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Gaia's world martial artist tournament that pits the best fighters against one another for the title of Gaia's Best! 

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Fierach

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:23 am


Sigil Warden
Wow this thread got homosexual super fast.

EDIT: As a side note, its 5 posts in and Fierach has already defied physics and the limits of human agility. /popcorn


Exhibit A: Sore loser.

Mad salty.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:13 am


Uh oh, Sigil. You might want to take him to the Salty Suite and do a salty runback on him for that insult.

Vintrict
Captain

Omnipresent Poster


count_zantara

Familiar Lunatic

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:16 am


Grim Skies
count_zantara

Might have worked. Personally I would have just beat his head in with the pommel of your sword as he was focused so intensely on that wrist of yours.

Once you realize that as a swordsman, you have to stay within a per-determined range of your opponent and not let them get closer than your minimum range for a grapple or step out of the maximum range of a lunge, you'll go far I think.

Never stop your feet and always be circling.

Take a hint from a shark.

If you stop, your dead.


Blue = Yes.

Red = Not quite.

For a number of reasons.

1.) Staying at the ideal striking range is impractical and leads to some bad RP, especially if you have a swordy facing an unarmed opponent.

2.) Real world disciplines of swordsmanship cover more than proper striking technique and footwork, but also all kinds of techniques to handle being out of the sword user's comfort zone; see slicing vs. cutting, binding and winding, half-swording, grappling (involving the sword), pommel/butt strikes (as you noted) and hammer blows.

It's completely natural for an unarmed opponent--a seasoned fighter--to go for the wrist/arms of a swordsman with proper timing. To simply deny the attempt, while technically logical, doesn't really do anything for the fight.

I'd rather say "lol oh you want to hold hands, do you? you think that's going to stop me? hahaha"

And even better, it would not require being lethal to be dominant, so even then the opponent wouldn't feel the need to dodge everything as they would with a true strike from optimal range.

I really want to use this new swordy concept for exactly that reason. Too busy/lazy to finish it up in a timely fashion, though.


*raises eyebrow*

It's only bad roleplaying if you can't make it interesting. Distance between you and your opponent doesn't make something "bad" or "good" or even "impractical".

Your ability as a roleplayer deals with all of that.

Lets use my own character as an example. He's used everything from a gladius/shield combo to matched cutlasses to paired daggers to a really out there rapier that could basically do what Sigil Warden's axes could do.... yet quite a bit more limited.

He does not have all the knowledge of grapples, pins, punches, etc.... not because I can't go and look it up and give it to Zantara but because it's just not how my character is like, mentally at least.

The very act of getting within grapple range (not on his terms) is in no small way a terror to him. It's a built in flaw that I've always enjoyed.

I'm not saying that all that a swordsman should do is dodge all grapple attempts. I'm saying that as a intermediate swordsman, your number one focus is keeping on the pressure at all times.

You want to keep them in that specific range because that is where you can do the most damage and put your skills to work. Is there a possibility that your roleplay will be nothing more than the swordsman constantly backing up?

If your not that comfortable with your style yet, yes.

Or going up against Tres/Feirach/Heita/Lucid or any of the other dozen or so grapplers I could name off the top of my head who will go straight for the throat and will take a small or even large wound so they can pull off some epic move.

If your going up against any of them, your mainly going to have to fall back on A)Waiting for that one moment where they ******** themselves up and you can force them to fall on your blade or B)use an ability that doesn't have to do with your swordsmanship. Yes, there are other ways of dealing with them but frankly....I'd just be asking to get my a** handed to me in such a situation.

*Thinks on it for a moment*

s**t...I lost my train of thought there for a second.

In short, you make the roleplay what you will. I think my advice on otimal ranges was correct, as long as you can roleplay it interestingly enough. At least at first. Do that for a while, get into the understanding of what people will and won't let you get away with and only THEN, say ******** the range and do what you want with florishes etc... but that range is always going to be there.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:30 am


Count Zantara


Yeah I think I see what you are saying.

Tres uses zoning, or tries to gain positional advantages during the fight. He tries to achieve and maintain different ranges depending on his strategy. Against certain fighters Tres is gonna go into the grappling range and he will try to get in those epic takedowns. Though other fighters Tres likes to outbox and outstrike, and a lot of that is...like a sword fighter...maintaining a positional advantage.

So there isn't anything wrong with it. Legit tactics can be entertaining in the same way that they can be entertaining in any other medium. I think the problem lies when you have your opponent dead to rights and it seems like nothing they do is gonna make a difference against your strategy...

Then it just doesn't make for a good fight.

Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian


Fierach

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:34 am


I'm not even a grappler.

James leans toward striking and impact throws, and well as body checks, shoulder checks, hip checks of all kinds.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:56 am


I apologize Feirach for lumping you in with the rest. I was mainly just using you as an example of what a close-range fighter really is all about.

*tips his hat in apology*

But I think I called it on the rest with how your mainly up close and personal with your fighting abilities.

