magick for the spelling of magic, damnit. /Side rant) of a certain form. Which is very very likely. Specially if you do it subconsiously. The mind, it's the ebel. :3
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:49 pm
*face palm*
(edit-you were let into the guild because the guild leader is not an elitest, and will let in anyone, and only ban from there after if they are counterproductive assholes, like me)
I think you have been reading our posts, but I think you've beem reading only for "flaws" that you don't understand because you aren't really trying to piece together all that we are/have been saying.
Heres some things I want you to acknowledge.
-Alot of things are circumstancial.
-People have personal faiths. Which means there are probaby some similarities between things, and obviously some differences. I cannot say what the ratio is because that would be circumstancial.
-People may have different definitions or ideas of what magic is or the meaning of it (basically I said the same thing twice there).
-We might be insane, and thusly our logic/ideas/brains cannot be trusted.
-You too could be insane, and this situation is flip sided.
-So far in this argument, it seems to be two people and me against you, meaning it probably seems to some (I said some) specataters we're more likely (I said likely) to be right in this.
-The use of any language, in this case the somewhat infamous english language, can only portray so much of what one is tryin to say.
-Multiple meanings by definition, or (multiple meanings) because of peoples personal ideas, can cause misconseptions.
-You have taken some things we said out of context, either because you just didn't understand them, or because you are trying your best to point out any flaw you can and are creating fake flaws in our argument (pretending to be dense) to do so.
Now, if you can agree to what I said, then I cannot hold to the idea you are just reading to fight, not learn.
You said you have friends who practice magic, but do not believe in it. Now I would ask for you to elaborate more, but for sake of time I will answer several possibilities to risk shortening this argument. Now, if they are practicing it, that means they are either idiots who are doing something they know is pointless, and obviously wasting time energy and maybe money, or they believe it will work somehow. Maybe they have a different idea of what is happening or why/how it is happening/working. Whatever that is, that is their equivilent of what I(and a few others) think of as magic. In which case what they think the word magic means, and what we think it means are different things.
What Sin ment by original form, is before your first incarnation, not your first incarnation. I suppose for a lack of better words to properly tell you what I mean, it is a pre incarnation before actual incarnations.
(from what I gathered from what you said. {It seems} You thought Sin ment a persons first incarnation, which she didn't. Meaning you misunderstood a phrase that everyone I have talked to has been able to grasp, I'm sorry you didn't.)
And most of use do not use psychics that you would find at carnivals, or whatever you were describing. We are also not talking about those psychics who ask you about things, then tell you things (because they made connection between what you said to say something you haven't).
There is several things decent (non idiot) magic related things people pay attention to to weed out what is most likely not true.
There are several layers to what you could see about someones 'form'. I would not/will not argue about the how, why, and probability because I doubt most methods, and the ones I don't I don't really care about because they (actually all of the methods) are unimportant to me.
Spirit form is a phrase to mean whatever the equivilant of a form would be for that inbetween incarnations stage, or one of them, whatever it would be in whomever you're talking to's idea of what its like inbetween incarnations (assuming they are not atheist, and believe in REincarnation)
Also, I think an idea of reincarnation is what you would refer to as an incarnation that comes after a subjective incarnation.
It could also just be refering to the (whole) process, or what you said.
Heres some things I would like to point out about myself.
-I dislike spelling magic with a capitol 'm' unless its the first word of a sentace or in a name, and I also dislike adding the 'k', or making the 'g' a 'j'.
-I have severe doubts about everything to do with magic and metaphysics.
-I don't mind humouring the idea and thinking about things like that when I have the time to. Maybe because I wish it was real (if it isn't), maybe because I'm in it for kicks, maybe because I do believe it is real but don't like to get my hopes up?
-The majority of what I discuss with other people I don't give any notice to. Maybe its because I don't beleive in it, maybe its because I really don't see how it has any relation to me/would be important to me. Maybe its because I know they are thinking the same thing about as me, and so I don't have to voice my opinion.
-I have not asked people to tell me if I was therian. I do not think I am therian, and I have not had anyone tell me I am theiran. If I am, I have not noticably had it change anything about me. If I am not, I don't care to think I am. Like you suggested, (but I have been doing so for a long time) I do not care or bother about that since it is not important to me.
-I am not argueing for my self.
Other things...
The idea is that when you die, you shed the energy of that life. So can you see were if you are a therian, at the end of this life when you die, your current energy (**and the energy that makes you a therian**) would be removed.
(Unless its a freak reoccurence) In which case, it would **not** continue to be therian for life after life.
And my head is hurting by trying to understand how you don't get what everyone should know with the following.
You used the whole, "You cannot remember things from when you were two" to ask how could a therian remember a life.
I said, "But you can remember parts of your current life" (meaning not the whole complete thing). Now, can you deny how a therian could have a few memories of a past life. (I never said remember their whole life, I said a few memories meaning maybe from after they were two, hmm, think about that? Hypothetically hey have a whole life to remember a few things from).
Since when did we say only therians could know about the war? We only implied that they would be much more likely to be aware of it.
I also never said beleif is foolproof. But its the same idea as 'the benifit of the doubt'. I said I doubt almost everything. In several magic communites I have come across odd coincidences. These same coincidences have arised in some people in my personal life that I know have no way of being connect to the previously mentioned communities. I have come across 'things' magically that coincidentally point to a war. So, I figure, I might as well not say its definatly not going to happen. Do you understand that example, that theres either, believe or don't. The thing here is that most of the time 'we' do believe in certain things.
You also mentioned that I said 'we', meaning I agree with other people. To clear that up a little, I mean we simply because I share some (and varying) beleifs/notions with a variety of people. Maybe some more with some then others of them...that doesn't mean I beleive, or have an interest in everything.
Now, some theory.
The idea of therian is that it is energy from you last life. From the life you just had.(atleast by the definition we arte using)
Meaning that the things they think, if confirmed from outside sources would say more or less what their last life was.
Alright, and finally, I have alot of doubt about the war. For when I put that to the side, I don't even really care. I suspect it is to come, well that means I can't change it. I suspect it will not come, then no worries. I could try to find out what I could, and maybe plan out things, but I really don't care enough. Just a personaly choice, such as beleiving in things is a choice. (though maybe the choices are less concious then what most people consider choices)
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:51 pm
And I would like to take this moment to point out that the names otherkin and therian mean two different things. Now because some people have the definitions switched around (I don't know or care to find out which is the correct ones) the arguments has also been likely to be using the wrong words to start with, let alone what each persons minor personal difference may be in what they think it means. Personal ideas can vary minutly, or greatly, am I wrong about that? So you should know what I am saying here, since I have failed to come up with the best way to arrange my words to convey what I am trying to say. You have not established anything in your arguement, neither have we. You have just stated a circumstantial thing and won't acknowledge other possibilites(our fallacy logic) because of your fallacy logic. Also, you can acknowledge higher and lower planes, (with the astral one), but not acknowledge the idea of higher and lower selves? P.S. ITS A METAPHOR, meaning your higher and lower selves would be the parts of you that are repressed for this life. Things are not as literal as you think in these discussions, get used to it, and remember it. {Just to save posts} dragonicflames Sinesthera All forms after the First incarnation are adopted forms meant to last for the duration of that life. Says whom? A common idea that she has, I acknowledge, and a number of other people share or acknowledge. dragonicflames Sinesthera Weather it is good or bad right or wrong to be attached to a previous state of being I think would go along with the same definition of what is a mental illness. Does it impair the individual at all? Does it cause any problems? Does it endanger them selves or others? Are you giving examples of only bad things...? Why?! It could improve the form though I've already established that it doesn't have a form. XD By asking why is it bad, why would it be bad, she is indirectly saying it could be good. You just didn't read enough to understand*cough*piecetogether*cough* what she was really saying. So you just blatently said (and tried to make fun of her with) what she was actually saying. Good jorb (not a typo).
