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 Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:33 pm
Let me just say, I am perfectly fine with abortion; Total 100% Pro-Choice.
The needs of the mother must come before the needs of something that has not even been born yet. Until 40 days after conception, the fetus doesn't even have a soul.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:07 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew Let me just say, I am perfectly fine with abortion; Total 100% Pro-Choice.
The needs of the mother must come before the needs of something that has not even been born yet. Until 40 days after conception, the fetus doesn't even have a soul. Is the 40 days derived from the Torah? And what about after 40 days; are you pro-choice then, when the fetus has a soul?
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:11 pm
Nebulance Lumanny the Space Jew Let me just say, I am perfectly fine with abortion; Total 100% Pro-Choice.
The needs of the mother must come before the needs of something that has not even been born yet. Until 40 days after conception, the fetus doesn't even have a soul. Is the 40 days derived from the Torah? And what about after 40 days; are you pro-choice then, when the fetus has a soul? Halachally, a feotus doesn't have a soul until it is half way out of the mother during the act of giving birth.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:14 pm
Nebulance Gornwen Nebulance Gornwen Nebulance The Bible says to protect those that cannot protect themselves. In that day, it was the widows and the orphans. Today, it is the unborn. Forgive us our zeal.
People will continue to choose, for whatever their reasons are, to have abortions. Some are for very sane medical conditions, either relating to the mother or the unborn child, many being horrendous birth defects in which the child would only live a few months at most. Some are because the mother feels as if this would be a horrible world to bring a child into, for whatever her reasoning may be. Others because of rape/incest/etc. I'm not going to judge the reason as I do not know when life begins and do not believe I can dictate that to people who believe differently than me. That said, if electing to receive an abortion, the crack whore has the same right to good medical care as the heiress and should not be forced to a back alley while the heiress takes a flight to Geneva.You do realize that abortions are used to cover up statutory rape by the offendors? That allowing free access to abortion is not 'protecting' girls, it's hurting them? Mona Lisa Project
Yes, I realize that some cases of statutory rape are more grave than that, but I fail to see the difference between the 17 and 18 years of age, especially when it could be just days. And a girl could be pressure into having sex by someone her age, younger, or older.Watch some of the videos on that link, where the undercover reporter (posing as an underage girl) tells Planned Parenthood that her 'boyfriend' is 27 and then they proceed to coach her on how to lie to her parents about it... pretty chilling. Actually, we can't see anything that shows it's actually filmed in a clinic. I can see why Youtube is banning their vids. For all we know, it's just a bunch of actors. Kind of reminds me of the "high quality undercover" footage of the supposed FEMA internment camps that extremists are trying to push as real.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:16 pm
In Medias Res IV Nebulance Lumanny the Space Jew Let me just say, I am perfectly fine with abortion; Total 100% Pro-Choice.
The needs of the mother must come before the needs of something that has not even been born yet. Until 40 days after conception, the fetus doesn't even have a soul. Is the 40 days derived from the Torah? And what about after 40 days; are you pro-choice then, when the fetus has a soul? Halachally, a feotus doesn't have a soul until it is half way out of the mother during the act of giving birth. Just asking his personal views. But since you mentioned yours; what support do you have for that belief? Halfway out seems a bit arbitrary.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Nebulance Bouidicca So if we are to fight for the rights of the unborn with much diligence, does that include choosing to kill doctors and nurses who provide those services as PART of the care they provide? Or do you condemn those "vigilantes" that take things into their own hands and use the Bible to justify their actions. If using force would actually stop abortions, myself and thousands of other Christians would have done so long ago, and abortions would have been stopped. I think you would find that there are more that would defend that right to choice than certain Christian's desire to MURDER for their own self-righteious beliefs.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:28 pm
Bouidicca Nebulance Bouidicca So if we are to fight for the rights of the unborn with much diligence, does that include choosing to kill doctors and nurses who provide those services as PART of the care they provide? Or do you condemn those "vigilantes" that take things into their own hands and use the Bible to justify their actions. If using force would actually stop abortions, myself and thousands of other Christians would have done so long ago, and abortions would have been stopped. I think you would find that there are more that would defend that right to choice than certain Christian's desire to MURDER for their own self-righteious beliefs. Wait... are you accusing me being willing to murder while simultaneously assuring me that there are many MORE on your side who would be willing to take the same action? That's kind of funny.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:46 pm
Nebulance Bouidicca Nebulance Bouidicca So if we are to fight for the rights of the unborn with much diligence, does that include choosing to kill doctors and nurses who provide those services as PART of the care they provide? Or do you condemn those "vigilantes" that take things into their own hands and use the Bible to justify their actions. If using force would actually stop abortions, myself and thousands of other Christians would have done so long ago, and abortions would have been stopped. I think you would find that there are more that would defend that right to choice than certain Christian's desire to MURDER for their own self-righteious beliefs. Wait... are you accusing me being willing to murder while simultaneously assuring me that there are many MORE on your side who would be willing to take the same action? That's kind of funny. No, it's called defending ourselves from being attacked. If women are in a clinic and it is attacked, they have every right to defend their lives against those vigilantes using the Bible to justify their actions. If that means armed security to fend off these attacks, then many of us would volunteer to keep watch over our clinics and keep those inside them safe.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:54 pm
Bouidicca Nebulance Bouidicca Nebulance Bouidicca So if we are to fight for the rights of the unborn with much diligence, does that include choosing to kill doctors and nurses who provide those services as PART of the care they provide? Or do you condemn those "vigilantes" that take things into their own hands and use the Bible to justify their actions. If using force would actually stop abortions, myself and thousands of other Christians would have done so long ago, and abortions would have been stopped. I think you would find that there are more that would defend that right to choice than certain Christian's desire to MURDER for their own self-righteious beliefs. Wait... are you accusing me being willing to murder while simultaneously assuring me that there are many MORE on your side who would be willing to take the same action? That's kind of funny. No, it's called defending ourselves from being attacked. If women are in a clinic and it is attacked, they have every right to defend their lives against those vigilantes using the Bible to justify their actions. If that means armed security to fend off these attacks, then many of us would volunteer to keep watch over our clinics and keep those inside them safe. Take as a given that you are allowed to use violence to defend yourself or others against violence-- not everyone will accept that, but apparently the two of us do-- the only question then left when determining who is 'murdering' or 'assaulting' and who is 'defending' is, "Who committed violence against others first?" Obviously, I believe that would be the doctors performing the abortions and you believe that would be anyone trying to stop them. We're both equally justified from our own points of view, which aren't likely to change here... And as I said, violence against abortion doctors/clinics is NOT effectively defending unborn children, and so is NOT justified. Just to be clear.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:56 pm
Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance Lumanny the Space Jew Let me just say, I am perfectly fine with abortion; Total 100% Pro-Choice.
