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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:37 am
php_geek GAYS were not created by GOD!.....only MALE and FEMALES are......
im sorry, but that's true, my father is a pastor, and I asked this a number of times....
ONLY two genders were created by GOD, anything outside that is created by the wide awareness of this world, but i dont think, Gays can be gays forever...
you'll change.... God created two genders, true, but he did not intend for them to have sex at all in the first place. Sex drive was a result of the fall. Genesis 1:18-25 18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [h] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [j] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [k] '
for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.The first bolded portion shows us that God first looked among the animals for a companion for Adam. However, he clearly condemns those who sleep with animals repeatedly throughout the text of the bible. This would imply that God did not want Adam sleeping with anyone at first. The second bolded shows that neither Adam nor his wife were ashamed of being naked, a sign that there was as of that time no nudity taboo, as there is later in the Old Testament. Later in the Old testament, God supports the nudity taboo as a way of keeping sex sacred, but here he just doesn't care. This shows that neither Adam nor his wife Eve wanted or even knew what sex was. How does it feel knowing that your attraction to the opposite gender is born out of sin? =D Yeah, I just couldn't resist that. Second, God making two genders works from an evolutionary perspective too. One gender cannot reproduce, meaning the species would die out. If homosexuality was such a recessive trait as it is today, this means that while it would be present in the Old Testament tribes, without taking away the reproductive power of said tribes. Nowadays, the earth is completely full. There is no need to reproduce, and as such, there should be no taboo against choosing not to. Third, your father is not right by way of being a pastor. That's an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy.
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:53 am
Seraph68 kitoko minh Does the Bible ever say it is bad to be attracted to someone of the same gender? No! It says it is bad to have sex with them! Really! Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Maybe you are still not convinced. So you still want to say it is the act, not the desire, that is a sin. Desire cannot be truly suppressed, and to attempt so has been proved to create extraordinary stress and often severe depression. Therefore, as basic sexual desire is not a choice it is not a sin. Let me put it simply. Looking at porn is a sin. You are imagining yourself having sex with someone. Being attracted to someone sexually is not a sin, as long as you are not actively imagining sex with them. Quote: Matthew 5:21-22 & 27-28 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder (action), ... But I tell you that anyone who is angry (desire) with his brother will be subject to judgment... "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'(action) But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully(desire) has already committed adultery with her in his heart. is sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex. So there it is, Homosexuality is a sin. Period. End Quotes. Galatians 5:2-6 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. We are saved through Jesus Christ, regardless of the old testament laws. Colossians 2:13-17 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[a] God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[c]
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.The old testament was abolished, its covenant with humanity being outdated in the light of Christ's extreme love for us. Quote: Now what, You (anyone struggling) are still feeling these urges that you know are sinful and they aren't going away. First, lay your sins down at the cross, pray for forgiveness and repent from your sins. It will not be an "light switch" (instantly on or off) experience, you will fight with your sins for as long as God wills it, but we do not fight for victory over the sin but in obedience to God's commandments. Tried that. Got an answer. It was "Nope." Quote: If you Love God, your desire it to obey, not find loopholes so you can hold on to your sins but still be a "good person." (this desire is also not "light switch", you will need to work on it and grow in it.) It will not be easy, a battle maybe won, but the campaign is still going, your sins will try to come back and hurt you again, but all you can do is keep fighting it with the strength of the the Holy Spirit given to all who believe. That paragraph above is not limited to Homosexuality, or just sexual sins, but all sins. Put your sin in there, Mine is Lust, I am constantly having to resist letting my eyes and mind wander. I am not perfect, I have crashed and burned several times in the past year alone. I am not saying this just to say that I am a sinner like you, but that I hold myself to the same standard that I am asking you to hold yourself to. As I fight my lust, you fight yours. In fact, I want you all to fight it harder then I have. It also helps to have someone to be accountable to, someone to watch your back and help you when you are struggling. True. Nearly everyone lusts. I also have problems with lying to get out of trouble. Quote: To answer the subject, Is there such thing as a Gay Christian? Yes, homosexual in your old self, Christian in the new self. Ephesian 4:22-24 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. God Bless I am both homosexual and Christian. I am secure in the fact the Jesus loves me, and there is nothing you can say that will make me feel otherwise. Another note: For the last week or two, I haven't been discussing this much. I'm feeling like people completely ignore my posts and go on talking about how homosexuality is a mortal sin, etc., except to throw the occasional flame my way. And just now, as I was typing this up, I finally felt RIGHT again. I'm happy to assert my faith in Jesus's love and teachings, and I hope that all of you will support that. Thank you.
