Homosexuality and the Bible (1/5/06)

[jamesthelittle]

Cometh The Inquisitor

jamesthelittle

Or do you not count that because it doesn't use the greek word for homosexuality to descride the relationships described?

Yeah, that's pretty much what the arguement is about. I mean, when there already is a word for homosexuality in greek, why didn't/wouldn't it be used if, homosexuality was being condemned?

How many authors do you know repeat the same word for everything. Paul is the same way. He is Jewish, but also a Roman citizen. He writes with the best Greek knowledge of any author in the New Testament. He is going to mix up his words to keep the readers attention. The Greek word Porneas can be and is used as a "general" word for any sexual immorality. It is used many times when the author doesn't want to list all the sexual sins individually again for the umpteenth time. So in English, then are you saying I can't use homosexuals or gays as a general term to describe both "gay" men and "lesbian" women? Gay is a general term, just like homosexual is a general term to describe anyone who has sexual relations with someone of the same sex. Lesbian is a more precise term used to describe women who have sexual relations with women. I think if we can use generalities today, the rule can apply to the New Testament writers as well.  

[skdfhksjdhf]

Marriage is not a Christian thing. Marriage occours in all cultures around the world. It is a legal bonding between to people. To ban same sex marriage is to enforce your beliefs on others. The government says that's illegal too. It's as bad as saying black people can't become citizens of the country.

 

[skdfhksjdhf]

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It's not about Church and State seperation. It's about the fact that homosexual marriage is just wrong, just like stealing, lying, cheating, and murdering is.

This is something I've seen you Christians post a lot during this topic... let me explain why this wrong.
Stealing, lying, cheating and murdering is against the law because it disadvantages and takes rights away from people. Homosexuality, however, is a natural feeling you can't help that effects nobody but yourself. To say it is 'wrong' is like saying that being attracted to fat people is wrong. It is none of your business to say if it is wrong or not because it has nothing to do with you. Sexuality is influenced by society and your environment, just like your style of clothing and personal taste in music. It is nobody's right to say your opinions are wrong.
And it is part of human nature. Female gorrillas often enjoy bringing eachother to orgasm. That's their nature, is it not?
I watched a program on ABC on homosexuality a couple of years back, that said that only 5 - 10% of people are monosexual (attracted to one sex only) and that 90 - 95% of people are infact bisexual, even if slightly so, but deny their feelings due to the common 'biphobia' that currently exists in society.
How would you feel is the Bible stated that being black was infact a sin, and that as long as you as a black person recognised that you were infact a sinner and as long as you segregated yourself from white people you would not go to hell? I think you'd all agree. But you see, I think the part of the Bible that says homosexual lusts are wrong (if any of it is true at all, which I don't belive) it is a little bit of input from somebody over the years who personally believed homosexuality was wrong. This is highly plausable, since it is in our nature to generally be frightened of things we don't understand, or are not used to. Just like the 'goth hate' that everybody who is a 'normal' person has, or hating gingers, or hating people who look different or 'freakish'. This kind of hatred exists world wide because it is part of human nature, or atleast herded instinct. A truly strong minded person can let go of this, let go of human nature, and decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong, or atleast use basic logic...

Christians seem to lack this simply because they are Christian.. and it is because they lacked it in the first place they became Christian...

 

[ioioouiouiouio]

whimsical-im

I watched a program on ABC on homosexuality a couple of years back, that said that only 5 - 10% of people are monosexual (attracted to one sex only) and that 90 - 95% of people are infact bisexual, even if slightly so, but deny their feelings due to the common 'biphobia' that currently exists in society.

This, I can tell you, is grade 'A' bullcrud. Only 10% of people are gay/bisexual. This 'slightly' junk is where the confusion comes in. The fact that I think a man looks good does NOT make me bisexual. It makes me a person who can judge the looks of another man. This is why we made us words such as 'handsome' or 'cool-looking' in the stead of 'hot' or 'sexy' to delineate between a sexual form of comentary and a non-sexual form. When one uses such bland terms as 'good-looking' or 'nice looking' it is entirely open to interpretation as to whether or not my comments were motivated by sexual orientation or by asthetic preferences.

