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I don't have the article about the lack of b12 deficiency in the third world, it was a long time ago that I read it, but I believe the people they tested were in rural pakistan.
The secret I do remember.

Gut bacteria. Living in the guts of animals, and sometimes in the ground, there is a specific kind of bacteria that produces B12. Enough to sustain you and then some. In humans, and probably many other animals, however, the bacteria are too far down in the system for the b12 to be properly absorbed.

The secret? Fecal cross contamination.

And to adress your last question: Egg laying is part of a chicken's natural menstrual cycle. They'll keep laying them even in absence of a male. Those are the eggs you will buy in the store. In that sense most eggs you will ever see are vegetarian.

I for example am a Lactor-ovo vegetarian, and I believe that as long as the anima is not harmed, and the ends are sustainable, there is nothing wrong with eating the byproducts of other animal life.

I try to limit the amount of dairy I eat, though. I don't avoid it entirely, though. My reasoning behind that is that letting animals sustainably reproduce, you can continue manually milking an animal for months after it's offspring would have weened; however, he are keeping these cows constantly pregnant, back to back, so that we can continue to get our cheese fix. This just doesn't strike me as sustainable behavior, for a number of reasons.

Did you know that the process of making cheese removes whey, leaving the major component protein to be casein, which has been shown to have an opiate effect in humans. That means that cheese is mildly addictive. I for one don't mind a little kosher cheese, (free of animal rennet, which comes from boiled calf guts) sprinkled on top of a casserole, or ricotta(Curdled by vinegar) in my pasta sauce.

It's a luxury, and I try to moderate my intake, but it's also a good source of natural b12.

I remember reading somewhere that Spirulina, a common vegan b12 supplement, contains not only b12(Cobalamin), but "corrinoids" which test positive for the presence of b12, but may actually even hinder the absorption of real b12. The amount that is actually bioavailable was also under dispute last time I checked.

The thing is, it's really hard to test these kinds of things, because humans can store about 2 years worth of reserve b12 in them. So a vegan might think they're doing great for years, and then suddenly develop anemia and a nerve damage.


As it is, I see no real harm in eating eggs to get my b12. Once I move out and start doing the shopping myself I'll even go for the more expensive farmers market eggs, if I can find them. I hear they taste better, anyway.

My brain is a sponge, sadly sponges don't have works cited pages.

But I'm pretty sure you could find most of this on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia

Simply find something interesting, and look for the work it cites at the bottom of the page.

Sometimes it's really obscure books, but a lot of the time it's internet articles and encyclopedias.

From what I've read, hive collapse has really absolutely nothing to do with whether on not we take excess honey. There are two kinds of bee farms. Those who simply take all the honey and start fresh with a new colony the next year and those who keep and breed strong colonies, and leave enough to last the bees through winter.

Both of these groups would be affected though, since hive collapse seems to be a disease, like a parasite or a virus, and I read somewhere last year, while doing research for a paper, that people were seriously considering that it might be the pollen from genetically engineered plants, which produce their own pesticides, through some kind of cross contamination.

There are plants who are entirely toxic like that, several whose nectars cannot be made safe for human consumption. Tansy I believe, is one of these plants.

It doesn't seem like huge leap to me, for it to be possible that it may also be possible for honey to be toxic to the bees themselves.

Though pollen and nectar are two different things. Who knows. Not me. I'm not an apiculturist(Bee keeper).

Well, it would be a little naive to assume that most farms are the image the word "Farm" invokes.

Most "farm" animals are kept in a factory setting. In our modern reality, farms are factories. Traditional farms are the UNCOMMON thing. It simply isn't affordable in the current state of the world, unless you're old money, or you have an established niche to market your goods. And if you can, good for you.

I'm no expert in it, really, as it's something subject to heavy biases, with two parties on either end feeling that they are very much right, it's hard to get straight answers. PETA will exaggerate and make sweeping generalizations, while the "farms" would never be that open about their practices, because the average American is (honestly) pretty naive.

Have you ever watched Dirty Jobs? There are at-least 2 episodes about cattle, pigs or whatever, and they take place in the most bleak looking places. Seriously. The animals aren't even really allowed to copulate... they jerk off a selected male pig and manually impregnate the females. (What a bummer.)

I personally just don't like the idea of eating another animal. It's luxurious behavior, and strikes me as wasteful, but mostly I'm just hyper-sympathetic. I project existential feelings on animals that maybe don't even have them. I'll never know though.

Free-range chickens have a lot of meat in their diet. Chickens will eat almost anything, just like humans do. Think not only bugs, but also mice, snakes (if the guineas didn't eat them after they beat them to death), even other chickens.

This statement does not apply to b12.

Vitamins are named for many reasons, but not because of where they come from.

The section of your post about hygiene is really a strange tangent. I was saying that these rural 3rd world vegans didn't get b12 deficiencies, I didn't say they were leading healthy lives.

Not that it matters if I reply, since you have blocked me, right? You're just replying to what you saw in a quote.

oh yeah, that too! id almost forgotten about that, since in my head it was a non-issue.

I'm certainly not trying to be aggressive. I don't think anything I said could be read unkindly either. Maybe Dis-kindly or impassionately, like a robot.