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:49 pm
Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori The first bolded portion shows us that God first looked among the animals for a companion for Adam. However, he clearly condemns those who sleep with animals repeatedly throughout the text of the bible. This would imply that God did not want Adam sleeping with anyone at first. The second bolded shows that neither Adam nor his wife were ashamed of being naked, a sign that there was as of that time no nudity taboo, as there is later in the Old Testament. Later in the Old testament, God supports the nudity taboo as a way of keeping sex sacred, but here he just doesn't care. This shows that neither Adam nor his wife Eve wanted or even knew what sex was. So far, nothing supports your theory in the text. The reason why both Adam and Eve didn't feel no shame about their nudity because they were not fallen creatures. Claiming that God didn't want Adam to have sex in the first place is simply foolish. Verse 24 and 28 supports that God did intended for them to have sex. Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori If homosexuality was such a recessive trait as it is today, this means that while it would be present in the Old Testament tribes, without taking away the reproductive power of said tribes. Nowadays, the earth is completely full. There is no need to reproduce, and as such, there should be no taboo against choosing not to. oh come on! This is liberal propaganda. Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori The old testament was abolished, its covenant with humanity being outdated in the light of Christ's extreme love for us. Jesus himself said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17)
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:22 pm
Go talk to Ananel. He's the one who has business with you. Reformed Baptist Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori The first bolded portion shows us that God first looked among the animals for a companion for Adam. However, he clearly condemns those who sleep with animals repeatedly throughout the text of the bible. This would imply that God did not want Adam sleeping with anyone at first. The second bolded shows that neither Adam nor his wife were ashamed of being naked, a sign that there was as of that time no nudity taboo, as there is later in the Old Testament. Later in the Old testament, God supports the nudity taboo as a way of keeping sex sacred, but here he just doesn't care. This shows that neither Adam nor his wife Eve wanted or even knew what sex was. So far, nothing supports your theory in the text. The reason why both Adam and Eve didn't feel no shame about their nudity because they were not fallen creatures. Claiming that God didn't want Adam to have sex in the first place is simply foolish. Verse 24 and 28 supports that God did intended for them to have sex. Verse 24 only shows an emotional attachment, not a sexual attachment. As for verse 28, there isn't one, at least as far as biblegateway.com knows. (It's what I use when I don't have access to a bible.) Quote: Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori If homosexuality was such a recessive trait as it is today, this means that while it would be present in the Old Testament tribes, without taking away the reproductive power of said tribes. Nowadays, the earth is completely full. There is no need to reproduce, and as such, there should be no taboo against choosing not to. oh come on! This is liberal propaganda. I'm sorry, but you can't discredit something by calling it liberal propaganda. `-` Quote: Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori The old testament was abolished, its covenant with humanity being outdated in the light of Christ's extreme love for us. Jesus himself said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) So sorry, I chose the wrong word. Could you refute the actual passage, rather than my erroneous analysis?
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:31 pm
Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Go talk to Ananel. He's the one who has business with you. Why? Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Verse 24 only shows an emotional attachment, not a sexual attachment. As for verse 28, there isn't one, at least as far as biblegateway.com knows. (It's what I use when I don't have access to a bible.) Emotional attachment? Where did you get that idea from? "they shall be one flesh" that is, "they two", the man and his wife, as it is supplied and interpreted by Christ, Matthew 19:5 and so here in the Targum of Jonathan, and in the Septuagint and Samaritan versions: the union between them is so close, as if they were but one person, one soul, one body; and which is to be observed against polygamy, unlawful divorces, and all uncleanness, fornication, and adultery: only one man and one woman, being joined in lawful wedlock, have a right of copulation with each other, in order to produce a legitimate offspring, partaking of the same one flesh, as children do of their parents, without being able to distinguish the flesh of the one from the other. - Theologian, John GillVerse 28. Link.Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori I'm sorry, but you can't discredit something by calling it liberal propaganda. `-` Its not hard to discredit a theory when doesn't present creditable facts. Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori So sorry, I chose the wrong word. Could you refute the actual passage, rather than my erroneous analysis? Which passage?