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How would you feel is the Bible stated that being black was infact a sin, and that as long as you as a black person recognised that you were infact a sinner and as long as you segregated yourself from white people you would not go to hell?

Well, then being black would be wrong and we would believe in segregation.

Funny how it doesn't though..

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I think you'd all agree. But you see, I think the part of the Bible that says homosexual lusts are wrong (if any of it is true at all, which I don't belive) it is a little bit of input from somebody over the years who personally believed homosexuality was wrong.

Well then, I believe your going to have a hard time showing us that the entire Bible is wrong, much less a singlular part of it. Not even Sinner tries to disprove the Bible and, believe you me, he's pretty gutsy.

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This is highly plausable, since it is in our nature to generally be frightened of things we don't understand, or are not used to. Just like the 'goth hate' that everybody who is a 'normal' person has, or hating gingers, or hating people who look different or 'freakish'. This kind of hatred exists world wide because it is part of human nature, or atleast herded instinct. A truly strong minded person can let go of this, let go of human nature, and decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong, or atleast use basic logic...

ooooh, sounds like we have a budding Nietzche-an here. Well, good luck on that Ubermensch dealio.

But really, we know that gays always have been and, for the literal sake of humanity, always will/should be So then, why is it that so many cultures around the world either accept, or, in some cases, elavate homosexuality? Sorry, Christians haven't always been the majority.

Oh, and one more thing, it's natural to have an aversion to homosexuality. Our genes like continuation and homosexuality is , essentially stopping their continuation.

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Christians seem to lack this simply because they are Christian.. and it is because they lacked it in the first place they became Christian...

Well then, miss oh-so-righteous, I would like to point you to wikipedia's section on Circular logic to show you just how truely and profoundly stupid what you just said was.  

[Jedediah Smith]

whimsical-im

Homosexuality, however, is a natural feeling you can't help that effects nobody but yourself. To say it is 'wrong' is like saying that being attracted to fat people is wrong.

This statement doesn't clearly fit the subject. If you are saying that the "natural feelings" towards the same-sex are normal so therefore homosexuality is perfectly ok with God. Wrong, there are many natural feelings that are forbidden in the Bible. Lust, laziness, hate, envy, jealousy are nature feelings but they are sinful to God. The word of God tells us that are flesh hungers what is sinful and it tells us that we are to starve the fleshly nature.

whimsical-im

It is none of your business to say if it is wrong or not because it has nothing to do with you. Sexuality is influenced by society and your environment, just like your style of clothing and personal taste in music. It is nobody's right to say your opinions are wrong.

Christians have the right to stand against homosexuality and educate people about sin. Christians cant control people's lives but they can preach the word of God even if it effects people. Thats what the word of God is there for, correcting and educating people.

whimsical-im

And it is part of human nature. Female gorrillas often enjoy bringing eachother to orgasm. That's their nature, is it not?

We are talking about animals who have basically no self-control over themselves. Comparing homosexual people with animals behavior isn't such a good idea.

whimsical-im

I watched a program on ABC on homosexuality a couple of years back, that said that only 5 - 10% of people are monosexual (attracted to one sex only) and that 90 - 95% of people are infact bisexual, even if slightly so, but deny their feelings due to the common 'biphobia' that currently exists in society.

But yet only 10% or less of Americans are homosexuals which doesn't add up from ABC polls. Its just a theory...

whimsical-im

How would you feel is the Bible stated that being black was infact a sin, and that as long as you as a black person recognised that you were infact a sinner and as long as you segregated yourself from white people you would not go to hell? I think you'd all agree.

