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 Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:53 pm
I'm sorry, Terry who? You have to remember that I can't really follow literature these days cuz my monetary situation does not allow for the buying of books. If I was actually producing any books and selling them I would be able to but, that's not the case sadly enough...
I only know of one case where fantasy and Sci-Fi have blended rather well and it's Final Fantasy 7. It's one of my favorite games but not just because of the whole "blend" thing. wink
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:47 am
Terry BrooksHe's quite well known, but often more for the fact that a lot of his books are very 'samey'. I think his first Shannara trilogy was practically the same story told three times with a change of character names and the key magical item... I wouldn't say it's the sort of thing worth buying, but maybe worth getting out from a public library if you have one locally? I do enjoy FFVII, but while that has a strong fantasy slant with some basic technology mixed in, Terry Brooks latest stuff is based on the real world with increasing fantasy elements... even in his original fantasy trilogy, it was apparent that it was taking place on our own world in a much changed distant future; I rather like that way of going about it... it's probably how I'd model my own creation, if I were to put some effort into doing something.
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:07 pm
Of course he's well known... around his neighborhood! Ha-ha! rofl
Seriously now, I suppose I could go looking into a library but we don't have one in my city. I really don't have time to go looking up books.
So, that's how it is, eh? Sounds good at least. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:07 pm
I've read a few books by Terry Brooks. One was Magic Kingdom for sale, SOLD!, and the other was the Voyage of the Jerle Shannara trilogy. It went from fantasy in the first book, to sci-fi in the second and then back to fantasy in the third, which really aggravated me. I say, please do one or the other, if not attempt to combine them all the way through rather than chopping and changing here and there.
I also have a preference where the hardcore warrior woman remains as she is. In the Voyage of the Jerle Shannara, the female character I speak of (forgot her name but it began with an R I think) is adamant in her demeanour and doesn't want to settle down at all. She finds someone within the trilogy, and the next thing I know when the book that follows on from it comes out, it's evident she's had a child. I'm not saying that characters shouldn't have kids (and everyone here should know I don't want kids at all in my life because I've made it clear numerous times), but to me when it comes to female warriors, the idea just doesn't........sit right with me at all. Can't say why, that's just how feel. It makes me lose my faith in such characters I suppose. Again, I can't explain that.
Ok I was off-topic there, but nevermind.
There is now an area for sci-fi talk and combinations of sci-fi and fantasy.
I'm sure that if activity happens in there (heaven forbit anyone decides to post rolleyes ) I will be adding enforced emphasis depending on where the topics go.
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:00 am
Cool! I'm glad you were able to get into his books Mel. I find odd that he would just change the genre of his books like that. I can't imagine how aggravated you must have felt when you read all of them. Still, I happen to agree with you on the fact that if you're gonna mix and match Sci-Fi and fantasy, they should not be tossed around like a ball (if I'm making sense). I also agree with you that it seems weird to make a female warrior have kids and become all motherly and mushy like. On my fantasy story, I have two characters: A thief and an amazon woman who fall in love. Even though the amazon has kids, she doesn't really know how to be a mother and she never neglects her training just cuz of the kids. She trains even harder along with her kids and pushes them to be the best they can be. The kids at first can't put up with the tough training so the father has to sort of serve as a cushion so they won't feel like their mother doesn't love them or anything. It's not like he's gonna be pampering them but, he makes sure that she won't push them too hard either. What do you think Mel? This story of mine is mostly fantasy cuz it deals with things that don't usually exist in our world (and if they do, we don't know about them) like centaurs, magic and dragons. Though to be fair, magic is not exactly as mystical as you'd think. People think it's magic but it's mostly their own telekinetic abilities at work, they just don't know it yet.
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:41 pm
In a way, with Amazonians it could easily work because they're all meant to be tough women and still need to continue the tribe. It's just when you have a really tough female warrior who then suddenly becomes a loving mother where before she was "you want a piece of me? Come on then!". To have her then go from that to "my baby....ohh my baby" it doesn't fit right to me AT ALL.
Maybe this is another topic (not just fantasy of course) entirely.........?
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:08 pm
Quote: it doesn't fit right to me AT ALL I think that's something more personal to you Mel - I just see it as another aspect of their personality... It's like saying that if someone's skilled at fighting, they shouldn't also be able to write poetry or suchlike... I think it's just another side of them that's not so obvious. With regards to the Jerle Shannara trilogy (I haven't read that one), how did the transition to the 'sci-fi' take place? & what grade of sci-fi was it - I mean, more like Star Trek or FFVII or what?
