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yes, it will trigger twice

Because when creatures go the graveyard, they 'see themselves' going tot he graveyard, and because they are all going at the same time, it sees them as well and triggers. It's exactly like ninja of the pale curtain. If you wrath with that on the board, it removes all creatures from the game, or if you just kill it, it removes itself from the game.

Question:

Sammy has a Simic Sky Swallower and a Morphling in play. Tyler casts Enduring Ideal. It resolves and Tyler gets a Persuasion. Which if any creature can Tyler place the aura on?

Enduring Ideal was a fun deck to play in Standard. The deck had lots of answers.

I had this one game against a Form of the Dragon deck. He plays an Ivory Mask turn 4 and Form of the Dragon Turn 7. Since nothing else was in play, I stole the Ivory Mask with Confiscate and he killed himself.

this turned out to be what i thought it was. The scry is an effect that happens on resolution just like the rest of the spell (and I assume, like all other parts of a spell's effects, resolves in the order it is placed on the card)



so the spell fizzles and no scry

No, although he will come into play with 6 counters if doubling season is in play before hand.

It's due to the wording of "if an effect would put a counter on". When you activate his first ability, the cost of the effect is what is putting the counters on, so no doubling there. However, it is a static effect within the rules of the planeswalkers that they get a certain number of counters put on them when they come into play (or as they come into play, I'm not sure, but either way it is still an effect) and that will be doubled.

sorry, I meant 'no, the counters will not double'

Garruk would only get 1 counter

Wait...what? Even if it doubled both the counters when it came into play and the counter for the ability that's only (3 for coming into play) doubled to 6 and (1 for the ability) doubled to 2, which is 8. How did you get 10?

But I'm arguing that he would end up with 7 counters. Effects are caused by abilities and spells when they resolve as intended (abilities and spells 'effect' things and the game state, hence the interchangeability in wordings. Effect is simply a way of covering both bases of spell and ability in the same sweep without having to mention both).

To my knowledge and that of most others I count as having a deep knowledge of the game; Costs are not effects, they are costs. You pay something to make and ability/spell (effect) happen. Costs don't even use the stack because they don't have to resolve and why they can't be responded to.

So I'm saying that the come into play static ability rule about planeswalker's loyalty counters is doubled by Doubling Season as it is an ability. Giving him 6 loyalty to start. However, the adding or removing of counters from a planeswalker is a payment for the ability, not part of the ability. Thus, it is not doubled, giving 1 counter and leaving Garruk with 7 counters.

I think you're still missing exactly what I'm arguing here; I'm not arguing that abilities are effects. It's that effects are part of an ability or spell, the part that actually does something to the games state is the effect when it happens, I understand this. The cost is not part of the effect.'

Here:

This is the standard set up on activated abilities
Entire ability in brackets
{
Cost : Effect
}

Am I right?

Let's see it in a few examples

{ (Cost : Effect)
Sacrifice Sakura Tribe Elder : Search your library for a basic land and put it into plan tapped, shuffle your library.
}

{ (Cost : Effect)
Tap Llanowar Elves : Add one Green Mana yo your Mana Pool.
}

Or, a spell even (Boomerang in this case)
{ (Cost : Effect)
Use two blue mana from your mana pool : Return target creature to its owner's hand
}

Now simply replace those with the specific instance in question -
{
Put a loyalty counter on Garruk : Untap two lands
}

clearly, the adding the counter (or taking one off in other instances) is not part of the effect, it is the cost of making the effect happen. The same as with other creature abilities that require them to add a counter of some sort to do something. All things in magic work that way (Cost : Effect)