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elvisnake

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:04 pm


Which were the only two movies that didn't show the Death Star in any way, shape or form?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:33 pm


Phantom Menance, and the Empire Strikes Back.

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stellarmagic

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:48 pm


Quote:
I know the first model appeared in ANH. They didn't hae those ships for more than several months BBY.


Wrong... The T-65A never saw combat with the Rebel Alliance, these were the prototype ships which were stolen by the rebels during Incom's nationalization by the Empire.

The first Production model fought at Yavin: The T-65A1 B or T-65B, you can tell its a B because the engine coloration is different from later models.

From Hoth onward the Alliance switched from the T-65A1 to the A2 model or T-65A2 C and kept using it for several years afterwards.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:07 pm


Unless you have a citable source, I doubt you can say that.

The first models were only stolen from Freisa less than half a year BBY. They saw action during the Battle of Turkana. The imperials were surprized at the new ship, which was partially the reason why the Rebels succceeded.

Nelowulf
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stellarmagic

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:19 am


My statement is a compilation of observation and research. The starfighters used at the battle of Yavin have a noticeably different appearance then those used at Hoth and Endor in the films. The most easily noticed difference is a difference in coloration of the engine exhaust.

Since most computer games that have starfighters with the red engine exhaust refer to the starfighter as the the T-65C and the Rogue squadron series of games refers to the purple exhaust starfighter as the T-65B (At least as far as I can remember) it's really quite easy to identify the two. As for the T-65A, I have never heard it referenced anywhere and since there is a B and C model I believe there was an A model and that it was almost certainly the prototype of the ships used in combat by the rebel alliance and never saw real combat.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:31 am


But it's not purple on exhaust, in any movie. (unless its on the DVD edition)

Every movie I've ever seen its either red, or slightly more orange/red. And would you please enlighten me on these "visible differences" which you speak between ANH and ESB? Show me the difference, if you will. In space combat, details are hard to ascertain, since most details are blurred anyway. And the only time I remember Xwings being stationary was either in hangar, on an ice cube, or on a swamp.


As for the prototype seeing combat, yes it did. Six months just, at least to me, does not seem possible to go from prototype to version a to version b, even on an accelerated schedule. Production quotas couldn't handle it. A ship needs time to develop, then build, then revise.

So while there may have been an "A" model developed, I don't think it really was built, and instead became a scrapped model, replaced by the "B". But in my opinion, a scrapped model is not something that is designated a primary. So the "B" model and successive productions move up to "A".

At least, that's how it works in R&D according to my uncle. If there's a reject, its not a vehicle that's considered a viable model type. it's catalogued for future refrence, but unless there are actual ships produced, it cannot be classified as a "true" designation.

Its like drawing a picture of a Ford GT, and saying its the next upgrade, and then Ford makes a different one, yet still credits you for making a design, even if it didn't implement itself.

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stellarmagic

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:18 am


Six months is easily enough time to go from a prototype to production model... Many aircraft have gone from drawing board to combat in that amount of time during a war development cycle, and the Rebels didn't even have to do that... they're just tweaking an already prototyped design.

As for the purple engine exhaust...
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Pretty ain't it.

The primary differences between the B and C model are pretty small. The R2 unit is further forward, the wing is jointed in the fuselage in a right angle instead of a curve. The inner workings of S-foils have removeable panels in the C model but are completely exposed in the B...

As for the prototyping schedule the X-wing development was allot longer coming than you known.

The T-65 Original prototype looks like a modified Z-95, whereas the T-65A is a further developed prototype with the same fuselage and armament as the B model but lacking the engines of its later cousin (Sort of like the differences between the YF-22, and YF-22A). The B Model is the actual production model, just like the YF-22A became the F-22 when production was authorized and a couple more changes were made.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:16 pm


looks red. at least on my screen, save for one of them. Its red, red, purple/neonish, red, red.

Still, 6 months is not enough time to go through two production models. One maybe, but not two. And plus, the Rebels didn't quite have the same materials and resources like the empire to build quite the same amount.

We had hangars devoted to new weaponry, new designs, and new inventions to isolate the research without disrupting primary output. The Rebels were just skirting from base to base. They had just established the base on Dantooine when the X-wing was stolen, and they packed up in about three months to relocate all their resources to Yavin IV just a month or two BBY.

I'm just trying to figure out where they held their production facilities with all the movement they did.

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elvisnake

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:20 pm


Yeah, only one is purple...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:33 pm


One definetely looks purple, and another has more of a fuschia hue. The others look red.

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stellarmagic

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:58 pm


The rebels used basically cottage industry... Lots of little factories scattered all over the place. It's the same strategy the Germans used late in World War II. There are stories of A-wings being built with wood framing in the cockpit and other eccentricities.

You think six months is a long time to go through two production models... Okay lets see.

Lets take a six month period in World War II. Say Spring of 1941 to Fall of 1941.

The Germans went through these 5 production designs for the Bf-109 in that period.

Bf-109F1
Bf-109F2
Bf-109F2/T
Bf-109F3
Bf-109F4

So going from a prototype to a full production model wouldn't be that impressive in that time frame. Especially when you consider the A model was just another prototype, it was only the B model that went into production and was the first production model.

As to the redness of the engines, you gusy have to check your gamma correction settings on your machine. They all look purple to me, or at the least violet. None of them are the crimson red of a C model's exhaust.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:32 pm


Its the same on my television. Perhaps you're the one with a poor gamma? I mean, if i tweek the color, and put it in photoshop, I too can make them purple. But under standard colors, my avatar hair is deep red, and my kilt is not purple either. The Gaia online logo isn't violet, either.
And last time I heard, Violet and Purple are the same color, just a different name.

And 1941 ain't really exactly the low tide of german development. Heck, that's when hitler was funding massive amounts of resources into new designs that could tackle the enemy.

Its like saying the shipyards at Kuat could produce several variants of the TIE all fully functional. Sure, with the amounts of resources and time spent, it is possible. But what is put forward elsewhere is the real key.


I suggest, however, we get back to the point of the thread. Trivia, the asking of questions based on facts, the inquiry into knowledge of other people upon a certain subject. This really isn't the thread to discuss why you believe my monitor is broken, or how fast anything can be developed no matter the amount of resources versus the time spent.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:51 am


What was the rather earthly name of Red Leader in ANH?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:16 am


Garvin. Can't remember his first.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:21 am


Close.

Garvin Dreis, or as he was called in the novelization, Dave. 3nodding
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The Second Imperium

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