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:48 pm
Reformed Baptist Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Go talk to Ananel. He's the one who has business with you. Why? Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Verse 24 only shows an emotional attachment, not a sexual attachment. As for verse 28, there isn't one, at least as far as biblegateway.com knows. (It's what I use when I don't have access to a bible.) Emotional attachment? Where did you get that idea from? "they shall be one flesh" that is, "they two", the man and his wife, as it is supplied and interpreted by Christ, Matthew 19:5 and so here in the Targum of Jonathan, and in the Septuagint and Samaritan versions: the union between them is so close, as if they were but one person, one soul, one body; and which is to be observed against polygamy, unlawful divorces, and all uncleanness, fornication, and adultery: only one man and one woman, being joined in lawful wedlock, have a right of copulation with each other, in order to produce a legitimate offspring, partaking of the same one flesh, as children do of their parents, without being able to distinguish the flesh of the one from the other. - Theologian, John GillWhy, you're absolutely right. "They shall be one flesh" OBVIOUSLY must be taken literally, because in the old testament, there was nothing even remotely resembling emotional attachment. Besides, the bible HAS to be taken literally, otherwise it makes no sense whatsoev- OH WAIT. neutral Different chapter. Say which chapter next time. Anyways, there's a funny thing here. In Genesis 1, God made man on the sixth day; After light, sky, land, plants, birds and animals. Man was created in order to rule over all these, and was blessed by God to rule over the earth. And then God saw that it was good, etc. Then we have the second chapter of Genesis. Genesis 2:4-6 4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [c] and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [d] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- the LORD God formed the man (The Hebrew for man (adam) sounds like and may be related to the Hebrew for ground (adamah) it is also the name Adam (see Gen. 2:20)) from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Here, Adam is made on the third day; after the earth, sky and land, but before the plants, birds and animals. Adam was then placed into a special garden God had formed to the east, Eden, where his purpose was to live in and take care of the Garden. The fact that man was created long after Adam shows that the blessing God gave was not intended for Adam after all. It was intended for this other human creation, which is further supported by the existence of the land of Nod (Wanderers), and the existence of Cain's wife in Genesis 4, as well as the fact that he was building a city. (Not for plants, most likely.) Quote: Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori I'm sorry, but you can't discredit something by calling it liberal propaganda. `-` Its not hard to discredit a theory when doesn't present creditable facts. Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori So sorry, I chose the wrong word. Could you refute the actual passage, rather than my erroneous analysis? Which passage? Colossians 2:13-17. That one. Don't give me bullshit about ceremonial laws either. There is no support in the text for that.
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:20 pm
Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Colossians 2:13-17. That one. Don't give me bullshit about ceremonial laws either. There is no support in the text for that. Romans 6:15-16 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? So, who are you a slave to? God or Homosexuality? Don't give me any crap about "it's not sin" when it is described in both old and new testaments as sin. There is no try, do or do not. Like I was saying, it was not a "try to stop and if it's God's will, you will stop." But I was saying to keep fighting, there are times that you will fail but you continue on with the fight. I have not had a successful fight against my lust, but I have not given up on it either. For more then six years I have fought this spiritual war within me, and I will probably be fighting it for the rest of my life. Fight in obedience of our LORD, not for personal gain, not for "victory over sin." Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori God created two genders, true, but he did not intend for them to have sex at all in the first place. Sex drive was a result of the fall. Both accounts of woman's creations include some allusion to sex, "be fruitful and multiply" and "be 'united' and they will become one flesh" were told before the curse of sin was made.
