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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:50 am
divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. You must admit, she makes an excellent point... If all three religions were the same and had the same god, then why would there be three of the religions instead of one? If they were the same then why are jews, or more specifically, hebrews being killed by Islamic people in Israel? You hear about the bombings, don't you think they would have realized and said "Hey, you and us and you too, over there, we are all the same! Let's stop killing and beating the crap out of one another and just worship together, since we all believe the same things and worship the same god. What's all the need for this fighting?" I think if you posed your idea to an Islamic person, a Jew, and a christian in the same room I don't think they would be very happy. It's why the Hebrew and Arab nations haven't been able to make peace for hundreds of years and many generations. Why three religions- Because of people like you and Osama Bin Laden and George Bush who forget that we all worship the same God. We forget because of many reasons- Time, language barriers, political distrust, cultural ethics. It is HUMANS who are unwilling to compromise and work together in the name of GOD. We don't all worship the same God. Each of the different religons preaches a different message. Quote: Why are jews being killed? Political reasons. The jews left their home in search of opportunity or to escape a war or something. Muslims entered that land and settled down. Jews came back and wanted their land back. Muslims said no. It's not over religion, it's over politics and world possession. ALL of the religious disagreement spawns there, and then "key" differences are searched for and stretched to dehumanize the opposition. Common war tactics. If you have something like religion driving an army, you can get the support of much of that religious group. God's work and all. Over hundreds of years, the hatred continues and gets worse. Would speaking logically about their one religion help? At this point, it would depend on who you talked to. As shown here, some people are too stuck in their ways to give up the hate. Actually, it's more about religion then politics. Each religion states that that piece of land is their Holy Land, and won't let the other settle upon it.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:53 am
divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph No other God, yet muslims and jews believe in the same God, but not in Jesus as the messiah. Looking at the logic that Jesus IS God, then believing in Jesus is believing in God, and believing in God is believing in God, so believing in Jesus OR God is believing in the same thing. See the modus ponens above. May i ask where you see that Muslims believe in the same God? Just curious as to where you get your information, i haven't heard that. I believe that Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity, and the holy trinity itself is God in three parts. I don't believe you can have one without the other two. You can have Jesus by himself being God if you didn't have the Father do send Jesus or the Holy Spirit to come forth afterward. In my opinion, you can't have God without all three parts smile And I haven't tried it, but i don't think that works with your modus ponens. It's nice to see latin again...^_^ Trinities? How interesting you mention that. http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724 This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David. But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet. Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same?
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:54 am
xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. You must admit, she makes an excellent point... If all three religions were the same and had the same god, then why would there be three of the religions instead of one? If they were the same then why are jews, or more specifically, hebrews being killed by Islamic people in Israel? You hear about the bombings, don't you think they would have realized and said "Hey, you and us and you too, over there, we are all the same! Let's stop killing and beating the crap out of one another and just worship together, since we all believe the same things and worship the same god. What's all the need for this fighting?" I think if you posed your idea to an Islamic person, a Jew, and a christian in the same room I don't think they would be very happy. It's why the Hebrew and Arab nations haven't been able to make peace for hundreds of years and many generations. Why three religions- Because of people like you and Osama Bin Laden and George Bush who forget that we all worship the same God. We forget because of many reasons- Time, language barriers, political distrust, cultural ethics. It is HUMANS who are unwilling to compromise and work together in the name of GOD. We don't all worship the same God. Each of the different religons preaches a different message. Quote: Why are jews being killed? Political reasons. The jews left their home in search of opportunity or to escape a war or something. Muslims entered that land and settled down. Jews came back and wanted their land back. Muslims said no. It's not over religion, it's over politics and world possession. ALL of the religious disagreement spawns there, and then "key" differences are searched for and stretched to dehumanize the opposition. Common war tactics. If you have something like religion driving an army, you can get the support of much of that religious group. God's work and all. Over hundreds of years, the hatred continues and gets worse. Would speaking logically about their one religion help? At this point, it would depend on who you talked to. As shown here, some people are too stuck in their ways to give up the hate. Actually, it's more about religion then politics. Each religion states that that piece of land is their Holy Land, and won't let the other settle upon it. That is a convenient excuse to fight over the land. It would have never been an issue if the jews had never left or if the muslims had allowed them to return. It is human greed.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:55 am