Now, we are dealing with birthright and acts of sin. Negros are born black and homosexual acts are based on choice. This argument doesn't work.

whimsical-im

But you see, I think the part of the Bible that says homosexual lusts are wrong (if any of it is true at all, which I don't belive) it is a little bit of input from somebody over the years who personally believed homosexuality was wrong.

Are you suggesting that the Bible was edited for personal reasons? You could believe this but there is no evidence of your claim. I'm sad you believe this.

whimsical-im

This kind of hatred exists world wide because it is part of human nature, or atleast herded instinct. A truly strong minded person can let go of this, let go of human nature, and decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong, or atleast use basic logic...

Now secular humanism appears which the Word of God is against.  

[jamesthelittle]

Jedediah Smith

whimsical-im

Homosexuality, however, is a natural feeling you can't help that effects nobody but yourself. To say it is 'wrong' is like saying that being attracted to fat people is wrong.

This statement doesn't clearly fit the subject. If you are saying that the "natural feelings" towards the same-sex are normal so therefore homosexuality is perfectly ok with God. Wrong, there are many natural feelings that are forbidden in the Bible. Lust, laziness, hate, envy, jealousy are nature feelings but they are sinful to God. The word of God tells us that are flesh hungers what is sinful and it tells us that we are to starve the fleshly nature.

whimsical-im

It is none of your business to say if it is wrong or not because it has nothing to do with you. Sexuality is influenced by society and your environment, just like your style of clothing and personal taste in music. It is nobody's right to say your opinions are wrong.

Christians have the right to stand against homosexuality and educate people about sin. Christians cant control people's lives but they can preach the word of God even if it effects people. Thats what the word of God is there for, correcting and educating people.

whimsical-im

And it is part of human nature. Female gorrillas often enjoy bringing eachother to orgasm. That's their nature, is it not?

We are talking about animals who have basically no self-control over themselves. Comparing homosexual people with animals behavior isn't such a good idea.

whimsical-im

I watched a program on ABC on homosexuality a couple of years back, that said that only 5 - 10% of people are monosexual (attracted to one sex only) and that 90 - 95% of people are infact bisexual, even if slightly so, but deny their feelings due to the common 'biphobia' that currently exists in society.

But yet only 10% or less of Americans are homosexuals which doesn't add up from ABC polls. Its just a theory...

whimsical-im

How would you feel is the Bible stated that being black was infact a sin, and that as long as you as a black person recognised that you were infact a sinner and as long as you segregated yourself from white people you would not go to hell? I think you'd all agree.

Now, we are dealing with birthright and acts of sin. Negros are born black and homosexual acts are based on choice. This argument doesn't work.

whimsical-im

But you see, I think the part of the Bible that says homosexual lusts are wrong (if any of it is true at all, which I don't belive) it is a little bit of input from somebody over the years who personally believed homosexuality was wrong.

Are you suggesting that the Bible was edited for personal reasons? You could believe this but there is no evidence of your claim. I'm sad you believe this.

whimsical-im

This kind of hatred exists world wide because it is part of human nature, or atleast herded instinct. A truly strong minded person can let go of this, let go of human nature, and decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong, or atleast use basic logic...

Now secular humanism appears which the Word of God is against.

You go Jedediah! Well put sir!  

[Penguinone]

Cometh The Inquisitor

aznkiddie

By the way, I never said we shouldn't try to understand God's word but what about the church that accepts homosexuals and other sexual immoralities?

This enitre debate is about whether or not homosexuality actually is 'sexual immorality'.

Cometh The Inquisitor

aznkiddie

I listened from an ex-homosexual speaker talking about how church that accepts homosexuality and other activists try to use Bible verses and twist them to justify homosexuality is right.

That's impossible. Homosexuality is not something you can simply stop being. It's determined by brain chemistry, yo.

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Like they use David and Jonathan as being possibility of homosexual partners. So you think it's okay for us to accept these too?

We're supposed to accept all people.

Are you saying that one cannot stop being a homosexual due to brain chemistry? Then you'd better have a talk with Dr. James Dobson...  