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:22 pm
DragonicFlames Why should you retain your original form? When you've gone through X amount of lives, each with it's own experineces. That should in the end probably manipulate the 'form" itself. Thus changing it. Therefore there woul be no original form only a temporary ever changing form. (SUCH AS THE BALL THAT SQUISHES ITSELF INTO OTHER FORMS LIKE PLAYDOUGH! :O ) do you realise that what you are suggesting and arguing for here would actually support otherkinism if it were actually true?. . which is why it seems you are just trying to find flaws and you are not even considering the possibility that otherkin's are real. . DragonicFlames In fact one can even make up energy (oh dear gawd DF's using vague termonolgy. xD ) to even look like something else. Like right now I could go up to HIM and HER and place an image in my mind that I want to be true so hard that it manifests itself over one's self giving the illusion (notice illlllllluuuussiiiooonnnn = Magician people. Now we can all stop using Magick for the spelling of magic, damnit. /Side rant) of a certain form. Which is very very likely. Specially if you do it subconsiously. The mind, it's the ebel. :3 likewise(assuming you actually have sight and use it), you could be supressing any information or proof of otherkinism becuase you disagree with it. DragonicFlames Lol "Stuck with it". I'm sorry but what the ********. How can you be stuck with a previous life that you lived through. IN FACT I guess that means that every life you are going to go through is just going to be a ******** up just because of one life? What happened to all the other lives before that life? What's going to happen after this life is it going to be a chain? What the hell, I don't think so. That's a pretty sad excuse. And yeah I did chew you out because I went piece by piece and didn't read the whole thing through. Thanks for point that out for me like I didn't already know that. :3 otherkinism isnt normal. . it isnt suposed to happen. . soemting happened in someones live and they werent able to let it go. . so, they held onto the energy of their past becuase they couldnt move on from it. . DragonicFlames Lol. Just lol. Everyone has had a past life, by you know the whole theory of reincarnation. That means that you aren't special. Dorian and I said already we arent claiming to be otherkin, so, your accusations are groundless.. . and again, AGAIN. . not everyone who has been a dragon or whatever in a past life is otherkin, just the ones that werent able to let go of that energy. . DragonicFlames "Higher self", "total being"? Unfortunately going with the actual terms of Reincarnation there is no such thing. Every life and every piece of it goes with you every time you go into another body. However it could just be repressed for later use. Such as a specific talent for let's art. You don't just start over with a clean slate. Especially in reincarnation. After all the goal of it is to aline yourself with a God (or a god-like thing) and become one with it. How can you become one with something if you are incomplete? no, everything doesnt just happen like that. . the higher self is the ideal you, the you that you are suposed to be. . in them they hold basically all your previous knowledge and like a footnoting of your past selves. .or, well, your past selves could be separate entities connected to you but not like, merged into one consiousness exactly. . anywyas, back onto the higher self. . you are supposed to merge with them to become who you are supposed to be, that place you are supposed to hold in the universe. . that counter-balance to the others that are all around you. . everything is supposed to equal out and be perfectly balanced if everyone were to accept who they truely are . now, not everyone has a separate higher self but can have one that is supressed, but not allowed to have one that is like, all you since that is against the rules . . since you have to actually try to be what you are suposed to be. . lol. . DragonicFlames If you have no proof to back up your logic, might as well not have bothered to say it. :3 you dont have any proof. . you are just making "logical" assumptions. . I dont know about Dorian, but, I have researched, talked to people about their information, checked it against others. . then, I have done my own research into sensing out other peoples energy and checking out their past and the such. .what have you done to try to check things out?. . if I sent you a picture of an otherkin could you sense their energy and tell me what you get?. . can you sense energy?. . do you have sight?. . DragonicFlames Maybe you should explain to me this whole war thing, because your logic seems to be falling apart due to misconseption and/or sheer denseness. :3 Because let's seem how many thing has DF heard over the years about what the "war" is that supposedly either A) Happening now (But since I don't see no unicorns fighting with hellbeast I guess that ain't right) or B) is going to happen. 1) Merging of Planes. This is what some people consider the whole "war" to me about. The merging of astral planes. This one and possibly the higher one or the lower one because this plane is unstable with all the energy on it. However, why hasn't it happened in the past? Is it because I dunno, the Black plague wiped out humanity before the planes had time to merge, or what? If it's going to merge it must have merged somewhere down the line as well. /: I doubt there are any recordings of mergements any where. 2) That all the Otherkin are warriors here to fight for all the little humans. What the hell? Me man you woman, complex much? Last time I checked Humans were very capable of fighting for themselves. 3) Otherkins are here to eat humans! Lol. What the hell, canbalism much. surely, but, I doubt you would understand it at this rate. . basically, the universe has to stay in balance for things to go well. . if it goes out of balance, then it could cause other systems to go out of balance and like dominos it could do a lot of damage if not neutralized quickly. . the planet is a major energetic force in the universe. . we on earth affect the planet. . the civilization that exists on this planet is out of balance, and the counterbalance is also out of balance. . the energetic strain on the system is killing the planet. . if the planet dies, then the systems around it go out of balance, and whatever binds are supported by the earth fall and access to what was being protected is made.. .anyways, things need to change so that the planet doesnt die, to ensure the stability of the system. . otherkin are here to well, fix the situation. .well, help. . when things happen (if they happen as of course certain key people could fail to do what they need to do and then we are all ********). . anwyyas, otherkin are here so that their will be peopel who know what has to be done. . orchestrate things. . do their tasks. . etc. . which just happens to be at the end getting everything off this planet, dead or alive. . lol. . becuase, the planet needs to rebalance at an energetic level, and that means everything needs to get the ******** off. . lol. . the easiest way to accomplish this is to unlease a bunch of beasts(therians) to start a war and kill everyone, each other, etc. . now, natually this will require a mearging of the astral. . no easy task since their is a veil kinda their to stop that from happening. . lol. . now, I saw the war and even saw a major player in what is supposed to be the war in a vision like, 3-4 years before I A. met him B. knew anything bout the war or otherkin. lol. . . now, considering I expereinced this first hand, and was like holy ********, you!. . I know you. . O.O. . I saw you. . WTF *TWEEK*. . I tend to beleive that this is a major possibility. . DragonicFlames xD No, I meant, Mr (mrs.) Pants pants, that she needs to prove that everyone believes what she states, that there is a war. well, the only way I can see of making everyone beleive is to read everyone and tell them things that I could not have possibly known if I didnt atleast have some sight or ASSLOADS of good luck and guessing abilities. . he didnt trust me at first but then I looked into something that all he gave me was a name, nothing more. . and, I came up with quite a bit of what he already knew. . . then I told him what I noticed about his energy, something that he has that someone else has . . again, not something I would have gotten if I have no energetic ability. .among a few other things. . now, naturally he doesnt think that I know everything and am 100% perfect. .but, I think he beleives that atleast what I say is worth checking into and may be true. . now, I cant do that for everyone to make them atleast consider I may have something. . I dont have the time or energy for that s**t. . DragonicFlames If she's not otherkin then obviously she wouldn't know about it silly. That's what you said right. See the post above. just becuase I dont claim to be otherkin doesnt mean that I dont have sight.. you can be "human" and have sight. . gawds. . DragonicFlames ^_^ Thank you. :3 This is why I utterly refuse to believe in otherkin, and why it's my first you know arguement that if you can't remember everything then how are you remembering something? ;/ XD well, applying that, we dont exist, becuase I dont remember when I was 2 I must not have been, so I must not be real. . nice way to talk yourself into a hole. . . seriously. . if we were to go at things like that, then you are not only disproving otherkins but reality in general. .so, if you dont believe in reality in general, why are you bothering to argue about something that may or may not exist in reality? DragonicFlames Again, Reincarnation = the sum of everything. Sin-sin was trying to tell me this too and I was like no freakin' way buddah. icon_biggrin.gif Every life is still with you, but it could just be repressed. Now granted there are something that are possibly going to be cleansed, either experiences that you've already had before or just things you plain just don't want to remember. But still you can't just say "HOMG CLEAN SLATE" every time you come out of a body. Defeats the purpose. who said that you would get a clean slate?. . not perfectly. . it is like, if you are normal then your other lives are like a footnote, whereas if you are otherkin, it is bold and clearly part of the text of the current life. . it is still in your energy either way, just, otherkin it isnt just that you get the knowledge and lessens in your energy, your energetic body is still has a lot of its previous form. . DragonicFlames Could be a hallucination. :3 everything in existance could be a hallucination. . you would have to get into the nature of the universe and existance if you wanted to play that card. .
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:31 pm
Gawd, finally. What do you wait till like nine o clock to answer posts. gonk Quote: (edit-you were let into the guild because the guild leader is not an elitest, and will let in anyone, and only ban from there after if they are counterproductive assholes, like me) XD I heart you too. :3 Quote: I think you have been reading our posts, but I think you've beem reading only for "flaws" that you don't understand because you aren't really trying to piece together all that we are/have been saying. I think you've been reading every post I have made with a pompous self-centered and all knowing and always correct attitude. You aren't even bothering to look at it my way at all. While I have already looked at it from several different points of view, thus my essay using many different arguements to disprove the whole theory of otherkin. I find that very rude. And that's quite frankly why Pajammies hasn't responded to you. You call me dense, if I'm dense, lol what does that make you? No atom can go through you? If you aren't going to bother looking at it through my eyes don't even bother to respond because I will continuely shut you down like I've been doing. I understand otherkinism. And I find it a false, idealistic, brainwashing and almost idiotic. So don't come off all pompous like you're s**t smells better than mine. >/ Quote: Heres some things I want you to acknowledge. Oh goodie. Do I get to do that for you? Quote: -Alot of things are circumstancial. Which is why you rarely bring up an arguement or sub-arguement with only "I believe" or "I think" as if it is fact. Quote: -People have personal faiths. Which means there are probaby some similarities between things, and obviously some differences. I cannot say what the ratio is because that would be circumstancial. Oh really? I didn't realize that, I'm sorry. I thought we all practiced the same way. I never really understood that whole why Christians and Muslims hate everyone. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good Job. /Sarcasm. Quote: -People may have different definitions or ideas of what magic is or the meaning of it (basically I said the same thing twice there). Really? Wow. I thought everyone had the same definition. MAI BAD! /sarcasm. I personally believe that magic is a type of energy. :E (Oh lookie, I said it as a belief and not as a fact. That's how it's done.) Quote: -We might be insane, and thusly our logic/ideas/brains cannot be trusted. -You too could be insane, and this situation is flip sided. Wow, the whole "NO U!111!!!1one!" excuse. :/ Yes everyone is at least somewhat insane. Which is why I am constantly asking myself what is reality and what isn't. Which is another reason why I study, or at least review philosophy. My perception of reality is the only thing I have as a real concrete fact. XD And all things spawn from this. Which could also means that "Since I'm the only one who exists, and can prove that I exist", what I say goes. :3 xD DF and her philosophy... :: eats hume's pants, but that was a descartes quote though. :: Quote: -So far in this argument, it seems to be two people and me against you, meaning it probably seems to some (I said some) specataters we're more likely (I said likely) to be right in this. Who's "we're"? :3 Oh, so if you out number me some how you're correct? What kind of logic is that. Christianity is one of the most highly practiced religions so because they outweigh me (numbers wise), they are correct? I don't think so. Quote: -The use of any language, in this case the somewhat infamous english language, can only portray so much of what one is tryin to say. Correct. I often have a hard time trying to describe what I need to describe but that doesn't hold me back from trying. Right now I'm seeing this whole little dealy as a little side step around the whole "Explain to me what this war is about". Quote: -Multiple meanings by definition, or (multiple meanings) because of peoples personal ideas, can cause misconseptions. Specially when they are used out of context. Look at the whole Gardener wiccan/witch thing. Witches =/= Wiccans. Though there are some witches who are wiccans. :3 Quote: -You have taken some things we said out of context, either because you just didn't understand them, or because you are trying your best to point out any flaw you can and are creating fake flaws in our argument (pretending to be dense) to do so. What the ********? Thanks for that excuse. It seems to me like you are taking what I say out of context and confusing it in your brain to what I'm saying. I've pointed out your flaws because they are flaws. If it's broken fix it. If it's not broken don't break it. Since otherkin philosophy is broken, then it ain't right or correct and can lead someone an innocent newbie shall we into believe something that isn't true. Exactly how Silver Ravenwolf is. And watch I bet you hate Silver Ravenwolf to the point of trying to bash in her brains. Quote: You said you have friends who practice magic, but do not believe in it. Now I would ask for you to elaborate more, but for sake of time I will answer several possibilities to risk shortening this argument. No. I said I have friends who practice Witchcraft. Magic and witchcraft are two different things. See, that whole little spouting you did over top here about how I'm confusing things and how I'm taking things out of context. No, it's not me. It's you. Don't call the kettle black if you don't know what color you are. Quote: Now, if they are practicing it, that means they are either idiots who are doing something they know is pointless, and obviously wasting time energy and maybe money, or they believe it will work somehow. So they are idiots now, because they practice witchcraft which is not automatically magic? Bullshit. Maybe you should try again. :3 Quote: (from what I gathered from what you said. {It seems} You thought Sin ment a persons first incarnation, which she didn't. Meaning you misunderstood a phrase that everyone I have talked to has been able to grasp, I'm sorry you didn't.) Excuse me? You are assuming here. I knew what the hell she meant. But you didn't understand what I was saying. Maybe if I make in nice big letters for you, you'd understand. Quote: What Sin ment by original form, is before your first incarnation, not your first incarnation. I suppose for a lack of better words to properly tell you what I mean, it is a pre incarnation before actual incarnations. