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 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:46 am
Sheilagh, I think I heart you. If you have a yahoo account (and aren't on there already) you seriously need to join the R.A.O.U.L. yahoo!group. Lots of Raoul support and sane discussion all around. Quote: Isn't it funny that the most vocal fans of the unloved and unwelcomed outcast in turn make fellow fans feel outcast for their taste. Very good point. It's the same basic principal as a school clique, really. A lot of people subconciously feel that by belittling others they look cooler and better in comparison. But all it does is go around in a circle, really, with everyone trying to compare themselves to someone else's perceived faults in accordance with their group of friends. It just carries over to fandoms too when you have a lot of teenagers in yours. POTO phans are, on average, going to be the outcast types and thus identify with Erik (Who's the ultimate outcast, really.), whereas Raoul comes off like the popular jock type. If you read JTHM, a good comparison is to those goth kids who were harassing Nny at the movies. If that makes sense. I sometimes get too psychological for my own good. Bah...
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:15 pm
Clap clap clap.
Cheers. I concur whole-heartedly (with first post, nya).
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Very valid.
The main reasons I accosiate 'Raoul' with 'Fop' is because of fanfiction, where on one fiction it taught me the meaning of the nifty little craze.
before that I just called Raoul a Pretty Boy.
I think the main reasons so many people call poor Raoul a fop is because a) 2004!Movie and b) Andrew Lloyd Webber's Musical.
So basically, blame it on the Webber.
I found that in the 2004 movie AND in the musical, he was a leetle too full of himself, and that's one of the things that annoys me.
Up until.. erm.. yesterday [Please don't kill mee! I've been meaning to read it I swear! gonk ] I hadn't even READ a little of the original novel, and now I've read Gaston Leroux's version..
.. he really isn't a fop. really. I blame it on Webber. I love the musical but with Raoul he sorta misled people, and cut out some things that should of been left in. [violin lessons and catching the scarf would of upped my opinion of Raoul if they'd been left in, I don't know about anyone else..]
..but but, in Gaston Leroux's version, he's still overdramatic and stroppy. I think so anyway.
Oh and on the Erik!love issue, I've found that sometimes people like to love the unloved. I know that I always like misunderstood characters best, but thats because I generally Identify with them more -shrugs- I think people like a challenge and er.. seeing erik laughing and carefree would be a big one..
-shrugsshrugs- Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sorta.. drawn.. to the unsociable/impossible/mysterious characters. [vampires are hot too! <3]
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:26 am
Even in the musical I still wouldn't call Raoul a fop. Yeah, he comes off as a bit of a dullard, but still not a fop. He's not colorful enough to be a fop. This is a fop:  This is a Raoul: Difference? Oh, and the sea-scarf thing is in the musical as a mentioning. Raoul: "Christine Daae, where is your red scarf?"
Christine: "Monsieur?"
Raoul: "You can't have lost it, not after all the trouble I took. I was just 14 and soaked to the skin..."
Christine: "...Because you had run into the sea to fetch my scarf!"
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:09 am
PhantomoftheFox Even in the musical I still wouldn't call Raoul a fop. Yeah, he comes off as a bit of a dullard, but still not a fop. He's not colorful enough to be a fop. This is a fop: This is a Raoul: Difference? Oh, and the sea-scarf thing is in the musical as a mentioning. Raoul: "Christine Daae, where is your red scarf?"
Christine: "Monsieur?"
Raoul: "You can't have lost it, not after all the trouble I took. I was just 14 and soaked to the skin..."
Christine: "...Because you had run into the sea to fetch my scarf!"
anyway, if it was for me, a) I didn't think Raoul was a fop in the musical just too full of himself & b) the last time I managed to see the musical, I was eight.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:36 am
The pictures were at everyone in general, and the quotes were at you.
As much as I like to blame ALW for things, I still don't think he made Raoul out to be a fop, nor 'full of himself' in his musical. Now, Gerik is full of himself...
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:01 pm
PhantomoftheFox The pictures were at everyone in general, and the quotes were at you. As much as I like to blame ALW for things, I still don't think he made Raoul out to be a fop, nor 'full of himself' in his musical. Now, Gerik is full of himself... I'm gonna try to kill the fop thing once and for all with my film.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:41 pm
PhantomoftheFox The pictures were at everyone in general, and the quotes were at you. As much as I like to blame ALW for things, I still don't think he made Raoul out to be a fop, nor 'full of himself' in his musical. Now, Gerik is full of himself...
In my opinion, I definately don't have any right to blame Mr. Webber. It's the musical adaptation so things change, and without him, It's possible I never would have discovered Phantom. I have a lot to thank him for. I think I sometimes forget that before I fell in love with the book, I fell in love with the musical.
My concluding view: Raoul is by no means a fop, although in the musical, I sometimes find his character disagreeable, for odd reasons that people sometimes have for disliking other people, generally stupid, pointless annoyances. But I have to say that had I read the book before the musical, I would have liked Raoul better seeing as he's an all around nice guy and there isn't much to complain about, I think it has something to do with books getting everything across better, and there aren't any time limits on a book, so you get to know everything about the character.
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Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:07 pm
Well, I don't really think he's a fop, but I like calling him that anyway because it's fun and I like the word.
Oh, those pictures: I remember reading in the libretto the characters in the opening of Il Muto. They were "Confiante", "1st Fop", and "2nd Fop". So thanks for reminding me of that.
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Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:20 pm
Elanchana Well, I don't really think he's a fop, but I like calling him that anyway because it's fun and I like the word. Oh, those pictures: I remember reading in the libretto the characters in the opening of Il Muto. They were "Confiante", "1st Fop", and "2nd Fop". So thanks for reminding me of that. As fun as it might be, calling Raoul a fop is like calling Albert Einstein the King of Morons. Which, as you can see, is quite pointless.
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Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 8:45 am
Utakan Elanchana Well, I don't really think he's a fop, but I like calling him that anyway because it's fun and I like the word. Oh, those pictures: I remember reading in the libretto the characters in the opening of Il Muto. They were "Confiante", "1st Fop", and "2nd Fop". So thanks for reminding me of that. As fun as it might be, calling Raoul a fop is like calling Albert Einstein the King of Morons. Which, as you can see, is quite pointless. *gulp* *blush* [...]x20,000 Ummmm.....
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Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:42 pm
Elanchana Utakan Elanchana Well, I don't really think he's a fop, but I like calling him that anyway because it's fun and I like the word. Oh, those pictures: I remember reading in the libretto the characters in the opening of Il Muto. They were "Confiante", "1st Fop", and "2nd Fop". So thanks for reminding me of that. As fun as it might be, calling Raoul a fop is like calling Albert Einstein the King of Morons. Which, as you can see, is quite pointless. *gulp* *blush* [...]x20,000 Ummmm..... O.o Crap, was I being mean again? I was just pointing out that yeah it's fun, but it doesn't really pertain to him. I'll admit Fop's a funny word, though.
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Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:45 pm
Utakan Elanchana Utakan Elanchana Well, I don't really think he's a fop, but I like calling him that anyway because it's fun and I like the word. Oh, those pictures: I remember reading in the libretto the characters in the opening of Il Muto. They were "Confiante", "1st Fop", and "2nd Fop". So thanks for reminding me of that. As fun as it might be, calling Raoul a fop is like calling Albert Einstein the King of Morons. Which, as you can see, is quite pointless. *gulp* *blush* [...]x20,000 Ummmm..... O.o Crap, was I being mean again? I was just pointing out that yeah it's fun, but it doesn't really pertain to him. I'll admit Fop's a funny word, though. I mean it's funny and I make fop jokes too but never seriously
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