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:32 pm
Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori Different chapter. Say which chapter next time. Oops.. I didn't realize you were quoting Chapter 2. I may have to get back to you on this argument. Feeling a bit lazy today… :sigh: Colossians 2:13-17 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori That one. Don't give me bull**** about ceremonial laws either. There is no support in the text for that. Why did Christ really come? Was it to remove the authority of the Law or did Christ come to fulfill what the law demands? Paul said in Romans 7:7, "Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin." We Christians need the law to acknowledge what is sin. So then, do we Christians need to fulfill what the law demands? No, for Christ fulfilled the demands of the law which are the "Ceremonial Laws." That's why Paul said, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." The moral aspect of the Law (for example; the Ten Commandments and etc.) still has authority or instruction in the believer's life. So that we can walk in the light (Romans 2:18-19) and please are Father in Heaven. Paul said in Romans 3:31, "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." Paul himself has quoted the Law many times and states women are to be in submission "as the Law says." James quotes the law of love (2:8 from Lev 19:18 ) or condemns partiality, adultery, murder, and slander as contrary to the law (2:9, 11; 4:11), and when Peter quotes Leviticus, "Be holy, because I am holy" (1 Peter 1:16; from Lev 19:2), the implication is that the law, or at least part of it, remains authoritative. There are Jews who believed that righteousness comes through the Law. Its true that the Law is righteous but it does not give righteousness. As Jesus said to the Jews, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (John 5:39-40) We believers are righteous by the blood of Jesus Christ and by the mercy from our Father. Romans 3:21-22 The righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:26 pm
php_geek GAYS were not created by GOD!.....only MALE and FEMALES are......
im sorry, but that's true, my father is a pastor, and I asked this a number of times....
ONLY two genders were created by GOD, anything outside that is created by the wide awareness of this world, but i dont think, Gays can be gays forever...
you'll change.... So homosexuals aren't male or female? What are they, then? Hermaphrodites? Angrogynes? confused
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:50 pm
We were taught to love each other, and the Lord will love you regardless. It's not right to discriminate because of sexual preference, and the Lord loves all of his children. As long as you have faith.
But hey, if you can't be gay then I want slaves.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:37 pm
Hey, have you guys ever read the bible? But you guys are hypocrites! You dont even know what the Bible says! Homosexuality is a sin.
1 Corinthians 6:9, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, norhomosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
This is the unrighteousness of God in Romans 1:18-32. Have you guys ever read this? This is consistant throughout scripture. Read the Word of God...
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Well there you go. A small bible study. If you have any questions, just ask! And most importantly ask Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins, you are not saved if you are a homosexual and this is why. You have not truly repented of your sins. If you have stumbled back into homosexuality, then you need to repent again and turn from your sins, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Here is some encouragement: Ephesians 4:17-24 says,
"This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [fn4] the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."
Galatians 5:16-26 tells us how we ought to walk as christians. Our walk means how we ought to live our lives.
"16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."
Hey, this is the best part about Jesus, even though your in your sins, if you confess and seriously repent of your sins, meaning to turn from them and not come back, the Lord is just and will forgive you.
1 John 1:9,10
"9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Your still in your sins if your a homosexual and you need to repent. It would be the same scenario if it was someone who was an alcoholic, drug abuser, adulterer, murder, liar, a disobedient one. Homosexuality is simply unrighteousness of God. It has nothing to do with Him. I tell you this is the love of Christ.
Please repent and I hope the light of God will truly shine upon your life, God bless.