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN OTHER FORMS BEFORE THIS SUPPOSED "PRE-INCARNATION", AND BECAUSE YOU DO NOT REMEMBER ALL OF YOU'RE LIVES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM YOU CANNOT MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF "PRE-FORM" FOR ONESELF. Better? Quote: And most of use do not use psychics that you would find at carnivals, or whatever you were describing Assumption. I was talking about regular popular psychics that are supposedly really really "good" at what they do. It's a very simple possibly and process. If you had bothered to read it all the way through in stead of skimming it because that's what I feel like you're doing to my posts, you'd have understood that. Quote: There are several layers to what you could see about someones 'form'. I would not/will not argue about the how, why, and probability because I doubt most methods, and the ones I don't I don't really care about because they (actually all of the methods) are unimportant to me. Then why bring it up because guess what that just leads me to believe there aren't any 'layers' and you're just covering up her mistake. :/ Quote: Spirit form is a phrase to mean whatever the equivilant of a form would be for that inbetween incarnations stage, or one of them, whatever it would be in whomever you're talking to's idea of what its like inbetween incarnations (assuming they are not atheist, and believe in REincarnation) So because one is athetist one cannot reincarnate? Generalized assumption. Anyway, Spirit form can still be manipulated because you don't know what the "spirit" or "soul" is for sure. Thus an illusion, thus a hallucentation. Quote: Also, I think an idea of reincarnation is what you would refer to as an incarnation that comes after a subjective incarnation. It could also just be refering to the (whole) process, or what you said. Ok, what. xD Lemme try and dumb it down because big words do not make one look smarter. You believe reincarnation is an incarnation that comes after a first incarnation. Sort of. But no. Reincarnation is just another method for the soul, (In Df's opinion) to gather more experiences. So one could just suddenly start reincarnating and then stop and go somewhere, let's say "Lala land" for a good hundred or so years and say the soul gathers more experiences in Lala land and accidently drops off most of their human experiences. The soul would then restart another reincarnation cycle. Therefore one would not be able to say what is the soul's "true" form, because it forgot one experience. Which leads one to believe that it could forget as many as it wanted to. THUS it could forget many upon many upon many previous lives that it had before it entered another reincarnation cycle. However, For the Hindu reincarnation is the summing up of all experiences had. One goes through lives. There is no true form of the soul, meerly a soul that passes through bodies earning enough Dharma and Karma to get to mergement with a higher spirit aka God. Quote: -I dislike spelling magic with a capitol 'm' unless its the first word of a sentace or in a name, and I also dislike adding the 'k', or making the 'g' a 'j'. Hazaa... I randomly capitolize magic. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. :3 There is religious magic which should be capitolized with a capitol M. Quote: -I have severe doubts about everything to do with magic and metaphysics. Philosophy. Hume is gud. DF hearts the Hume. Because he hated all things metaphysic and called everyone previous to him basically a liar. He was kewl. <3 Quote: -I don't mind humouring the idea and thinking about things like that when I have the time to. Maybe because I wish it was real (if it isn't), maybe because I'm in it for kicks, maybe because I do believe it is real but don't like to get my hopes up? I doubt more than I let on. Sometimes I'll be sitting there in a car or somewhere and I'll basically crash into myself asking if my reality if everything is just all a lie. Philosophy, in one aspect, taught me that. Quote: -The majority of what I discuss with other people I don't give any notice to. Maybe its because I don't beleive in it, maybe its because I really don't see how it has any relation to me/would be important to me. Maybe its because I know they are thinking the same thing about as me, and so I don't have to voice my opinion. xD I see so he admits to skimming my posts. <3 Quote: -I have not asked people to tell me if I was therian. I do not think I am therian, and I have not had anyone tell me I am theiran. If I am, I have not noticably had it change anything about me. If I am not, I don't care to think I am. Like you suggested, (but I have been doing so for a long time) I do not care or bother about that since it is not important to me. XD Some how... I really hate you because your pompous attitude but love you on the inside for this. :/ I'm so confuzzled. D: XD Quote: -I am not argueing for my self. Why not? That's how we learn. Quote: The idea is that when you die, you shed the energy of that life. So can you see were if you are a therian, at the end of this life when you die, your current energy (**and the energy that makes you a therian**) would be removed. LOLZ! xD That means no more cat-man, slug-woman for thee. :/ Which like I said I don't believe in. That whole clean slate thing. I do however agree that somethings will be forgotten because of a) Un-willingness to remember or b) because it's basically a repeat experience. Quote: And my head is hurting by trying to understand how you don't get what everyone should know with the following. :/ Wtf? Pompous, much. Quote: You used the whole, "You cannot remember things from when you were two" to ask how could a therian remember a life. I said, "But you can remember parts of your current life" (meaning not the whole complete thing). Now, can you deny how a therian could have a few memories of a past life. (I never said remember their whole life, I said a few memories meaning maybe from after they were two, hmm, think about that? Hypothetically hey have a whole life to remember a few things from). XD. You didn't get what I was getting at with that. Yes, one could possibly remember a "few" things. But how does one know that these few things are even real? Just because our brain says so? Like I said, and I keep repeating myself over. Maybe if I drill it into your skull, perhaps? The Insane never believes or thinks that he is insane. Quote: Since when did we say only therians could know about the war? We only implied that they would be much more likely to be aware of it. And why is that, Mr. I'm special pants? Quote: I have come across 'things' magically that coincidentally point to a war. So, I figure, I might as well not say its definatly not going to happen xD I just had to giggle... I'm sorry. XD Your pun was great. x3 Quote: So, I figure, I might as well not say its definatly not going to happen. Do you understand that example, that theres either, believe or don't. The thing here is that most of the time 'we' do believe in certain things. "we" as in otherkin "we" as in people, "we" as in dicussionaries, "we" as the insane. We means nothing to me. We is like saying because a group of people are jumping off the bridge you're going to jump off too. I'd have some problems with that. You're not as fluffy as others and I may have to tie you down to the railing. It would be a fake bungey (sp?) jump for thee. So "we" being used as an example is pretty much not going to work at all against me. Quote: You also mentioned that I said 'we', meaning I agree with other people. To clear that up a little, I mean we simply because I share some (and varying) beleifs/notions with a variety of people. Maybe some more with some then others of them...that doesn't mean I beleive, or have an interest in everything. Un huh... You said we again. :: Bites... lolipop.:: I dun trust you enough to bite... you may have AB+ blood... can't let the poor dying people in Nevada go without their needed blood transfusions. : O Quote: The idea of therian is that it is energy from you last life. From the life you just had.(atleast by the definition we arte using) Meaning that the things they think, if confirmed from outside sources would say more or less what their last life was. Oh yes go one, splain it to DF like she doesn't understand. ;3 But yet not splain it. :/ DF shall fill in the blank. Therians (lolz, look theory in their name. : D) believe that the energy from one life messes up in the current life during the process of death. Thus they have the complex that they are something in something else. Which DF argued with about the numerous lifetimes that one had before the one they "just had" and how they matter as well. biggrin I personally (HOMG DF's doing it again... the personal beliefs) believe that energy all energy has some sort of equality. And the goal of reincarnations, incarnations, etc, is to gain experiences which can harness energy. :3 Quote: Alright, and finally, I have alot of doubt about the war. For when I put that to the side, I don't even really care. I suspect it is to come, well that means I can't change it. I suspect it will not come, then no worries. I could try to find out what I could, and maybe plan out things, but I really don't care enough. Just a personaly choice, such as beleiving in things is a choice. (though maybe the choices are less concious then what most people consider choices) Still not splainin' this so called war to me. You complain that I don't understand and yet you don't take the time to actually explain it to me. Hypocrite much? Ok ok, My terms: Here's some things I want you to acknowledge: 1) Beliefs/religious ideals/morals/ and Idealisms are not facts. They will never equal fact, unless of course science proves them right and then they are fact. 2) My Essay did disprove at least the majority of Otherkin out there. Because as we all know there are always going to be those damn ******** out there that are just faking it. bad for the witch comminuty as well. 3) There is the possiblity that one has had many other lives that one just doesn't remember. Through say regression, forgetting, suppression, what have you. So true forms probably do not exist. 4) That you skimmed through most of my stuff. 5) That next time you'll actually attempt to read my post. 6) And that you'll attempt to see it as I see it, instead of coming off as pompous and blaming me using the excuse that "DF just must not understand". 7) That you will at least try not to jump off the bridge and go like others have. 8 ) That you will at least tell me if you're male or female. I always guess people wrong. Even with their avatars. I'm like lame at this. By the way, I'm female. I know I come off all manly and what have you. But trust me, female. xD 9) You won't bring up that whole PMS excuse either while we are discussing because I don't get bitchy when I'm PMSing I cry. A lot... about stupid s**t. I'd cry about... rain...if it was raining or something and I don't want it. I'd be the one bawling my eyes out. 10)... Wait how many did you put up there, hold on. Only nine... ok.. won't make another one. biggrin Here's some things I would like to point out about myself: 1) I've been practicing witchcraft and magic for about seven years. I started out very fluffy and I wrapped in some stuff like this, only different. Until I saw the errors of my ways. 2) I've a full on ready to learn about other people and discuss with them. I sometimes get rude and be very frank. But don't take that as if I'm not understand or that I'm plain stupid. Just the way I present things specially arguements where I want to put a burr up people's tail feathers. 3) I don't take kindly to male figures who try to brush me off. (And I'm assuming here that you are male. But lol if you're not. XD Because I don't take kindly to female figures doing that either.) I'm not a piece of lint on you're clothing. Thing of me as like... an acid. You're going to have to rip through some s**t to get me off. 4) When I start rambling, just tell me I'm rambling. Like If suddenly I start on something completely else from the topic tell me. I usually catch it but sometimes DF's hands get naughty and they like to type their own s**t. 5) I curse. I curse in front of my mom, I curse with my mom. I curse at home, at school and specially online. I'm not about to change that. It's a normalcy for me. I'd curse at my boss, which happens to be my dad so literately I do curse at my boss. So if that's coming off to you in an assholeish way, just ignore it. Because that's just me. 6) I have a nose for fluffy-ness. and You know I'm almost ashamed to be in this guild. It's got more fluffies than Silver Ravenwolf has followers. I only signed up to talk with you, or rather the people in this thread. So if you aren't going to take me seriously or take me at an even playing field I may just go off on you're tail. : D xD And DF get's fairly grumpy. So feel special, I'm here, basically for you. :3 AW MAN Another freakin' post. Xd Quote: You have just stated a circumstantial thing and won't acknowledge other possibilites(our fallacy logic) because of your fallacy logic. Wrong. i've used a lot of facts in my arguements. Not circumstantial. Now there is some personal and basically what I consider to be common sense, but still you can't just stand on you're soap box without any proof. Essay has lots of things that refer to science. For example the whole Transvestite issue. I don't just start spouting crap fallacy-ily. biggrin Quote: Also, you can acknowledge higher and lower planes, (with the astral one), but not acknowledge the idea of higher and lower selves? Now where did I deny that, Mr. Straw Man Fallacy? I deny the idea of true selves, forms and what have you. However I do believe that this current personality is probably very different from the personality that you have in death. Because after you've died you basically remember all your experiences. And see now we are getting into DF's whole soul theory. So if you want that, you can have that. Otherwise I ain't getting into it. And I acknowledge more than one higher and lower plane. Think of them as ladders. :3 Quote: Things are not as literal as you think in these discussions, get used to it, and remember it. Things can be as literal as you think they are. B) Quote: A common idea that she has, I acknowledge, and a number of other people share or acknowledge. And in the 1700s everyone knew the world was flat. Good Job. ;3 Quote: By asking why is it bad, why would it be bad, she is indirectly saying it could be good. You just didn't read enough to understand*cough*piecetogether*cough* what she was really saying. So you just blatently said (and tried to make fun of her with) what she was actually saying. Good jorb (not a typo). Jorb. xD No, I understood and pieced it together you didn't get what I was saying. She was using Insanity and other issues, while there could have been other ones there. Basically I was asking her why she was only refering to one aspect. Maybe if you actually read my post you'd have understood that. Good Jorb on that one, buddah.