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:36 am
Eoforgar Quote: it doesn't fit right to me AT ALL I think that's something more personal to you Mel - I just see it as another aspect of their personality... It's like saying that if someone's skilled at fighting, they shouldn't also be able to write poetry or suchlike... I think it's just another side of them that's not so obvious. With regards to the Jerle Shannara trilogy (I haven't read that one), how did the transition to the 'sci-fi' take place? & what grade of sci-fi was it - I mean, more like Star Trek or FFVII or what?
And if an author is going to have their hard-arse warrior woman become a mother at any point, they should hint towards that maternal nature somewhere, or hint that they're going to change somehow. In Jerle Shannara, the woman I meant is Rue Meridian.
In Zorro (the films with Antonio Banderas), it's clear that Elena (played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) is a strong woman capable of fighting and defending herself, but her personality is gentle and motherly as well.
I don't want to get into another fireball tennis match with you Eoforgar, but the way I see things there needs to be a visible transition somewhere.
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:43 am
DM_Melkhar Eoforgar Quote: it doesn't fit right to me AT ALL I think that's something more personal to you Mel - I just see it as another aspect of their personality... It's like saying that if someone's skilled at fighting, they shouldn't also be able to write poetry or suchlike... I think it's just another side of them that's not so obvious. With regards to the Jerle Shannara trilogy (I haven't read that one), how did the transition to the 'sci-fi' take place? & what grade of sci-fi was it - I mean, more like Star Trek or FFVII or what?
And if an author is going to have their hard-arse warrior woman become a mother at any point, they should hint towards that maternal nature somewhere, or hint that they're going to change somehow. In Jerle Shannara, the woman I meant is Rue Meridian.
In Zorro (the films with Antonio Banderas), it's clear that Elena (played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) is a strong woman capable of fighting and defending herself, but her personality is gentle and motherly as well.
I don't want to get into another fireball tennis match with you Eoforgar, but the way I see things there needs to be a visible transition somewhere.
Ok going off topic abit but it fits! Alice (resident evil films) she was a tough nut, well still is a tough nut, she was the kind of person that didn't take no for an answer at all, she went in all guns blazing showing people that woman can be just as good as men when it comes to fighting.
She also wanted to help children in the third one, so it still shows her hard side but also a side that she cares for others and wants to protect them. But it was a constant thing in the movies for her to show it.
In books, I dont like it when they change someone who is a hard nut to a mother in the space of two minutes like Mel said, she isn't the only one who thinks that.
Mel....doesn't like kids right? But I do, I want them at some point, but that doesn't have my own perception on life into what I think of a book does it?
So what you said really doesn't hold it's ground at all.
EDIT: I forgot to add, if they made Alice a mother people would of been like "What the hell just happened!!!????" So...people see that in books and think the same. It annoys me and it annoys so many others to the point where they dont want to read anymore.
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:02 am
Exactly right.
If you learn about who a character is throughout a book/film, and then it suddenly changes, it's just not them anymore. If there is a gradual change during the story, fairplay, and if it's there from the beginning, fairplay. For someone to be changed drastically from one thing to another ruins it. That doesn't just go for tough female characters, that does for any character.
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:40 pm
Folks, don't go accusing me of something I haven't said - I haven't read the trilogy in question, so my comments don't represent a counter-point specifically regarding Rue Meridian, just the principal in general of people having less-than-obvious personality traits.
As my previous comments in this thread indicate, my opinion of Terry Brooks writing ability isn't exactly high, so I can quite believe that he failed to create a smooth and sympathetic transition from warrior to mother & fantasy to 'sci-fi'.
But with regard to the mothering nature of the character, that's more of the author's failing to ease his readers into something new, whereas IRL that kind of thing is more commonplace - ever been speaking to someone you thought was similar to you & suddenly found that they have a completely opposite view on something to yourself? (ie. racist/homophobic attitude) Same deal.
Or, for an alternate example, there's plenty of people that perform dangerous/ violent jobs (ie police officers, soldiers) who leave their work at the door & enjoy a normal home family life...
With regard to the fantasy/sci-fi transition, that wouldn't have come as such a surprise to you if you'd read some of his previous books, which regularly allude to how the world they take place in is actually our own Earth in the far future & therefore ruins of the 'ancient' world (or 'the future', in relation to now) often pop up.
So, in sumary, if you want to bash Terry Brooks for having poor writing skills, I'm perfectly happy to say 'yeah'.
But saying that someone can't exhibit a previously unapparent attitude in a new situation is something I disagree with.
With regards to the personal feelings of the reader (in this case, Mel), I refer you to this quote:
"Words take on strange and wonderful powers when they are written down.