*thinks about what Tres had to say*

You have a point... and that's not even getting into tactics, that's falling back on bad roleplaying. If you can role with a dodge and make it come out to your advantage in a interesting way, then your good. But when your brain or skill fails you so all that it comes out to is a way for you to reset the fight back to status quo, then people will have issues.

I'm not a "fighter" in any sense of the word.

It's never been my strong suit at least in a solo one-on-one fight. Put me into a group fight and I'm one hell of a support character.

That's where I shine. It's not bad, it's not good...it's just how I roleplay.

*shrugs slightly*

Would like to someday get into these more personal tournaments, but my...ideals and brain work a bit differently that most. I can sit here all ******** day and call a fight in what moves in what timeframes would look and roll better and nine times out of ten, I'll be right.

Just doing it for myself is an issue that I'm going to have to work on.

count_zantara

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Scalar Warfare

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:11 am


Fierach
Sigil Warden
Wow this thread got homosexual super fast.

EDIT: As a side note, its 5 posts in and Fierach has already defied physics and the limits of human agility. /popcorn


Exhibit A: Sore loser.

Mad salty.


Nah, just feel sorry for my spirit brother as he suffers.

@Tres/Darth - I got slammed for violation of profile because apparently a forcefield doesn't repulse contact (?) which, alone, would have tied me across the board (actually, technically I would have been winning 2/3), but I also got punished for actually accepting damage, got yelled at for using the dumpster shield (Zantara thought it was out of character and Vin claimed I should have been thrown back and the thing disintegrated even though I absorbed it through two separate shields), you know, god forbid I use the stage in a creative manner, the shock! and then to top it off I got docked in my roleplaying because my sadistic, murder-happy character was going KILL MAIM DESTROY for a big part of the fight, instead of... I guess having elaborate flashbacks to her days as a call-girl in Icecrown. Oh and then, for good measure, Vin threw in a minus one in conciseness without explanation, because apparently clarity and characterization is secondary to "I punch it in the d**k", even though I got penalized for doing that.

At the end of the day, I can't even really get myself worked up about it, just sarcastic. I knew the fight was lost when the Chains was smacked down, because that was the only time I might have been able to hit my space-time bending opponent.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:38 am


Sigil Warden
I guess having elaborate flashbacks to her days as a call-girl in Icecrown.

Not really, but it would have been hilarious. Like you could have wrote a one page interaction of the Lich King calling your character to his chambers for some "examination." That would have at least kept me entertained. lol

Vintrict
Captain

Omnipresent Poster


count_zantara

Familiar Lunatic

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:39 am


Sigil Warden

Nah, just feel sorry for my spirit brother as he suffers.

@Tres/Darth - I got slammed for violation of profile because apparently a forcefield doesn't repulse contact (?) which, alone, would have tied me across the board (actually, technically I would have been winning 2/3), but I also got punished for actually accepting damage, got yelled at for using the dumpster shield (Zantara thought it was out of character and Vin claimed I should have been thrown back and the thing disintegrated even though I absorbed it through two separate shields), you know, god forbid I use the stage in a creative manner, the shock! and then to top it off I got docked in my roleplaying because my sadistic, murder-happy character was going KILL MAIM DESTROY for a big part of the fight, instead of... I guess having elaborate flashbacks to her days as a call-girl in Icecrown. Oh and then, for good measure, Vin threw in a minus one in conciseness without explanation, because apparently clarity and characterization is secondary to "I punch it in the d**k", even though I got penalized for doing that.

At the end of the day, I can't even really get myself worked up about it, just sarcastic. I knew the fight was lost when the Chains was smacked down, because that was the only time I might have been able to hit my space-time bending opponent.


*thinks about it*

I don't know if I used it being Out of Character because that isn't quite exactly what it was.... even if it is close to that. Same ball park.

What I was trying to say ( if I didn't make it come across as such I apologize) was that it just seemed to be a very odd decision. You make a shield, giving Feirach enough time to power up an attack to break said shield.

The punch by him, the throw by you, the landing....all of it was so damn perfectly coreographed and written between the two, for a good while there, I wondered if the two of you had just set that up so you could strut your stuff a bit.

As to the Profile Violation.... yeah, I'm going to have to admit, I'm not sure what that was about. I think what Vintrict was getting at was that as written, your forcefield follows the contores of your body correct?

If this is so, then obviously in certain places, there would be angles however minute they may be, especially on the face and over the armor in general.

And if there are angles, then there are places for Feirach to get a grip.

It wasn't so much replusing contact as much as saying it was "too slippery" for him to get a hold on in any fashion.

At least as I read the Profile Violation notification that was put out.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:41 am


From the Desk of Count Zantara

A study in thrown weapons: Why don't we see throwing stars anymore?


As I've been on Gaia a good many years, I've seen trends come and go in the fighting arenas. From overpowered behemoths to “normal” humans and everything in between. From days where the Sword is King to where you couldn't find anything but grapplers.