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:38 pm
Quote: Whoa, whoa now. Incarnation is the current form. :3 Reincarnation is the cycle of switching bodies, correctnesses. xD And the Goal of Reincarnation is to have as many experiences as possible to gain oneness with some sort off upper level power, yes. :3 SWEET MOVING ON! Well not all want to reincarnate. There are many different reasons for one to either reincarnate or not to reincarnate. It is a matter of personal preference and decision isn't it? I'm bad with words sometimes and I'm not gunna look it up As to gaining some sort of one ness with anything as far as I can tell every time I reincarnate I've made devisions within myself. Segmenting each time... now that doesn't seem like I'm Trying to gain one ness with Anything. That isn't my goal... why would it be. I reincarnate because I want something new. I want to see life a different way I want to be different I want to see all the different ways I could be. At some point yeah Maybe I'll go back into being one being but soo far as far as I can tell... My selves aren't really planning a reunion ith anything any time soon. Quote: Ok why are we dividing forms now? 1) You wouldn't count your original body because it's just one experienced life time and there could possibly be a number of multiple other lives that one could have had before that so called "original" body. :3 2) Since when do souls have form? But alas, let's say all the souls do have a permanet form, the slug shape no fit into the human shape. That means that the body would have to fit the shape of the soul for the soul to go into it. Tis why souls don't have forms. x3 (Well I like to think of them as balls of energy that smooth out over the complete body form like butter. :3 So I guess in that sense that it would have a form, but it's not a form that is a constant. : D) 3) Current body, yes, which is human. And because the other two supposed forms are theortical, they can and will be (xF For this explaination) null and void. Thus why worry about them. You human, DOOD! : D... wait... DOODETTE <3 Sin-sin :: pet pet:: It isn't a body I'm counting as far as I can tell my original form was before earth before bodies in a conventional sence. Untill I went into the whole reincarnation thingy on earth I never had any problems with other forms or sub forms or anything else. My original form is the one which holds the largest part of my soul has the most influence and every form which came after's memories are based on her memories as they segmented from her. There earliest memories are her earliest memories. My earliest memories are her earliest memories up until the point of my creation. Of cource she can change her form as I can change my representation in the plains... so can everyone but that form is the one most congrunet with my essenceand with my way of being. I don't even like that form very much but I remember it and I recognise its validity of being what I was when my soul entered creation. The devisions... are necassary because they exist and you don't recognise the existance of a form outside of earth. Oh and people MAKE UP there forms Constantly... Never Ever Ever under estimate confirmation bias and the desire to be Pretty or Majestic Or AWESOME *blah*
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:48 pm
That people have a soul form is Normal... Just knowing of its existance is Abnormal as it doesn't happen often and people can take it to stupendously retarded extremes that end up interfering with there lives
God Soo many Issues right now in dealing with the long quotes...
*twitch twitch*
And yeah I think I missed you though currently I'm not sure I can comprehend you because of the solid BLOCKS of Quoting...
*sigh*
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:02 pm
Ok Trying again... Form fits Essence Form fits will form is a conduit for will. Original form would be the form which is the original conduit for your will think of best fit. Changes in your form changes the ability for your will to interact with your environment and the affect of your will. By changeing form you are altering interaction and perhaps in a way which doesn't best fit it. By adopting other forms you are adopting other ways of being but these ways may not be the best fit for your interaction with existance.
Lets say... you alter a piece of metal... and you twist it and turn it and make it fit another form... Will it be the same... will it be able to channel electricity as well?
In anycase the body is just a shell you soul as far as I can tell doesn't actually adopt this form just because your reincarnated as this form unless you fit it to the form. Its a temporary thing that usually goes away when a person dies. When a person remembers what they were and what it feels like to be normal. Once you regain memories of existance before that form... Why would you keep that form?
If I remembered existance of being a human for almost all of my existance and for a brief stint I was a Cat I think I'd go back to being what is comfy... what is cozy. what seems to channel my energies best IE the human.
You Never EVER EVER deal with someone who has a link with the other person your asking. You never give a person means to know the answer to your questions. You never Ask them something they could possibly have any reference to and you shoose your words wisely. You never let them know what previous answers were. STANDERD ways to validate info silly. I'm not a retard you take that s**t into consideration... Think Paranoid look at it from all angels and see what you can see.
Hehe my sources have been people that I taought to see spirits. People I broke the binds on. People who alleged to see spirits before meeting me and the like. None of them know the others. I try to keep it that way. The only two who have ever known each other are Psyche and Gyver. I don't think Either of them would be telling the others the answers as I asked them. alot of times I asked them at different times and they confirmed information. Sometimes one only partially confirmed the other and then Of Cource I asked for eleborations but no one I have ever asked was actually gaining anything from this accept of cource information which Really is worth the effort.
As I said before Him and Her only give you SEEMING LOLZ I already mentioned that DIDN"T I?
I said it would require alot more effort to actually YA KNOW find a true form. In anycase Him and Her validate that the soul has a form other then the physical.
Hehe... Cardboard wings
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:25 pm
didn't we have some sort of discussion about this before... I feel like I'm re iterating something... -_-
*spasms dies* walls... I can't Reads U's!
*death* thou art PAIN...