Context and intonation disappear, and the words sit in a void to be construed according to the mood, intelligence and socio-political leanings of the reader." - Siri Agrell
In other words, yes, the feelings of the reader are very relevant to how they interpret what they're reading.
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:42 am
Eoforgar Folks, don't go accusing me of something I haven't said - I haven't read the trilogy in question, so my comments don't represent a counter-point specifically regarding Rue Meridian, just the principal in general of people having less-than-obvious personality traits. As my previous comments in this thread indicate, my opinion of Terry Brooks writing ability isn't exactly high, so I can quite believe that he failed to create a smooth and sympathetic transition from warrior to mother & fantasy to 'sci-fi'. But with regard to the mothering nature of the character, that's more of the author's failing to ease his readers into something new, whereas IRL that kind of thing is more commonplace - ever been speaking to someone you thought was similar to you & suddenly found that they have a completely opposite view on something to yourself? (ie. racist/homophobic attitude) Same deal. Or, for an alternate example, there's plenty of people that perform dangerous/ violent jobs (ie police officers, soldiers) who leave their work at the door & enjoy a normal home family life... With regard to the fantasy/sci-fi transition, that wouldn't have come as such a surprise to you if you'd read some of his previous books, which regularly allude to how the world they take place in is actually our own Earth in the far future & therefore ruins of the 'ancient' world (or 'the future', in relation to now) often pop up. So, in sumary, if you want to bash Terry Brooks for having poor writing skills, I'm perfectly happy to say 'yeah'. But saying that someone can't exhibit a previously unapparent attitude in a new situation is something I disagree with. With regards to the personal feelings of the reader (in this case, Mel), I refer you to this quote: "Words take on strange and wonderful powers when they are written down. Context and intonation disappear, and the words sit in a void to be construed according to the mood, intelligence and socio-political leanings of the reader." - Siri Agrell In other words, yes, the feelings of the reader are very relevant to how they interpret what they're reading. I don't see why you have to keep on refering to Mel in your posts, she is not the only person who is posting in here after all. It doesn't matter how a reader thinks, becuause even though they get an idea in their heads on what a chatacter is like, take Drizzt, in my mind he was young looking, long sliver hair dark skin etc and I made up a voice for him aswell from my own imagination. Now he is what I would call a true warrior because he fights to protect things that are dear to him. But....if say they made another story with him being a father then I would find it weird just because he doesn't seem the child type. If it was said at the start that he was then it would be ok, but when you have someone who hates kids and everything like that and then in another breath has a kid and is like "No...I can't do whatever because of my child" It's rubbish.
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:18 am
~Nightwish Maiden~ I don't see why you have to keep on refering to Mel in your posts, she is not the only person who is posting in here after all. I refered to Mel because I was commenting on her opinion of this 'Rue Meridian' character & then responding to your assertion that the reader's (in this case, Mel's) feelings don't matter... As for what you're saying about someone that hates kids & then goes & has one being 'rubbish'; I actually know someone like that in real life who used to work with me about 5 years ago - she always used to say how she didn't get along with children & would never want to have one, but then she got pregnant & decided to keep it... I'm sure she would now do anything not to be parted from her child! The moral being, you can think whatever you like about a thing hypothetically, but until you're actually in the situation where you have to make the decision & deal with the consequences, you can't be sure that's how you'll actually behave.
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:22 pm
I know I'm not going to change anyway. It's a spiritual thing, don't ask.
Anyway, I'll side with Eoforgar here Mandy. Jodie was similar to the person he mentioned. Jodie wasn't anti-kids like I am, but she didn't feel she wanted to have any, then found out she was going to have one and decided to keep him.
On the contrary, Jodie's personality never changed. I could always see in her that she'd make a good mother regardless of the decision she made. Even if she'd decided not to have Isaak, she still has that side to her. I simply don't.
Now, putting those thoughts into characters becomes something different.
As you said, Eoforgar, it's up to the author to bring that transition in effectively. In my honest opinion, Terry Brooks didn't with Rue Meridian.
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:00 pm
DM_Melkhar In a way, with Amazonians it could easily work because they're all meant to be tough women and still need to continue the tribe. It's just when you have a really tough female warrior who then suddenly becomes a loving mother where before she was "you want a piece of me? Come on then!". To have her then go from that to "my baby....ohh my baby" it doesn't fit right to me AT ALL.
Maybe this is another topic (not just fantasy of course) entirely.........? I'm glad to know you don't see a problem with my character. And I agree with you that a character should not suddenly change unless something compelling forces the character to change like a mind control spell or alike. He-he, it does seem like this belongs on another kind of thread, doesn't it? Maybe at the writer's circle? neutral
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