divineseraph mazuac Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible.  He has Redeemed Me! Though I Yes, thanks~ You make an EXCELLENT point! am undeserving, He gave his life for mine. Excellent, if it weren't absolutely incorrect. We've gone over the name of God. But I forgot to mention- Muslims DO believe in Jesus, as a prophet. Big whoop. Some christians believe in Jesus as a man rather than actually God himself. Doesn't make him any less important. I already talked about this. Refer to the above post.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:56 am
xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph No other God, yet muslims and jews believe in the same God, but not in Jesus as the messiah. Looking at the logic that Jesus IS God, then believing in Jesus is believing in God, and believing in God is believing in God, so believing in Jesus OR God is believing in the same thing. See the modus ponens above. May i ask where you see that Muslims believe in the same God? Just curious as to where you get your information, i haven't heard that. I believe that Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity, and the holy trinity itself is God in three parts. I don't believe you can have one without the other two. You can have Jesus by himself being God if you didn't have the Father do send Jesus or the Holy Spirit to come forth afterward. In my opinion, you can't have God without all three parts smile And I haven't tried it, but i don't think that works with your modus ponens. It's nice to see latin again...^_^ Trinities? How interesting you mention that. http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724 This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David. But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet. Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same? No they don't. Muslims believe that Mohammed is a prophet. Not the son of God. And other than the "Who's the son of God" question, all of the religions are exactly the same. Even some christians don't think Jesus WAS God, but just the latest powerful prophet.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:58 am
xxPromarkxx Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same? See, that's just wrong. Muhammad is God's prophet; Muslims never claimed that he was the son of God. That is one hell of a factual error, lad. You gotta do more research before you get into these debates.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:58 am
divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. You must admit, she makes an excellent point... If all three religions were the same and had the same god, then why would there be three of the religions instead of one? If they were the same then why are jews, or more specifically, hebrews being killed by Islamic people in Israel? You hear about the bombings, don't you think they would have realized and said "Hey, you and us and you too, over there, we are all the same! Let's stop killing and beating the crap out of one another and just worship together, since we all believe the same things and worship the same god. What's all the need for this fighting?" I think if you posed your idea to an Islamic person, a Jew, and a christian in the same room I don't think they would be very happy. It's why the Hebrew and Arab nations haven't been able to make peace for hundreds of years and many generations. Why three religions- Because of people like you and Osama Bin Laden and George Bush who forget that we all worship the same God. We forget because of many reasons- Time, language barriers, political distrust, cultural ethics. It is HUMANS who are unwilling to compromise and work together in the name of GOD. We don't all worship the same God. Each of the different religons preaches a different message. Quote: Why are jews being killed? Political reasons. The jews left their home in search of opportunity or to escape a war or something. Muslims entered that land and settled down. Jews came back and wanted their land back. Muslims said no. It's not over religion, it's over politics and world possession. ALL of the religious disagreement spawns there, and then "key" differences are searched for and stretched to dehumanize the opposition. Common war tactics. If you have something like religion driving an army, you can get the support of much of that religious group. God's work and all. Over hundreds of years, the hatred continues and gets worse. Would speaking logically about their one religion help? At this point, it would depend on who you talked to. As shown here, some people are too stuck in their ways to give up the hate. Actually, it's more about religion then politics. Each religion states that that piece of land is their Holy Land, and won't let the other settle upon it. That is a convenient excuse to fight over the land. It would have never been an issue if the jews had never left or if the muslims had allowed them to return. It is human greed. No, it still would have happened, except that the Jews would be defending and the Muslims attacking.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:01 pm
divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph No other God, yet muslims and jews believe in the same God, but not in Jesus as the messiah. Looking at the logic that Jesus IS God, then believing in Jesus is believing in God, and believing in God is believing in God, so believing in Jesus OR God is believing in the same thing. See the modus ponens above. May i ask where you see that Muslims believe in the same God? Just curious as to where you get your information, i haven't heard that. I believe that Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity, and the holy trinity itself is God in three parts. I don't believe you can have one without the other two. You can have Jesus by himself being God if you didn't have the Father do send Jesus or the Holy Spirit to come forth afterward. In my opinion, you can't have God without all three parts smile And I haven't tried it, but i don't think that works with your modus ponens. It's nice to see latin again...^_^ Trinities? How interesting you mention that. http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724 This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David. But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet. Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same? No they don't. Muslims believe that Mohammed is a prophet. Not the son of God. And other than the "Who's the son of God" question, all of the religions are exactly the same. Even some christians don't think Jesus WAS God, but just the latest powerful prophet. Sorry, I've haven't slept for the past four days. Even so, the religions are drastically different. Just compare the Bible with the Qur'an.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:01 pm
Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same. As to your second response to me: World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion. And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain. Thanks to Siren and Promark. You're welcome Angel of the End. Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals. And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong. I was paraphrasing Matthew 18:20-22. After that there is no exceptions to what can be forgiven. It is simply saying that those who sin should be forgiven. And it is true that any religion can seem harsh, but in the Islamic countries today, thieves still lose their hand, women are forced to wear head coverings, and can't have power within the family for fear of getting brutally beaten, even killed. They still live by the old religious texts. and Judaism still follows the old kosher laws given to them, but as for punishment and sacrifice they were forced to conform with the current laws of society. In the Christian religion, when Jesus came to Earth he fulfilled the old law, the Old Covenant which God created with Abraham. He then nullified that Old Covenant and made the New Covenant with us, that came about with his death on the cross, which saved us from our sins. We no longer live by the old outdated texts. When did I ever say Muslims were bad for believing what they believe? When did I ever condemn them or anyone that sinned? I simply believe that what the Muslims believe is wrong as part of my extensive beliefs. I believe that people sin, even me, but that I shouldn't condemn everyone for it. I have friends that are Wiccan, homosexuals, lying manipulators, conceited and self-centered. And I'm some of those things. But it's not my place to judge them. And I do believe in the other prophets. I do believe that what they taught as part of the Old Covenant was valid when they taught it. They were correct when it was their time to teach. I believe in the disciples and what they taught. I simply believe that Jesus nullified the Old Covenant and created a New Covenant with his death. And I believe that believing that Jesus did this so we could all be saved for eternity is the only way of getting to heaven. I believe it is as he said. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Again, human greed and worldly power justified by outdated religious texts. Some extremist christians resort to violence. KKK comes to mind. Again the "Except through me"- Very ambiguous, could mean many things. Such as living LIKE him, through is example. And as for muslims being bad- If they are wrong in you god's eyes, then they must be sinning and must be bad. I see no other reason to condemn them to hellfire unless they are truly bad, in your eyes.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:03 pm
xxPromarkxx divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same. As to your second response to me: World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion. And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain. Thanks to Siren and Promark. You're welcome Angel of the End. Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals. And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong. Geez, you're making one mistake after another aren't you? Seriously, stop taking things out of context. Like my sister said, Jesus fullfilled the covenant and the old laws while at the same time negated them. We never said the Muslims were bad. We just think that all the other religions are wrong, just the same as the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists. Please, stop insulting people. I'm not the only one taking things out of context. I am using the lack of context to prove the invalidity of the logic being presented. If all other religions are wrong, then what happens to them? Can you really condemn an entire group of people to burn forever for something you believe? How is this not hateful?
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:04 pm
xxPromarkxx divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn You must admit, she makes an excellent point... If all three religions were the same and had the same god, then why would there be three of the religions instead of one? If they were the same then why are jews, or more specifically, hebrews being killed by Islamic people in Israel? You hear about the bombings, don't you think they would have realized and said "Hey, you and us and you too, over there, we are all the same! Let's stop killing and beating the crap out of one another and just worship together, since we all believe the same things and worship the same god. What's all the need for this fighting?" I think if you posed your idea to an Islamic person, a Jew, and a christian in the same room I don't think they would be very happy. It's why the Hebrew and Arab nations haven't been able to make peace for hundreds of years and many generations. Why three religions- Because of people like you and Osama Bin Laden and George Bush who forget that we all worship the same God. We forget because of many reasons- Time, language barriers, political distrust, cultural ethics. It is HUMANS who are unwilling to compromise and work together in the name of GOD. We don't all worship the same God. Each of the different religons preaches a different message. Quote: Why are jews being killed? Political reasons. The jews left their home in search of opportunity or to escape a war or something. Muslims entered that land and settled down. Jews came back and wanted their land back. Muslims said no. It's not over religion, it's over politics and world possession. ALL of the religious disagreement spawns there, and then "key" differences are searched for and stretched to dehumanize the opposition. Common war tactics. If you have something like religion driving an army, you can get the support of much of that religious group. God's work and all. Over hundreds of years, the hatred continues and gets worse. Would speaking logically about their one religion help? At this point, it would depend on who you talked to. As shown here, some people are too stuck in their ways to give up the hate. Actually, it's more about religion then politics. Each religion states that that piece of land is their Holy Land, and won't let the other settle upon it. That is a convenient excuse to fight over the land. It would have never been an issue if the jews had never left or if the muslims had allowed them to return. It is human greed. No, it still would have happened, except that the Jews would be defending and the Muslims attacking. You may say so. But I say they wouldn't. What makes either of us wrong?