But what has kind of bugged me as of late is that people seem to have gone all “I've got a dagger and I'm going to throw it.” which is just..odd to me. With most thrown weapons like axes, daggers and other blades, you have a limited amount of space that the weapon is actually going to do any damage. Lets say 1/6th of the entire trip from your hand to the target is going to be aligned right in rotation that it will actually stick in with another 1/6th of the rotation will cause a even more minor wound as it doesn't give a clean hit with the blade at the correct angle, either too early or too late in the rotation.

So two thirds of your throw is going to be left up to just leaving a bruise on your opponent if they step into or back of your target position.

Even more so if they can see the length of the blade and quickly do the calculations of distance, and how much the weapon might weigh because you can approxomently gauge exactly how many times such a weapon will rotate with just these simple numbers. Because super-human stength really doesn't come into the picture when dealing with thrown bladed weapons... at least not enough to ******** the math up too horribly. Why people don't use this to their advantage especially seeing as very few people who use such weapons actually are slick enough to “hide” their throw, I know not.

People seem to have forgotten the truly interesting throwing weapons over the years that didn't have this glaring fault.

The chakrams. The throwing stars. And so forth.


What's up with that?

Just a thought of the day, I suppose.

count_zantara

Familiar Lunatic


Scalar Warfare

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:43 am


You would be right Zan, were it not for the fact that friction does not apply to a repulsive surface. You know, like a Mag-Lev train? It's slippery because there is no actual surface to hold onto, his grip is simply not allowed to make contact with anything.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:49 am


As a sidenote on thrown weapons, it's pointless to bring ranged weapons in a roleplay fight. Unless your opponent is really nice, they are just going to dodge or deflect them, regardless of what or how many of them you are throwing/firing. Don't even bother. Sword is king.

Scalar Warfare

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Vintrict
Captain

Omnipresent Poster

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:50 am


Ha, say that to my tomb raiding archer. The moment I enter her into a contest where bows are allowed, she'll hit. I guarantee it.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:53 am


Sigil Warden


@Tres/Darth - I got slammed for violation of profile because apparently a forcefield doesn't repulse contact (?) which, alone, would have tied me across the board (actually, technically I would have been winning 2/3), but I also got punished for actually accepting damage, got yelled at for using the dumpster shield (Zantara thought it was out of character and Vin claimed I should have been thrown back and the thing disintegrated even though I absorbed it through two separate shields), you know, god forbid I use the stage in a creative manner, the shock! and then to top it off I got docked in my roleplaying because my sadistic, murder-happy character was going KILL MAIM DESTROY for a big part of the fight, instead of... I guess having elaborate flashbacks to her days as a call-girl in Icecrown. Oh and then, for good measure, Vin threw in a minus one in conciseness without explanation, because apparently clarity and characterization is secondary to "I punch it in the d**k", even though I got penalized for doing that.

At the end of the day, I can't even really get myself worked up about it, just sarcastic. I knew the fight was lost when the Chains was smacked down, because that was the only time I might have been able to hit my space-time bending opponent.


I feel your pain Sigil-Warden.

Vintrict is an idiot. A lot of what you were docked on was his fault.

He docked you for playing the character he accepted.
He docked you for using the stage that he provided.
He docked you merely on a whim for no particular reason.

Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian


Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:55 am


count_zantara
From the Desk of Count Zantara

A study in thrown weapons: Why don't we see throwing stars anymore?


As I've been on Gaia a good many years, I've seen trends come and go in the fighting arenas. From overpowered behemoths to “normal” humans and everything in between. From days where the Sword is King to where you couldn't find anything but grapplers.

But what has kind of bugged me as of late is that people seem to have gone all “I've got a dagger and I'm going to throw it.” which is just..odd to me. With most thrown weapons like axes, daggers and other blades, you have a limited amount of space that the weapon is actually going to do any damage. Lets say 1/6th of the entire trip from your hand to the target is going to be aligned right in rotation that it will actually stick in with another 1/6th of the rotation will cause a even more minor wound as it doesn't give a clean hit with the blade at the correct angle, either too early or too late in the rotation.

So two thirds of your throw is going to be left up to just leaving a bruise on your opponent if they step into or back of your target position.

Even more so if they can see the length of the blade and quickly do the calculations of distance, and how much the weapon might weigh because you can approxomently gauge exactly how many times such a weapon will rotate with just these simple numbers. Because super-human stength really doesn't come into the picture when dealing with thrown bladed weapons... at least not enough to ******** the math up too horribly. Why people don't use this to their advantage especially seeing as very few people who use such weapons actually are slick enough to “hide” their throw, I know not.

People seem to have forgotten the truly interesting throwing weapons over the years that didn't have this glaring fault.

The chakrams. The throwing stars. And so forth.


What's up with that?

Just a thought of the day, I suppose.


A physical ability Tres uses a lot.

Throw Anything

Tres never liked the idea of using a firearm as he felt that not enough of his body was doing the work of attacking with the weapon in order to feel confident or even rewarded by using it. To fill the void of long range attacks, Tres studied the art of throwing objects. Tres's ability to aim is increased due to his developed senses and body control. Tres can accurately utilize any throwing weapon within its maximum effective range, dependent upon the weight and design of the weapon.
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