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:21 pm
DragonicFlames Gawd, finally. What do you wait till like nine o clock to answer posts. gonk I live on the west coast love, I'm basically on the part of the world thats the farthest behind in the time zones. DragonicFlames Quote: Heres some things I want you to acknowledge. Oh goodie. Do I get to do that for you? You went ahead and did so, so I can't really object. DragonicFlames Quote: -Alot of things are circumstancial. Which is why you rarely bring up an arguement or sub-arguement with only "I believe" or "I think" as if it is fact. Thats half of the argument from what I think. I'm argueing for the idea of actual otherkin, not the fake ones. And I'm argueing using what little we can prove (in magic in general) DragonicFlames Quote: -People have personal faiths. Which means there are probaby some similarities between things, and obviously some differences. I cannot say what the ratio is because that would be circumstancial. Oh really? I didn't realize that, I'm sorry. I thought we all practiced the same way. I never really understood that whole why Christians and Muslims hate everyone. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good Job. /Sarcasm. My point was that what one person thinks of the details of something like the stages and possible things you can do with/in reincarnation might be different then the details of someone elses idea of the reincarnation. Just as an example, not a literal thing. DragonicFlames Quote: -People may have different definitions or ideas of what magic is or the meaning of it (basically I said the same thing twice there). Really? Wow. I thought everyone had the same definition. MAI BAD! /sarcasm. I personally believe that magic is a type of energy. :E (Oh lookie, I said it as a belief and not as a fact. That's how it's done.) So does that mean you now know that what one person considers magic, or how it works might be a little, or alot different then another persons definition. DragonicFlames Quote: -We might be insane, and thusly our logic/ideas/brains cannot be trusted. -You too could be insane, and this situation is flip sided. Wow, the whole "NO U!111!!!1one!" excuse. :/ Yes everyone is at least somewhat insane. Which is why I am constantly asking myself what is reality and what isn't. Which is another reason why I study, or at least review philosophy. My perception of reality is the only thing I have as a real concrete fact. XD And all things spawn from this. Which could also means that "Since I'm the only one who exists, and can prove that I exist", what I say goes. :3 xD DF and her philosophy... :: eats hume's pants, but that was a descartes quote though. :: And I often ponder the ideas of how real other people are. But I'm just saying, there might as well be an equal chance of you being as insane as me, since if one of us is, and we can't prove who, then neither of us can be trusted to be correct. Maybe we're both like mental patients in a ward calling eachother insane but ourselves sane, so neither of us can be trusted to be correct, only really judged. DragonicFlames Quote: -So far in this argument, it seems to be two people and me against you, meaning it probably seems to some (I said some) specataters we're more likely (I said likely) to be right in this. Who's "we're"? :3 Oh, so if you out number me some how you're correct? What kind of logic is that. Christianity is one of the most highly practiced religions so because they outweigh me (numbers wise), they are correct? I don't think so. I didn't say outnumbering you ment we were correct, I said it just seems that by logic we're more likely to be correct. And besides, if "we" outnumber you, then that justmeans we can go nazi on your a** and exterminate you and you can't really successfully fight back. DragonicFlames Quote: -The use of any language, in this case the somewhat infamous english language, can only portray so much of what one is tryin to say. Correct. I often have a hard time trying to describe what I need to describe but that doesn't hold me back from trying. Right now I'm seeing this whole little dealy as a little side step around the whole "Explain to me what this war is about". No, its ment to lead up to my trying to eventually explain one problem we seem to be having. DragonicFlames Quote: -Multiple meanings by definition, or (multiple meanings) because of peoples personal ideas, can cause misconseptions. Specially when they are used out of context. Look at the whole Gardener wiccan/witch thing. Witches =/= Wiccans. Though there are some witches who are wiccans. :3 Which is why I like to steer clear of getting into the technical meanings of thing and ideas when they are in such a context that they contradict what I associate with them. DragonicFlames Quote: -You have taken some things we said out of context, either because you just didn't understand them, or because you are trying your best to point out any flaw you can and are creating fake flaws in our argument (pretending to be dense) to do so. What the ********? Thanks for that excuse. It seems to me like you are taking what I say out of context and confusing it in your brain to what I'm saying. I've pointed out your flaws because they are flaws. If it's broken fix it. If it's not broken don't break it. Since otherkin philosophy is broken, then it ain't right or correct and can lead someone an innocent newbie shall we into believe something that isn't true. Exactly how Silver Ravenwolf is. And watch I bet you hate Silver Ravenwolf to the point of trying to bash in her brains. Actually, if I were to have kids, and if I were to raise them in a magic oriented house hold, I would use Silver Ravenwolf stuff as reading material and easy stuff for my kids until they are 8 years old, then I would get them up to less fluffy (kiddy) stuff. Though you're right about Silver being totally daft. DragonicFlames Quote: You said you have friends who practice magic, but do not believe in it. Now I would ask for you to elaborate more, but for sake of time I will answer several possibilities to risk shortening this argument. No. I said I have friends who practice Witchcraft. Magic and witchcraft are two different things. See, that whole little spouting you did over top here about how I'm confusing things and how I'm taking things out of context. No, it's not me. It's you. Don't call the kettle black if you don't know what color you are. And I shall direct you to- DragonicFlames Quote: However, the first point of anything to do with magic as 'we' (in a general sense) is that you have to atleast accept that we believe it is real. Oh really? I've seen people do magic and not believe one little bit that magic is real or that it exists at all. :3 And I'm sorry I don't have a good example of that, but let's say Athestic Witchcraft (though I'm one who doesn't believe this exists to a point. So bare with me here.) One who believes in basically nil but yet practices witchcraft. Do their spells work less or more because of that? :/ I dunno. Since the actual work of magic could be considered circumcental (sp?). Read it, carefully. Taken out of context.dragonicflames Quote: Now, if they are practicing it, that means they are either idiots who are doing something they know is pointless, and obviously wasting time energy and maybe money, or they believe it will work somehow. So they are idiots now, because they practice witchcraft which is not automatically magic? Bullshit. Maybe you should try again. :3 We should stop continuing through entire arguments assuming the other would say the exact same thing, as this happens. dragonicflames Quote: (from what I gathered from what you said. {It seems} You thought Sin ment a persons first incarnation, which she didn't. Meaning you misunderstood a phrase that everyone I have talked to has been able to grasp, I'm sorry you didn't.) Excuse me? You are assuming here. I knew what the hell she meant. But you didn't understand what I was saying. Maybe if I make in nice big letters for you, you'd understand. Eheh...no, the reference is to the very first thing, whatever you were at the beginning. Before your first incarnation, before your preincarnation incarnations, or whatever one would call that. Basically what you are just after you somehow come into existence inorder to start doing things to have experiences. This would be the idea that somehow we started/were created. And this is in reference to that very beginning part. (already I know I bastardized the idea, but its not like its warped more then I could help, lol) dragonicflames Quote: What Sin ment by original form, is before your first incarnation, not your first incarnation. I suppose for a lack of better words to properly tell you what I mean, it is a pre incarnation before actual incarnations. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN OTHER FORMS BEFORE THIS SUPPOSED "PRE-INCARNATION", AND BECAUSE YOU DO NOT REMEMBER ALL OF YOU'RE LIVES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM YOU CANNOT MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF "PRE-FORM" FOR ONESELF. Better? See above, this is again why we should stop carrying through entire arguments like this. It is before any pre incarnations before the pre incarnations. It would be the very first one, does it make sense now, or did it before you got here? dragonicflames Quote: And most of use do not use psychics that you would find at carnivals, or whatever you were describing Assumption. I was talking about regular popular psychics that are supposedly really really "good" at what they do. It's a very simple possibly and process. If you had bothered to read it all the way through in stead of skimming it because that's what I feel like you're doing to my posts, you'd have understood that. You described a situation in which there would be a "mole" in the crowd/audience. If there is an audience then it is obviously some sort of attraction (unless its a group of scientists-unlikely). Also, see Sins posts so I don't have to continue on this sidetrack.... dragonicflames Quote: There are several layers to what you could see about someones 'form'. I would not/will not argue about the how, why, and probability because I doubt most methods, and the ones I don't I don't really care about because they (actually all of the methods) are unimportant to me. Then why bring it up because guess what that just leads me to believe there aren't any 'layers' and you're just covering up her mistake. :/ Some people sometimes don't realise that what they think is one thing is in fact (lol, fact) another thing. So if they are seeing their soul form, true form, higher form, lower form, totem animal, current energetic form, a glamour, a subconcious image, any of those might be misinterpreted to be the form you are asking to be told. If someone doesn't know what they are seeing isn't what the form actually is, then they are making a mistake and/or wrong about what the form is. dragonicflames Quote: Spirit form is a phrase to mean whatever the equivilant of a form would be for that inbetween incarnations stage, or one of them, whatever it would be in whomever you're talking to's idea of what its like inbetween incarnations (assuming they are not atheist, and believe in REincarnation) So because one is athetist one cannot reincarnate? Generalized assumption. Anyway, Spirit form can still be manipulated because you don't know what the "spirit" or "soul" is for sure. Thus an illusion, thus a hallucentation. When did I say they couldn't? Who knows, maybe if they are atheist their soul actually does just go no were. I was saying that if they are atheist, (which means they also don't beleive in reincarnation) then they won't have a belief about reincarnation. Which means that they won't have issues about how they thing we reincarnate. I didn't say that they would or wouldn't (re)incarnate if they are atheist, just that they would have a beleif about it. [sarcasm]I love repition.[/sarcasm] dragonicflames Quote: Also, I think an idea of reincarnation is what you would refer to as an incarnation that comes after a subjective incarnation. It could also just be refering to the (whole) process, or what you said. Ok, what. xD Lemme try and dumb it down because big words do not make one look smarter. You believe reincarnation is an incarnation that comes after a first incarnation. An incarnation is a form, a body. To incarnate is to gain a form. To reincarnate is to gain another form. Are we going to add another "re" for every life? Especially if we can't remember how many we've had? Subjectively it is after a first life, I suppose you could say that. The idea is that it is not the first life, meaing it would be after the last life if you are a reincarnation. To reincarnate would be to take another form after this life. dragonicflames Sort of. But no. Reincarnation is just another method for the soul, (In Df's opinion) to gather more experiences. So one could just suddenly start reincarnating and then stop and go somewhere, let's say "Lala land" for a good hundred or so years and say the soul gathers more experiences in Lala land and accidently drops off most of their human experiences. The soul would then restart another reincarnation cycle. Therefore one would not be able to say what is the soul's "true" form, because it forgot one experience. Which leads one to believe that it could forget as many as it wanted to. THUS it could forget many upon many upon many previous lives that it had before it entered another reincarnation cycle. However, For the Hindu reincarnation is the summing up of all experiences had. One goes through lives. There is no true form of the soul, meerly a soul that passes through bodies earning enough Dharma and Karma to get to mergement with a higher spirit aka God. Alright, that means their is still the idea that there is some concept if the soul being in one peice. If its an amorphic blob, then thats its form, the very lack of one is one. On the other hand, I don't think your soul could really forget experience from past lives if its all about helping you 'remember' then when you die. Just a personal idea. As Sin, if you were to go to "Lala land" then that would be a different set of "rules" and such, but that in itself would be a different (re)incarnation cycle. Also, we really don't bother measuring time with (re)incarnation, the people I talk to, because we have issues with agreeing on how time is relative between this life/lives in general, and were ever you are inbetween. dragonicflames Quote: -I dislike spelling magic with a capitol 'm' unless its the first word of a sentace or in a name, and I also dislike adding the 'k', or making the 'g' a 'j'. Hazaa... I randomly capitolize magic. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. :3 There is religious magic which should be capitolized with a capitol M. I don't like it when people do it in an attempt to make what they are calling it more special then just the normal word magic. And I don't really see how 'religious magic' is different from 'magic' outside of some circumstances that might infact occasionally be the exact same, or very different. dragonicflames Quote: -I have severe doubts about everything to do with magic and metaphysics. Philosophy. Hume is gud. DF hearts the Hume. Because he hated all things metaphysic and called everyone previous to him basically a liar. He was kewl. <3 Rrrrriiiggghhhtt... dragonicflames Quote: -I don't mind humouring the idea and thinking about things like that when I have the time to. Maybe because I wish it was real (if it isn't), maybe because I'm in it for kicks, maybe because I do believe it is real but don't like to get my hopes up? I doubt more than I let on. Sometimes I'll be sitting there in a car or somewhere and I'll basically crash into myself asking if my reality if everything is just all a lie. Philosophy, in one aspect, taught me that. I do too, in which case I usually have to brush off the thought to go on dealing with life as it seems to be more important/demanding or real then anything else so far. I enjoy that though, I swear I've almost proven there is no god and that we don't exist before, but I had to stop because of a freakishly increasing migraine, lol. DragonicFlames Quote: -The majority of what I discuss with other people I don't give any notice to. Maybe its because I don't beleive in it, maybe its because I really don't see how it has any relation to me/would be important to me. Maybe its because I know they are thinking the same thing about as me, and so I don't have to voice my opinion. xD I see so he admits to skimming my posts. <3 This means when someone starts talking about their Zen Buddist ideas, or the 11 rules of Satanism, hell the Mormon faith they used to follow, I don't argue with what they think because its their beleif. If they think the afterlife is something else, and they have an idea of what they think god is, then I'm not going to argue. If they want to, sure I don't mind talking about it, but I won't start something, because they have something they are sure(ish) about. dragonicflames Quote: -I have not asked people to tell me if I was therian. I do not think I am therian, and I have not had anyone tell me I am theiran. If I am, I have not noticably had it change anything about me. If I am not, I don't care to think I am. Like you suggested, (but I have been doing so for a long time) I do not care or bother about that since it is not important to me. XD Some how... I really hate you because your pompous attitude but love you on the inside for this. :/ I'm so confuzzled. D: XD Yeah, well I really don't care right now about this, since I don't see any effect it(me actually being or not being otherkin) really has right now. dragonicflames Quote: -I am not argueing for my self. Why not? That's how we learn. I'm not argueing for myself because I don't really have any issues about you not caring for the idea of otherkinism. I was arguing this since there seemed to be no one actually defending it. Now I'm just in it to see if I can get acknowledge ment out of it. And like always, if I do learn something, then woot, otherwise I had something to do in my spare time. dragonicflames Quote: The idea is that when you die, you shed the energy of that life. So can you see were if you are a therian, at the end of this life when you die, your current energy (**and the energy that makes you a therian**) would be removed. LOLZ! xD That means no more cat-man, slug-woman for thee. :/ Which like I said I don't believe in. That whole clean slate thing. I do however agree that somethings will be forgotten because of a) Un-willingness to remember or b) because it's basically a repeat experience. I'm not going to be arguing with your reasoning for why one would forget. The point is, being an otherkin isn't really supposed to happen to start. Secondly, if it does, it only lasts that one life, that one incarnation, which is the only reason it is remotely special. dragonicflames Quote: And my head is hurting by trying to understand how you don't get what everyone should know with the following. :/ Wtf? Pompous, much. Somewhat, yes, but that goes onto another part that is missing from the quote.... DragonicFlames Quote: You used the whole, "You cannot remember things from when you were two" to ask how could a therian remember a life. I said, "But you can remember parts of your current life" (meaning not the whole complete thing). Now, can you deny how a therian could have a few memories of a past life. (I never said remember their whole life, I said a few memories meaning maybe from after they were two, hmm, think about that? Hypothetically hey have a whole life to remember a few things from). XD. You didn't get what I was getting at with that. Yes, one could possibly remember a "few" things. But how does one know that these few things are even real? Just because our brain says so? Like I said, and I keep repeating myself over. Maybe if I drill it into your skull, perhaps? The Insane never believes or thinks that he is insane. That phrase is starting to lose what meaning it has. I'm not saying we can prove its real, though I did say that theres a chance that some (if not all if you are right) of them are most likely not real/are memories. Again, this is were taking it with a grain of salt (not at face value) and having to choose to believe (or not) in it being a memory. dragonicflames Quote: Since when did we say only therians could know about the war? We only implied that they would be much more likely to be aware of it. And why is that, Mr. I'm special pants? Cause if you're right about otherkin/therians not existing, then that means non otherkin are the ones who know about the war. Also, people who are said not be and/or claim not to be otherkin seem to be able to know things about the war, so maybe the are otherkin and don't know it, and thats why they know about the war, which means otherkin exist. If they are right, then they are not otherkin, but do know about the war, again meaning non otherkin know about the war. And if we all totally insane, then everything can be disregarded. But if your right about otherkin not existing, then it would logically mean they are not otherkin and do know about the war. Thats why. (I'm so not enjoying this repitition). dragonicflames Quote: I have come across 'things' magically that coincidentally point to a war. So, I figure, I might as well not say its definatly not going to happen xD I just had to giggle... I'm sorry. XD Your pun was great. x3 Glad you caught it. dragonicflames Quote: So, I figure, I might as well not say its definatly not going to happen. Do you understand that example, that theres either, believe or don't. The thing here is that most of the time 'we' do believe in certain things. "we" as in otherkin "we" as in people, "we" as in dicussionaries, "we" as the insane. We means nothing to me. We is like saying because a group of people are jumping off the bridge you're going to jump off too. I'd have some problems with that. You're not as fluffy as others and I may have to tie you down to the railing. It would be a fake bungey (sp?) jump for thee. So "we" being used as an example is pretty much not going to work at all against me. No, I mentioned I have doubts, but I would talk to a dozen people about why they are going to jump off the bridge. If it turns out they have bungy cords, or the water is really close and they're actually diving in and swimming from a height, then maybe I'll join in. I would atleast see what the hell their reason(s) are/would be for jumping off a bridge. I mean, if it was just for suicide, I'd still like to learn why they chose that, and et cetera.... dragonicflames Quote: You also mentioned that I said 'we', meaning I agree with other people. To clear that up a little, I mean we simply because I share some (and varying) beleifs/notions with a variety of people. Maybe some more with some then others of them...that doesn't mean I beleive, or have an interest in everything. Un huh... You said we again. :: Bites... lolipop.:: I dun trust you enough to bite... you may have AB+ blood... can't let the poor dying people in Nevada go without their needed blood transfusions. : O Eheh...*grin* DragonicFlames Quote: The idea of therian is that it is energy from you last life. From the life you just had.(atleast by the definition we arte using) Meaning that the things they think, if confirmed from outside sources would say more or less what their last life was. Oh yes go one, splain it to DF like she doesn't understand. ;3 But yet not splain it. :/ DF shall fill in the blank. Therians (lolz, look theory in their name. : D) believe that the energy from one life messes up in the current life during the process of death. Thus they have the complex that they are something in something else. Which DF argued with about the numerous lifetimes that one had before the one they "just had" and how they matter as well. biggrin I personally (HOMG DF's doing it again... the personal beliefs) believe that energy all energy has some sort of equality. And the goal of reincarnations, incarnations, etc, is to gain experiences which can harness energy. :3{/quote] I thought it was about experiences. Perhaps they are supposed to have a therian life experience? I don't know the ideas/designs, or cosmic what have you. However, I agree they basically have to deal with it, if they're right, that doesn't change they're ******** and have to deal with this. dragonicflames Quote: Alright, and finally, I have alot of doubt about the war. For when I put that to the side, I don't even really care. I suspect it is to come, well that means I can't change it. I suspect it will not come, then no worries. I could try to find out what I could, and maybe plan out things, but I really don't care enough. Just a personaly choice, such as beleiving in things is a choice. (though maybe the choices are less concious then what most people consider choices) Still not splainin' this so called war to me. You complain that I don't understand and yet you don't take the time to actually explain it to me. Hypocrite much? No, I don't have any interest in the war. I don't really want to know who I'm going to sacrifice myself for, or why. I'm honestly not even interested in how exactly I would die. Another reason is that most people I have talked to only have adopted ideas about the war, they usually don't have any conviction, and beleif in their ideas. And whether they do or don't have adopted ideas, people get stuck on different details despite similar main ideas. You've managed to point out (at this point since this is an addition by edit it might have been a post by lapis) the main ideas. In which case you do know (or know ******** already have said I don't have enough interest to want to develope personal details I think about the war. I have an idea or two about its main idea, and you should have something similar enough to make explaining it elaborately both pointless and counterproductive. dragonicflames Ok ok, My terms: Here's some things I want you to acknowledge: 1) Beliefs/religious ideals/morals/ and Idealisms are not facts. They will never equal fact, unless of course science proves them right and then they are fact. Not all science is perfect. Part of the idea about this is that things would be/are different on whatever level inbetween incarnations is, so they would have a different type of scienc. Otherwise, yes, I agree, we sure as hell can't seem to prove anything, and until we do we're more or less wasting breathe/effort.2) My Essay did disprove at least the majority of Otherkin out there. Because as we all know there are always going to be those damn ******** out there that are just faking it. bad for the witch comminuty as well. Your essay disproved most of the reasons people say they are otherkin, that doesn't change if they are or are not real, just that the reasons of whoever is claiming it are crap. And yes, they are often a blemish on the witch communities apperance. (amoung other ones)3) There is the possiblity that one has had many other lives that one just doesn't remember. Through say regression, forgetting, suppression, what have you. So true forms probably do not exist. As far as I can see, that just means it would be a good idea not to trust yourself if you think you might know what it is, and thats ignoring if a true form does or doesn't exist, its the same context, you probably shouldn't trust what you think.4) That you skimmed through most of my stuff. I've read each thing four times atleast(doesn't really change it if I am skimming), but theres other issues that I think will have come back when I go back to put them in later...(edit-see answer to 6 comming up soon)5) That next time you'll actually attempt to read my post. My answer is not applicable, see above.6) And that you'll attempt to see it as I see it, instead of coming off as pompous and blaming me using the excuse that "DF just must not understand". I have, thats why I got a headache. And by you not understanding it, I mean theres probably some fault on your side, simply because of the way you think and past things that may be biasing you, though its more likely you just haven't come across someone as subtly unique and obviously mainstream as me, and a majority of fault on my side because I am failing to say what I actually mean.7) That you will at least try not to jump off the bridge and go like others have. I didn't say I would(I'd probably smack a few jumpers too), I have some jokes I could make, but its less funny since I would be making fun of your metaphor, not what you're actually saying. I pride myself (am pompus) because I like to not jump off bridges like masses of people tend to do)8 ) That you will at least tell me if you're male or female. I always guess people wrong. Even with their avatars. I'm like lame at this. By the way, I'm female. I know I come off all manly and what have you. But trust me, female. xD Ehehehe...for the sake of decentsy(sp?), I'm male. Theres more to that, but thats not related either.9) You won't bring up that whole PMS excuse either while we are discussing because I don't get bitchy when I'm PMSing I cry. A lot... about stupid s**t. I'd cry about... rain...if it was raining or something and I don't want it. I'd be the one bawling my eyes out. I wouldn't bring up PMS, I'm a guy, but not a sad excuse for one.dragonicflames Here's some things I would like to point out about myself:
1) I've been practicing witchcraft and magic for about seven years. I started out very fluffy and I wrapped in some stuff like this, only different. Until I saw the errors of my ways.