The needs of the mother must come before the needs of something that has not even been born yet. Until 40 days after conception, the fetus doesn't even have a soul. Is the 40 days derived from the Torah? And what about after 40 days; are you pro-choice then, when the fetus has a soul? Halachally, a feotus doesn't have a soul until it is half way out of the mother during the act of giving birth. Just asking his personal views. But since you mentioned yours; what support do you have for that belief? Halfway out seems a bit arbitrary. Uh.. a foetus only becomes a nefesh when the body is half way out of the womb... I said this is halachah.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:09 am
Really, what I believe abortion-wise has nothing to do with being a Christian.
I used to be hardcore pro-choice until my mom told me when I was 18 that she had an abortion when she was around my age now (which is 20). For some reason, everything since then has changed.
Technically, I am still pro-choice. I believe that in a society like ours, making abortions illegal would have far more negative outcomes than good.
I don't like abortion. I don't really approve of people getting abortions. But I know that the ability of having a legal abortion is far better than not and doing it the old fashioned way that would be very dangerous.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:06 am
comfortably_dumb Really, what I believe abortion-wise has nothing to do with being a Christian. I used to be hardcore pro-choice until my mom told me when I was 18 that she had an abortion when she was around my age now (which is 20). For some reason, everything since then has changed. Technically, I am still pro-choice. I believe that in a society like ours, making abortions illegal would have far more negative outcomes than good. I don't like abortion. I don't really approve of people getting abortions. But I know that the ability of having a legal abortion is far better than not and doing it the old fashioned way that would be very dangerous. Agreed, the last thing we need is to go back to the days of clothes hangers and back alley abortions.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:46 pm
Religion is irrelevant, a fetus is a living human being. Killing it is therefore wrong, unless the mother's life is in serious danger. Otherwise, there is no excuse and no right to kill another human being.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:23 pm
In Medias Res IV ILuvR0L0S In Medias Res IV Woman's body, woman's choice. Personally, one less brat that can't be taken care of properly, IMO. If a woman's life is in jeopardy by giving birth, she must abort the feotus. This is LAW in my religion. I'm sorry so your saying that if your own mother decided hey what the heck I don't want a child right now I'll just get rid of it that's fine. Your condoning murder and last I checked that's a crime. As for you calling a child a brat you were one once too. The baby is seperate from the woman's body. She's not harming her body she's harming the babies. Child abuse if I do say so myself and last I checked that's a crime as well. It's not murder. If I was born to a drug addicted, impoverished, single mother who couldn't and didn't want to take care of me, I might have wished I was aborted. If I was born to a woman who was raped and I was the reminder of the man who had put her through torture, I would hate myself. It's NOT murder. G-d ******** condones abortion in my religion and it's the same ******** G-d as you have. The soul does NOT enter the body until the first breath. Wanna know what is child abuse? Smacking a kid around for no reason, NOT aborting a feotus. Do not call me a murderer again. I also permit circumcision, s**t, I'm like.. a double-whammy child abuser. What Synagogue do you attend again? Orthodox Judaism is pro-abortion? Sadly I must confess I know there are pro-abortion Rabbi, but only in the United States and luckily only like four I have ever heard of and one I have met, but none of them are Orthodox Rabbi. Orthodox Judaism is not something we mold to fit our lives, nor is the sacred Tanak'h. We mold our lives into them. By conception HaShem knew Y'hoshua and Moshe, David and Sh'muel. HaShem knows the very hairs on our heads so why would HaShem not know when conception is and when life is first gathered to those upon whom have conjugated? "As the seed of life is implanted from the man upon union with his woman so there is life" as Rambam said. Yes, Rambam agreed with Roman Catholics on at least this issue.
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:11 pm
I think that abortion is wrong. It is taking the life of the innocent before they are even born. Change two letter of abortion and what do you get? Adoption. There are other alternatives.
Also, to avoid the need or wish to get rid of a child, there are ways such as keeping away from sexual imorality and being careful who you choose to marry.
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