[ioioouiouiouio]

aznkiddie

Are you saying that one cannot stop being a homosexual due to brain chemistry? Then you'd better have a talk with Dr. James Dobson...

Dr. James Dobson's book 'Bringing up Boys'

Homosexuals deeply resent being told that they selected this same-sex inclination in pursuit of sexual excitement or some other motive. It is unfair, and I don't blame them for being irritated by that assumption. Who among us would knowingly choose a path that would result in alienation from family; rejection by friends, disdain from the heterosexual world, exposure to sexually transmitted diseases such as AIDS and tuberculosis, and even a shorter lifespan? No, homosexuality is not "chosen" except in rare circumstances.

No, I'm pretty sure that Dr. James agrees with the American Psychological Association.  

[Sinner]

Cometh The Inquisitor

No, I'm pretty sure that Dr. James agrees with the American Psychological Association.

rofl

That was... beautiful.  

[Plushi-kun]

This is quit difficult U_U
God tells us to love each other, God IS love, so why can't a man love another man? people are born that way 3nodding God makes us like that, it's really hard to believe that God would hate gay people
Still the things writen in the bible scare me and make me sad cry  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Shuichi_bad_luck

This is quit difficult U_U
God tells us to love each other, God IS love, so why can't a man love another man? people are born that way 3nodding God makes us like that, it's really hard to believe that God would hate gay people
Still the things writen in the bible scare me and make me sad cry

Men are supposed to love one another. I love every man ever created. I also love every woman ever created. However, this kind of love (known in the bible as 'Agape' [or something like that spelling]) is not the type of love that is between, say, a man and wife, or a parent and a child.

It is not the love that God condemns, but the physical aspect (the lust).  

[Plushi-kun]

Ensamflygar

but wouldn't you agree it is strange to assume that He who is love should condem someone for loving?

That exactly what I've said once, and it's true, people get born that way, there's not much you can do about that ne?

I talked with my mom about it, my mom and dad divorced because my dad didn't loved her and they only did it 2 times
So my mom always says: "I lived my whole life actually without sex, so gay men should just do the same"

meh I think that's wrong, not everybody is the same, and if 2 men really love eachother I see nothing wrong with it, we never can be really sure cause of what is writen in the bible, but like said: God is love, even if it is a sin it has been forgiven on the cross, and it should be in the new testament, not the old ne? well that's just my thought about it  

[Plushi-kun]

Cometh The Inquisitor

Shuichi_bad_luck

This is quit difficult U_U
God tells us to love each other, God IS love, so why can't a man love another man? people are born that way 3nodding God makes us like that, it's really hard to believe that God would hate gay people
Still the things writen in the bible scare me and make me sad cry

Men are supposed to love one another. I love every man ever created. I also love every woman ever created. However, this kind of love (known in the bible as 'Agape' [or something like that spelling]) is not the type of love that is between, say, a man and wife, or a parent and a child.

It is not the love that God condemns, but the physical aspect (the lust).

oh I forgot I already posted here sweatdrop lol

anyway you're saying the same thing my mom said: Men can love, but not have sex
You know how difficult that is? 0.o Love creates those feelings  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Plushi-kun

anyway you're saying the same thing my mom said: Men can love, but not have sex
You know how difficult that is? 0.o Love creates those feelings

No it doesn't. Lust creates those feelings (or, if you want to go deeper, our natural proclivity towards procreation creates these feelings). Love has nothing to do with it.  

[Angel_Nyx]

I find it incredible that you are all ignoring all of the verses prior to and after Lev. 18:22 where God describes other sexual sins (such as incest and beastiality) and also child sacrifices to the pagan god Molech. These are also part of part of ceremonial law, but does this mean that they should be ignored or that they are no longer considered sinful? What about in chapter 19 when it talks about gossiping, or not insulting the deaf or causing the blind to stumble, or cheating? Those are also in ceremonial law, I don't believe that's what Paul meant we should discard from the Old Testament.