2) I've a full on ready to learn about other people and discuss with them. I sometimes get rude and be very frank. But don't take that as if I'm not understand or that I'm plain stupid. Just the way I present things specially arguements where I want to put a burr up people's tail feathers.
3) I don't take kindly to male figures who try to brush me off. (And I'm assuming here that you are male. But lol if you're not. XD Because I don't take kindly to female figures doing that either.) I'm not a piece of lint on you're clothing. Thing of me as like... an acid. You're going to have to rip through some s**t to get me off.
4) When I start rambling, just tell me I'm rambling. Like If suddenly I start on something completely else from the topic tell me. I usually catch it but sometimes DF's hands get naughty and they like to type their own s**t.
5) I curse. I curse in front of my mom, I curse with my mom. I curse at home, at school and specially online. I'm not about to change that. It's a normalcy for me. I'd curse at my boss, which happens to be my dad so literately I do curse at my boss. So if that's coming off to you in an assholeish way, just ignore it. Because that's just me.
6) I have a nose for fluffy-ness. and You know I'm almost ashamed to be in this guild. It's got more fluffies than Silver Ravenwolf has followers. I only signed up to talk with you, or rather the people in this thread. So if you aren't going to take me seriously or take me at an even playing field I may just go off on you're tail. : D xD And DF get's fairly grumpy. So feel special, I'm here, basically for you. :3 I've been refraining with extreme difficulty from cursing, and insults. Like, ulcer level refraining. I was raised hindhu, and my family, extended family, and families in law are all white. I don't care about rambling, I can usually keep things seperate, though I had to cut up a post earlier because I had actually exceeded the maximum quote limit you can put into one.... if I was brushing you off, you wouldn't have gotten this much typing out of me in the rest of our (this)lifetime. And yes, this guild is very ashamingly fluffy, but I'm not going to brush it off if I might actually learn something. (so far, little in learning). And I did mention I am an a*****e earlier, so I'm mentioning again so that you can be sure I am one. AW MAN Another freakin' post. Xd dragonicflames Quote: You have just stated a circumstantial thing and won't acknowledge other possibilites(our fallacy logic) because of your fallacy logic. Wrong. i've used a lot of facts in my arguements. Not circumstantial. Now there is some personal and basically what I consider to be common sense, but still you can't just stand on you're soap box without any proof. Essay has lots of things that refer to science. For example the whole Transvestite issue. I don't just start spouting crap fallacy-ily. biggrin The fundamental flaw is that if our logic is right, then your logic in somecases don't apply (such as in soul forms), or that its some weird god level ******** up, which transcends the logic of our world/humans. So, like all things, one thing has to be wrong, and our side relies on how it is not applicable to normal logic, and science. dragonicflames Quote: Also, you can acknowledge higher and lower planes, (with the astral one), but not acknowledge the idea of higher and lower selves? Now where did I deny that, Mr. Straw Man Fallacy? I deny the idea of true selves, forms and what have you. However I do believe that this current personality is probably very different from the personality that you have in death. Because after you've died you basically remember all your experiences. And see now we are getting into DF's whole soul theory. So if you want that, you can have that. Otherwise I ain't getting into it. And I acknowledge more than one higher and lower plane. Think of them as ladders. :3 I'm aware of two or three ideas were there are multiple higher and lower planes. And your soul ideas is more or less (from what I think) a different way of saying the same thing. Your is less metaphorical, more literal (comparatively). dragonicflames Quote: Things are not as literal as you think in these discussions, get used to it, and remember it. Things can be as literal as you think they are. B) You know thats just plain counterproductive to the arguement. Taken out of context.Eheh. dragonicflames Quote: A common idea that she has, I acknowledge, and a number of other people share or acknowledge. And in the 1700s everyone knew the world was flat. Good Job. ;3 Yeap, and our logic said the world was flat, our science at the time said it was flat. So, maybe if we wait long enough, it will turn out your science and logic applied now are wrong. ;3 dragonicflames Quote: By asking why is it bad, why would it be bad, she is indirectly saying it could be good. You just didn't read enough to understand*cough*piecetogether*cough* what she was really saying. So you just blatently said (and tried to make fun of her with) what she was actually saying. Good jorb (not a typo). Jorb. xD No, I understood and pieced it together you didn't get what I was saying. She was using Insanity and other issues, while there could have been other ones there. Basically I was asking her why she was only refering to one aspect. Maybe if you actually read my post you'd have understood that. Good Jorb on that one, buddah. Don't compare me to buddhist anything, its more of an insult to buddhist anything then it is to me. I'll use a simile. Maybe its like having a mutation, a change in normal genes. Like alot of the cases, it could be bad, but maybe it would actually be helpful because of circumstancial things, and the (again circustancial) environment. So, I'm not going into it, since thats not my field, and I'll drop this also because I fail to see which one of us is wrong here, lol...seriously. Some points I am reiterating. I'll start to argue if I am the only one who would argue on that side. I think the majority of the fault misunderstandings that are continueing the aregument are my fault for not being able to properly portray what I mean. Also, I've got issues like everyone else. I've got my 'sob' story, my 'horrible childhood' one, my 'holy ******** how are you alive/ok' ones (plural), and my 'aww, wow' life sucks story. Unlike everyone else who can deal with it, my only excuse is that I am not able to as well as others, and between a whole lot of self monitoring, and general (excessive) things I have to deal with, I don't get on till late, on my behind the times end of the world. Have a good night and I should be back tomorrow. Right now, befor I hit "submit" the time here is 10:22
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:33 am
Quote: Well not all want to reincarnate. There are many different reasons for one to either reincarnate or not to reincarnate. It is a matter of personal preference and decision isn't it? I'm bad with words sometimes and I'm not gunna look it up So they float around in lala land. :: shurg:: Then they eventually come back to reincarnating. But that is the Hindu termonlogy and belief and that's what I'm going to go by. I might switch it up and ho snap use the buddhist philosophy because in Hindu you have those little level things where you have to get through and blarg blarg blarg. : D Quote: Segmenting each time... now that doesn't seem like I'm Trying to gain one ness with Anything. That isn't my goal... why would it be. I reincarnate because I want something new. I want to see life a different way I want to be different I want to see all the different ways I could be It might not be your goal =Now=. But in the Hindu (because that I believe in the originator of the term Reicarnation.) you are doing it to gain oneness with something else. :3 Quote: It isn't a body I'm counting as far as I can tell my original form was before earth before bodies in a conventional sence. Where did I say the first body was an earth one? There could be many other bodies from many other plane. : D Straw Man Fallacy. XD Quote: Of cource she can change her form Which means that she doesn't have a concrete original form. Thank you for prove my point. If she can change it, then that shows that one could essentially forget the so called "true" form, and create a whole new one. Let's just keep it at the whole squishy ballness <3. Quote: And yeah I think I missed you though currently I'm not sure I can comprehend you because of the solid BLOCKS of Quoting... <3 Tis what I do. Quote: Form fits Essence Form fits will form is a conduit for will. Ok What? Sin-sin are we going to discuss theory now? ;/ Quote: Original form would be the form which is the original conduit for your will think of best fit But since you can change the so called original form there wouldn't be an original form and thus no original conduit. :3 Quote: When a person remembers what they were and what it feels like to be normal. Actually no, that's an assumption. One could actually feel disgusted with oneself because one could have been a murderer. Quote: You Never EVER EVER deal with someone who has a link with the other person your asking. You never give a person means to know the answer to your questions. You never Ask them something they could possibly have any reference to and you shoose your words wisely. You never let them know what previous answers were. STANDERD ways to validate info silly. Ok.. what? Quote: I live on the west coast love, I'm basically on the part of the world thats the farthest behind in the time zones. Gawd. I stayed up till 10:34 answering your posts. :/ Quote: You went ahead and did so, so I can't really object. I know whee Quote: Thats half of the argument from what I think. I'm argueing for the idea of actual otherkin, not the fake ones. And I'm argueing using what little we can prove (in magic in general) Magic really can't be proven, Unless they've found new machinery. I wish it could be proven though. It would be cool. : D Quote: My point was that what one person thinks of the details of something like the stages and possible things you can do with/in reincarnation might be different then the details of someone elses idea of the reincarnation. Just as an example, not a literal thing. Thank you. Just state you're point. xD So DF doesn't have to get all ebel. DF is using the original Hindu, you're using a term that has been spawned and manipulated so much that sometimes DF wonders how people can use it. :/ It scares DF on the inside. Quote: So does that mean you now know that what one person considers magic, or how it works might be a little, or alot different then another persons definition. Um, I already knew that. Sorry for bursting you're little celebration pompous attitude. Yes people have different definetions of magic because it cannot be singularly defined. Just as witchcraft cannot be singularly defined. That's the whole reason why I was being sarcastic to you. Quote: And I often ponder the ideas of how real other people are. But I'm just saying, there might as well be an equal chance of you being as insane as me, since if one of us is, and we can't prove who, then neither of us can be trusted to be correct. Maybe we're both like mental patients in a ward calling eachother insane but ourselves sane, so neither of us can be trusted to be correct, only really judged. Tis why DF questions her reality. :3 Quote: I didn't say outnumbering you ment we were correct, I said it just seems that by logic we're more likely to be correct. And besides, if "we" outnumber you, then that justmeans we can go nazi on your a** and exterminate you and you can't really successfully fight back. It's called posion gas and DF having a gas mask. You're still saying that because you outnumber me, you are correct. Esstentially that's what you're trying to point out. And that's not true. Quote: No, its ment to lead up to my trying to eventually explain one problem we seem to be having. Unhuh... Splain! : D Quote: Actually, if I were to have kids, and if I were to raise them in a magic oriented house hold, I would use Silver Ravenwolf stuff as reading material and easy stuff for my kids until they are 8 years old, then I would get them up to less fluffy (kiddy) stuff. Though you're right about Silver being totally daft. I'd raise my kids in a family that accepts all religions. Including Christianity. If they want to be Buddhist they can be buddhists if they want to be witches they can be witches. I'm not going to force feed mai kids. :3 Quote: but let's say Athestic Witchcraft There