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:36 pm
CrazyKat685 Hey, have you guys ever read the bible? But you guys are hypocrites! You dont even know what the Bible says! Homosexuality is a sin.Have you read through my replies? Every verse you post has already been refuted. Quote: 1 Corinthians 6:9, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." A Letter To Louise - www.godmademegay.com I Corinthians 6:9 King James Version: 9...Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [arsenokoitai], 10 Nor thieves..., shall inherit the kingdom of God. New International Version 9...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes [malakoi] nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoitai] 10 nor thieves...will inherit the kingdom of God. Revised Standard Version--1952 edition: 9...Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals [malakoi and arsenokoitai], 10 nor thieves..., will inherit the kingdom of God. Revised Standard Version--1971 edition: 9...Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts [malakoi and arsenokoitai], 10 nor thieves..., will inherit the kingdom of God. A comparison of how the two Greek words are translated in the different versions shows that translations often, unfortunately, become the interpretations of the translators. In I Cor. 6:9 Paul lists the types of persons who will be excluded from the kingdom of God and for some he uses the Greek words malakoi and arsenokoitai. KJ translates the first "effeminate," a word that has no necessary connection with homosexuals. The NIV translates the first "male prostitutes" and the second, "homosexual offenders". The RSV in its first edition of 1952 translated both words by the single term, "homosexuals". In the revised RSV of 1971, the translation "homosexuals" is discarded and the two Greek words are translated as "sexual perverts"; obviously the translators had concluded the earlier translation was not supportable. Malakoi literally means "soft" and is translated that way by both KJ and RSV in Matt. 11:8 and Luke 7:25. When it is used in moral contexts in Greek writings it has the meaning of morally weak; a related word, malakia, when used in moral contexts, means dissolute and occasionally refers to sexual activity but never to homosexual acts. There are at least five Greek words that specifically mean people who practice same-gender sex. Unquestionably, if Paul had meant such people, he would not have used a word that is never used to mean that in Greek writings when he had other words that were clear in that meaning. He must have meant what the word commonly means in moral contexts, "morally weak." There is no justification, most scholars agree, for translating it "homosexuals." Arsenokoitai, is not found in any extant Greek writings until the second century when it apparently means "pederast", a corrupter of boys, and the sixth century when it is used for husbands practicing a**l intercourse with their wives. Again, if Paul meant people practicing same-gender sex, why didn't he use one of the common words? Some scholars think probably the second century use might come closest to Paul's intention. If so, there is no justification for translating the word as "homosexuals." Other scholars see a connection with Greek words used to refer to same-gender sex in Leviticus. If so, it is speaking of heterosexuals given to such lust they turn to such acts. Richard Hays tells us, "I Corinthians 6:9-11 states no rule to govern the conduct of Christians."B-7 One commentator has another reason for rejecting the NIV and original RSV translations, "homosexuals." Today it could mean that a person who is homosexual in orientation even though "of irreproachable morals, is automatically branded as unrighteous and excluded from the kingdom of God, just as if he were the most depraved of sexual perverts."B-8 So I Cor. 6:9 says nothing about homosexuality with the possible exception of condemnable pederasty. Quote: This is the unrighteousness of God Pardon? There is NO unrighteousness of God. Quote: in Romans 1:18-32. Have you guys ever read this? This is consistant throughout scripture. Read the Word of God... "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Godmademegay.com/letter.htm Romans 1:21, 26, 27 Revised Standard Version 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him... 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men... The King James and New International versions say virtually the same thing. Romans 1:26 and 27 clearly speak of same-gender sex by both men and women, the only passage in the New Testament that does so. Rom. 1:18-32 speaks of Gentiles (heterosexuals) who could and should have known and served and given thanks to God but would not, so God gave them up and let them do whatever they wanted to do, and that resulted in degrading and shameful acts, including same-gender sex. It is almost a moot point, but Paul is not listing sins for which God will condemn anyone, he is listing sins that occur because people have forsaken Him. These are acts committed by those who have turned away from God and so become "consumed with passion." All of us recognize that those who forsake God and give themselves over to lustful living--homosexual or heterosexual--stand condemned by the Bible. This passage is talking about people who chose to forsake God. Conservative theologian Richard Hays says, "No direct appeal to Romans 1 as a source of rules about sexual conduct is possible."B-6 Quote: Well there you go. A small bible study. Start studying. Quote: If you have any questions, just ask! And most importantly ask Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins, you are not saved if you are a homosexual and this is why. Aww, thanks for judging my personal relationship with God based solely on your personal interpretation of some translated words written by a guy two thousand years ago. Quote: You have not truly repented of your sins. If you have stumbled back into homosexuality, then you need to repent again and turn from your sins, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Quote: Here is some encouragement: Ephesians 4:17-24 says, "This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [fn4] the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." Galatians 5:16-26 tells us how we ought to walk as christians. Our walk means how we ought to live our lives. "16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." Hey, this is the best part about Jesus, even though your in your sins, if you confess and seriously repent of your sins, meaning to turn from them and not come back, the Lord is just and will forgive you. 1 John 1:9,10 "9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." Thanks for that. rolleyes Quote: Your still in your sins if your a homosexual and you need to repent. I am not. Quote: It would be the same scenario if it was someone who was an alcoholic, drug abuser, adulterer, murder, liar, a disobedient one. Homosexuality is simply unrighteousness of God. It has nothing to do with Him. I tell you this is the love of Christ. Everything you list there is an action. Homosexuality is not an action; it is a condition. Quote: Please repent and I hope the light of God will truly shine upon your life, God bless. Same to you.