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:05 pm
xxPromarkxx divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph Siren of Saturn divineseraph No other God, yet muslims and jews believe in the same God, but not in Jesus as the messiah. Looking at the logic that Jesus IS God, then believing in Jesus is believing in God, and believing in God is believing in God, so believing in Jesus OR God is believing in the same thing. See the modus ponens above. May i ask where you see that Muslims believe in the same God? Just curious as to where you get your information, i haven't heard that. I believe that Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity, and the holy trinity itself is God in three parts. I don't believe you can have one without the other two. You can have Jesus by himself being God if you didn't have the Father do send Jesus or the Holy Spirit to come forth afterward. In my opinion, you can't have God without all three parts smile And I haven't tried it, but i don't think that works with your modus ponens. It's nice to see latin again...^_^ Trinities? How interesting you mention that. http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724 This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David. But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet. Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same? No they don't. Muslims believe that Mohammed is a prophet. Not the son of God. And other than the "Who's the son of God" question, all of the religions are exactly the same. Even some christians don't think Jesus WAS God, but just the latest powerful prophet. Sorry, I've haven't slept for the past four days. Even so, the religions are drastically different. Just compare the Bible with the Qur'an. On the first few pages, I post the 5 pillars and 5 tenets of Islam. They look oddly familiar. Edit, here they are. Such different beliefs? Five basic tenets- 1- There is One God. 2- Mohammed was a prophet, as were Jesus, Moses and all other aforementioned abrahamic prophets. 3- The Koran is the last holy book, following the Bible, Torah and Gospel of Jesus. 4- Life is a test to see who follows the basic rules. 5- The faithful go to heaven. Five pillars (Much like christian and jewish 10 commandments)- 1- Profession of Faith (There is only one God) 2-Prayer (five time a day) 3- Giving alms to the poor (Jesus never did anything like this. He loved kicking beggars and pimp-slapping prostitutes.) 4-Fasting (Again, what kind of anti-christ b*****d would fast for, say, 40 days in the deserts of the middle east?) 5- Pilgrimage
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:07 pm
divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none. True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same. As to your second response to me: World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion. And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain. Thanks to Siren and Promark. You're welcome Angel of the End. Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals. And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong. I was paraphrasing Matthew 18:20-22. After that there is no exceptions to what can be forgiven. It is simply saying that those who sin should be forgiven. And it is true that any religion can seem harsh, but in the Islamic countries today, thieves still lose their hand, women are forced to wear head coverings, and can't have power within the family for fear of getting brutally beaten, even killed. They still live by the old religious texts. and Judaism still follows the old kosher laws given to them, but as for punishment and sacrifice they were forced to conform with the current laws of society. In the Christian religion, when Jesus came to Earth he fulfilled the old law, the Old Covenant which God created with Abraham. He then nullified that Old Covenant and made the New Covenant with us, that came about with his death on the cross, which saved us from our sins. We no longer live by the old outdated texts. When did I ever say Muslims were bad for believing what they believe? When did I ever condemn them or anyone that sinned? I simply believe that what the Muslims believe is wrong as part of my extensive beliefs. I believe that people sin, even me, but that I shouldn't condemn everyone for it. I have friends that are Wiccan, homosexuals, lying manipulators, conceited and self-centered. And I'm some of those things. But it's not my place to judge them. And I do believe in the other prophets. I do believe that what they taught as part of the Old Covenant was valid when they taught it. They were correct when it was their time to teach. I believe in the disciples and what they taught. I simply believe that Jesus nullified the Old Covenant and created a New Covenant with his death. And I believe that believing that Jesus did this so we could all be saved for eternity is the only way of getting to heaven. I believe it is as he said. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Again, human greed and worldly power justified by outdated religious texts. Some extremist christians resort to violence. KKK comes to mind. Again the "Except through me"- Very ambiguous, could mean many things. Such as living LIKE him, through is example. And as for muslims being bad- If they are wrong in you god's eyes, then they must be sinning and must be bad. I see no other reason to condemn them to hellfire unless they are truly bad, in your eyes. Okay, listen very, very, very closely: I will never, ever, EVER, condem ANYONE to hell. EVER.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:07 pm
divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph xxPromarkxx divineseraph Why three religions- Because of people like you and Osama Bin Laden and George Bush who forget that we all worship the same God. We forget because of many reasons- Time, language barriers, political distrust, cultural ethics. It is HUMANS who are unwilling to compromise and work together in the name of GOD. We don't all worship the same God. Each of the different religons preaches a different message. Quote: Why are jews being killed? Political reasons. The jews left their home in search of opportunity or to escape a war or something. Muslims entered that land and settled down. Jews came back and wanted their land back. Muslims said no. It's not over religion, it's over politics and world possession. ALL of the religious disagreement spawns there, and then "key" differences are searched for and stretched to dehumanize the opposition. Common war tactics. If you have something like religion driving an army, you can get the support of much of that religious group. God's work and all. Over hundreds of years, the hatred continues and gets worse. Would speaking logically about their one religion help? At this point, it would depend on who you talked to. As shown here, some people are too stuck in their ways to give up the hate. Actually, it's more about religion then politics. Each religion states that that piece of land is their Holy Land, and won't let the other settle upon it. That is a convenient excuse to fight over the land. It would have never been an issue if the jews had never left or if the muslims had allowed them to return. It is human greed. No, it still would have happened, except that the Jews would be defending and the Muslims attacking. You may say so. But I say they wouldn't. What makes either of us wrong? When we die, we can ask God.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:08 pm
xxPromarkxx divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same. As to your second response to me: World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion. And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain. Thanks to Siren and Promark. You're welcome Angel of the End. Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals. And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong. I was paraphrasing Matthew 18:20-22. After that there is no exceptions to what can be forgiven. It is simply saying that those who sin should be forgiven. And it is true that any religion can seem harsh, but in the Islamic countries today, thieves still lose their hand, women are forced to wear head coverings, and can't have power within the family for fear of getting brutally beaten, even killed. They still live by the old religious texts. and Judaism still follows the old kosher laws given to them, but as for punishment and sacrifice they were forced to conform with the current laws of society. In the Christian religion, when Jesus came to Earth he fulfilled the old law, the Old Covenant which God created with Abraham. He then nullified that Old Covenant and made the New Covenant with us, that came about with his death on the cross, which saved us from our sins. We no longer live by the old outdated texts. When did I ever say Muslims were bad for believing what they believe? When did I ever condemn them or anyone that sinned? I simply believe that what the Muslims believe is wrong as part of my extensive beliefs. I believe that people sin, even me, but that I shouldn't condemn everyone for it. I have friends that are Wiccan, homosexuals, lying manipulators, conceited and self-centered. And I'm some of those things. But it's not my place to judge them. And I do believe in the other prophets. I do believe that what they taught as part of the Old Covenant was valid when they taught it. They were correct when it was their time to teach. I believe in the disciples and what they taught. I simply believe that Jesus nullified the Old Covenant and created a New Covenant with his death. And I believe that believing that Jesus did this so we could all be saved for eternity is the only way of getting to heaven. I believe it is as he said. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Again, human greed and worldly power justified by outdated religious texts. Some extremist christians resort to violence. KKK comes to mind. Again the "Except through me"- Very ambiguous, could mean many things. Such as living LIKE him, through is example. And as for muslims being bad- If they are wrong in you god's eyes, then they must be sinning and must be bad. I see no other reason to condemn them to hellfire unless they are truly bad, in your eyes. Okay, listen very, very, very closely: I will never, ever, EVER, condem ANYONE to hell. EVER.So where do Muslims go, in your mind?
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