we go, on that whole little bit. XD I knowz, I typed magic and ment witchcraft. Oh wellz. :: Bad DF:: But then put that up there. They do witchcraft but don't believe in magic. xD I KNOWZ WHAT I MEANT. DAMNIT. xD Quote: (already I know I bastardized the idea, but its not like its warped more then I could help, lol) XD Shame on you. Quote: It is before any pre incarnations before the pre incarnations. It would be the very first one, does it make sense now, or did it before you got here? You don't get it. I'm saying that the possiblity that there was something else before this pre-form and before the pre-preform and then the preprepreprepeprpepreprpeprperpeprpeprpeprpeprperpeprpeprpeprep-form leads us to possibly think that there is no original form. That where ever the souls poped out of was the start of the soul and thus the soul had no form because it hadn't had a body yet. The end. Quote: You described a situation in which there would be a "mole" in the crowd/audience. If there is an audience then it is obviously some sort of attraction (unless its a group of scientists-unlikely). Also, see Sins posts so I don't have to continue on this sidetrack.... Lol, I was talking about those meeting that psychics give where people gather. Much different than an attraction park. At an attraction park one has got to realize that the psychic is fake or most likely is fake. Quote: Some people sometimes don't realise that what they think is one thing is in fact (lol, fact) another thing. So if they are seeing their soul form, true form, higher form, lower form, totem animal, current energetic form, a glamour, a subconcious image, any of those might be misinterpreted to be the form you are asking to be told. If someone doesn't know what they are seeing isn't what the form actually is, then they are making a mistake and/or wrong about what the form is. Then we should all say there is no form and get it over with because everyone's going to be confused at the end of the day. Quote: .When did I say they couldn't? Who knows, maybe if they are atheist their soul actually does just go no were. I was saying that if they are atheist, (which means they also don't beleive in reincarnation) then they won't have a belief about reincarnation. Which means that they won't have issues about how they thing we reincarnate. I didn't say that they would or wouldn't (re)incarnate if they are atheist, just that they would have a beleif about it. [sarcasm]I love repition.[/sarcasm] I appears I have to repeat myself to you nearly every time. I guess you do love it. So you're saying because they are atheists it makes it easier to reincarnate? :/ /: I really don't think so. Quote: Especially if we can't remember how many we've had? Subjectively it is after a first life, I suppose you could say that. The idea is that it is not the first life, meaing it would be after the last life if you are a reincarnation. To reincarnate would be to take another form after this life. And you'd ignore any other lives? :/ Quote: Alright, that means their is still the idea that there is some concept if the soul being in one peice. If its an amorphic blob, then thats its form, the very lack of one is one. On the other hand, I don't think your soul could really forget experience from past lives if its all about helping you 'remember' then when you die. Just a personal idea. As Sin, if you were to go to "Lala land" then that would be a different set of "rules" and such, but that in itself would be a different (re)incarnation cycle. Also, we really don't bother measuring time with (re)incarnation, the people I talk to, because we have issues with agreeing on how time is relative between this life/lives in general, and were ever you are inbetween. Is the soul in many pieces? Does that mean it's broken? Anyway, I stated that the whole squishy ball was it's form. : D But that it constantly changes form, so the squishy ball form is just one phase of the whole switching different forms. I think the soul possibly represses the experiences... but forgetting was the best word I could come up with. Correct, so in lala land you have another whole other cycle and form and here you have a cycle and form. Which one was the first one? It's like the Egg or the Chicken kind of thing. Quote: And I don't really see how 'religious magic' is different from 'magic' outside of some circumstances that might infact occasionally be the exact same, or very different. Religious magic would be assosciated with religious beliefs. Such as a god/goddess and a set religion. Such a wicca. Magic on the other hand could be just you know a spell. And that's it. Nothing religious to it. biggrin Quote: This means when someone starts talking about their Zen Buddist ideas, or the 11 rules of Satanism, hell the Mormon faith they used to follow, I don't argue with what they think because its their beleif. If they think the afterlife is something else, and they have an idea of what they think god is, then I'm not going to argue. If they want to, sure I don't mind talking about it, but I won't start something, because they have something they are sure(ish) about. XD You make me giggle on the inside. Quote: I was arguing this since there seemed to be no one actually defending it. Now I'm just in it to see if I can get acknowledge ment out of it. And like always, if I do learn something, then woot, otherwise I had something to do in my spare time. Lol. xD Spare time. Quote: Again, this is were taking it with a grain of salt (not at face value) and having to choose to believe (or not) in it being a memory. xD =Snip about warnesses and otherkin= So basically it's a fake war? Quote: Not all science is perfect. Part of the idea about this is that things would be/are different on whatever level inbetween incarnations is, so they would have a different type of scienc. Otherwise, yes, I agree, we sure as hell can't seem to prove anything, and until we do we're more or less wasting breathe/effort. No, But most of it at least has been proven repeatedly. Quote: as subtly unique and obviously mainstream as me, and a majority of fault on my side because I am failing to say what I actually mean. I had to lol. XD Quote: You know thats just plain counterproductive to the arguement. I know B) Quote: Also, I've got issues like everyone else. I've got my 'sob' story, my 'horrible childhood' one, my 'holy ******** how are you alive/ok' ones (plural), and my 'aww, wow' life sucks story. I have a sucky life too. : D
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:54 am
DragonicFlames So they float around in lala land. :: shurg:: Then they eventually come back to reincarnating. But that is the Hindu termonlogy and belief and that's what I'm going to go by. I might switch it up and ho snap use the buddhist philosophy because in Hindu you have those little level things where you have to get through and blarg blarg blarg. : D Lala land... the realms are places they have substance and context and meaning. There are other spirits there to interact with homes families and a whole net work of interpersonal relationships and plains. Earth is just a place one in which the rules are set. It is in many ways safer then the rest of the realms for being soo definite. Not all the places in the realms are so changeable but then once you find one that isn't it's usually a part of someones domain and you are subject to their rules. I am not Hindu I don't go by there beliefs reincarnation is not strictly Hindu... I believe the concept has been around for several thousand years and is a part of egyptian and I think to some extent Christain mythos. I think perhaps also some native american beliefs... The existance of the spirit after Death is a belief shared by many and there are many different places people say spirits go. I like to look into this to study the different places available outside of earth. And AS TO Otherkin I believe that their Domain is the Domain of Other Realms of substance outside of Life on Earth or at least many of the ones I met also advocate this. Quote: It might not be your goal =Now=. But in the Hindu (because that I believe in the originator of the term Reicarnation.) you are doing it to gain oneness with something else. :3 See I'm Not hindu<<<< Oooo Looky That I believe in Reincarnation as the definition of reincarnation Outside of RELIGEOUS CONTEXT I art soo BAD For not being a Highly Religeous Person!!!! Quote: Where did I say the first body was an earth one? There could be many other bodies from many other plane. : D Straw Man Fallacy. XD Accept Other plains are sub devisions of a single plain. Introduction into Existance is introductio into a Plain the Sub plains are creations. Ok so you have one ball of floatyness the sub plains are just structureing that floatyness. Its not like when I die I'm gunna go to another Plain and reincarnate there. When I die I go back to that which isn't subdevided. Then I'll stop being subjected to the laws of this plain. Anything that I agreed to by being on earth will be gone. I will have my memories back and if I choose to go back here or to another Plain of existance where they allow you to step into a body and control it hey maybe I will. It depends on what want. I could just Explore the realms.. see what there is to see. There are plenty of interesting yet dangerous things I could do. Plenty of places and sub realms to see. See how other people try to organise reality and all. Quote: Which means that she doesn't have a concrete original form. Thank you for prove my point. If she can change it, then that shows that one could essentially forget the so called "true" form, and create a whole new one. Let's just keep it at the whole squishy ballness <3. She could But it doesn't change its Validity as the FIRST The First Still Existed< People forget there true forms all the time and create new ones... It doesn't mean that form didn't Exist. I consider it the True form based on my Theories concerning magic which Make sence to me. Quote: But since you can change the so called original form there wouldn't be an original form and thus no original conduit. :3 Lol Missing the point entirely. Original Means FIRST Original Means Nothing Other then FIRST lol You silly goose stop trying to tell me I'm saying things other then I am Quote: Actually no, that's an assumption. One could actually feel disgusted with oneself because one could have been a murderer. This is true for me... It isn't an assumption its an assertation based on Personal truth. My original form feels Right... I don't even like the form much but it fits me Perfectly. This has nothing to do with experiences of that form. This has nothing to do with things that I've done while in that form. I can feel disgusted with my past or with my first self because I think differently or feel differently then she does Soo mis interpreteting what I said. The Form is Comfy The Form is a conduit for Will... Its a conduit for my will It fits it so well. when I Work magic through that form everything feels right. In anycase... Its not like that form is ever even really givn up. See the definition of current form is physical form. The soul that is inhabiting this form may still look like any of my past forms it may appear as it may. It would only be if I changed that form that it would look like my physical form. You change your form to look like the physical form it doesn't automatically assume that form just because you have a body. Most people aren't even aware they Have a soul when they are in a body so why would they even think to change it or alter it till after they died and started superimposing the way they expect them selves to look on what they looked like before. Then That is Super impossition.... and that is rejecting who you were for who ou are instead of creating a synthesis of experience Quote: You Never EVER EVER deal with someone who has a link with the other person your asking. You never give a person means to know the answer to your questions. You never Ask them something they could possibly have any reference to and you shoose your words wisely. You never let them know what previous answers were. STANDERD ways to validate info silly. I was trying to explain Proper methods of validating information which I use when trying to validate Any information I get from someone who supposedly sees spirits. Sometimes I'm more thorough then other times but I am Very Careful in my precautions. This is because of the comment about those stupid tarot people.
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