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:54 pm
BEING homosexual is not a sin, and so, it is possible to be both christian and homosexual. ACTING upon homosexual desires in a physical or mental way is wrong however. So it would depend on what you're trying to say, truly. If you're just saying that BEING homosexual is no sin, then yes. However, if you're saying that ACTING upon homosexual desires is okay, then no. Please realize that regardless of the one verse, God still destroyed two entire cities because of homosexual acts. I believe that's proof enough of his viewpoint.
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:38 pm
Oh snaps, well i totally put a typo, God is holy, righteous, just, and perfect. The unrighteousness of God that i typed was not implying the unrighteousness of Him, because God has no unrighteousness, but the unrighteousness of man in God's eyes, which is precisely what Paul is referring to. My bad. Hey! I am not condemning you or anyone who is a homosexual, but if you are a homosexual, and are professing to be a follower of Jesus Christ, your hypocrisy speaks louder than your profession of faith in Christ. This is all out of love bro, no hard feelings, judgment, or damning or whatever might be thought of what was posted. From your extensive research in the Greek, i see that you have gone to extreme lengths to justify your definition of homosexuality in the Bible. It is sad because your missing the context of the Word of God, and justifying what the Word of God is saying so you can live in your sin. So why did Sodom and Gomorrah get judged for their sin? They were sexually perverted in homosexual ways, not lacking hospitality like some theologians say. It was purely because of their sexual immorality. Plus in Leviticus it clearly states it is an abomination to God Himself. He said so in the OT and is saying it in the NT. He does not contradict Himself. The Word of God is clear on His view, now instead of conforming God to what you feel and believe, conform to God's will. I can only pray that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth.
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:00 pm
CrazyKat685 Oh snaps, well i totally put a typo, God is holy, righteous, just, and perfect. The unrighteousness of God that i typed was not implying the unrighteousness of Him, because God has no unrighteousness, but the unrighteousness of man in God's eyes, which is precisely what Paul is referring to. My bad. Hey! I am not condemning you or anyone who is a homosexual, but if you are a homosexual, and are professing to be a follower of Jesus Christ, your hypocrisy speaks louder than your profession of faith in Christ. This is all out of love bro, no hard feelings, judgment, or damning or whatever might be thought of what was posted. From your extensive research in the Greek, i see that you have gone to extreme lengths to justify your definition of homosexuality in the Bible. It is sad because your missing the context of the Word of God, and justifying what the Word of God is saying so you can live in your sin. So why did Sodom and Gomorrah get judged for their sin? They were sexually perverted in homosexual ways, not lacking hospitality like some theologians say. It was purely because of their sexual immorality. Plus in Leviticus it clearly states it is an abomination to God Himself. He said so in the OT and is saying it in the NT. He does not contradict Himself. The Word of God is clear on His view, now instead of conforming God to what you feel and believe, conform to God's will. I can only pray that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth. That's right, because of their sexually immoral ACTS, they were destroyed. The only state of BEING that's a sin is a state of BEING in mortal sin, but then, that would require acts anyways.
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