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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:14 am
Arqueete If God says its wrong, then I assume he has a good reason for it, as a semi-friend of mine said on his website (Which is currently down unfortunately). The bible says in a few places that it is wrong, and as I said to my mom about homosexuality before she decided she didn't believe the bible to be truth anymore, if you're going to believe the bible, you can't go around picking and choosing which parts you believe. Meaning, you can't say, "I agree with the bible on Witchcraft but I think its wrong on homosexuality", because that makes no sense. So I think all Christians who believe the bible can't argue the fact that God is indeed disapproving of homosexuality. So, as for dealing with the secular community and spreading that message, I think we need to make some things clear that aren't necessarily being made clear to them in some cases: -"Love the sinner hate the sin", we have nothing against homosexuals, we just have a problem with their sexual prefrence. -We believe the bible and what it says is true, and since it says that homosexuality is wrong we believe that. In general, that is the only reason why we discourage homosexuality. -If your friend was cutting herself, which lets assume most people feel is wrong, would you be able to live with the fact that she's doing this and you make no attempt to talk to her about it? That's what its like asking a Christian to keep their opinions about homosexuality to themself, you want to talk to people about it because we feel they are hurting themselves in the long run by doing what they're doing, it is intolerance in love. As with the above point, we need to show we do share our opinions out of love, not because homosexuals are an outlet for out hate. There are some Christians out there that give people a bad veiw of homosexuality because they approach the situation wrong. They say, "If you do this you'll go to hell." which is very upsetting and and angering thing to hear, and will in most cases not make the person on the recieving end of this phrase run out and buy a bible. It might make people think about what they're doing, but the kind of hate towards Christians that spawns from it in most cases makes this seem not worth the effort to me. I think if you are going to talk to someone about their homosexuality it should be in a personal way, factual, loving, and not pressuring. Remember that no matter how difficult it might be to deal with, it is they who must make the choice in the end, not you. Christians should be, to their friends and family or even strangers, someone to be avaliable to talk with at all times and should show that we aren't all talk- show that Jesus has made a change in our lives to make us better people. As the bible says, you need to make your light shine, and like a guiding light in the darkness of sin they will come wink And all this is in my humble opinion, of course, I'm definately not and expert on the subject sweatdrop *glomps*
I luff you!!!!!
Well, not THAT way of course. I just love what you wrote 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:38 am
Mystrunner Takai_desu_yo Two Women very close to me were molested as Children. I don't find the fact of legalizing it even the slightest bit morally decent, and completely detest the Thought of anyone even considering legalizing it. HomoSexuals have hurt none, have abridged the rights of none, and don't deserve to be even described in the same sentance as Child Molesters. I can't see how anyone could even be so ignorent as to believe that it could ever be legalized. It is a form of Torture, something that sticks with you for your entire life. You can't just shrug it off and get on with it. It is Rape, it is Wrong, and it is and, assuming there is a God, always will be illegal. No, Mystrunner, this is not an Attack on you, or your post, just the thought of someone defending their stance on Homosexuals with that...just makes me...ugh. It just makes my skin crawl. Just hope that stays true, Takai. I pray that it will be. But I know a lot of stunned 60-somethings who cannot believe what is going on today, in our own courts. In any case, no, I am not calling homosexuals child molesters. I am, however, rating homosexuality on the same scale as pedelophilia. In God's eyes, they are both sins. And I have no doubts that if we continue to let our morality bend in the wind as it does right now, it will just as easily break on other issues such as this. If you don't believe me, look up a group called NAMBLA. I have a feeling it will disgust you as much as it does me. And they are still fighting for rights, much as homosexuals were years ago. However, if a love between two men, or two women can be justified, don't you think that there will eventually be justification for love between adults and children? Again, I pray that there will not be. But I fear when the time comes to stand up for what is right, too few will be willing, as there are too few now. How can you even compare an adult/adult relationship with a child/adult relationship, they are very different things, even if gays do get rights, that doesn't mean that our leaders will go crazy and allow something that could be considered *****.. One of the most important factors nowadays is the protection of children, which would negate their attempts, go to both demo/repub conventions and ask them where they stand on ***** and that^^, I'm sure they're answers will go along with ours.. Mystrunner And yet, we must consider where this will go if homosexual marriage is considered "Perfectly acceptable." Note that 100 years ago, homosexuality was something so taboo, that it was illegal. People were killed for it. Child molestation was the same way, and no one would imagine about talking about it. Now that homosexuality is becoming mainstream and normal, what's to say that ***** are not going to be welcomed in open arms within another 50 years or so? They're already challenging our legal system to gain immunity from criminal prosecution. There are even published handbooks supporting their "cause." None of us would even begin to support them, or so I hope. But in 50 years, those of us who feel that way, who's to say that we won't be the ones called the haters, the bigots, the infexible, the intolerant... Every time we let them walk on over us, we get a little weaker. God forbids homosexuality. I've yet to have God lead me wrong. If it weren't for Him, I very much doubt I'd even be here today. So, at least you know my stance on this matter. Homosexuality and child molestation are two VERY different things, 'homosexualness' is a consenting relationship betwee two same-sex people, and child molestation is an unwanted act 'performed' unwillingly and forcefully, you cannot compare the two. Also, can you give me the exact scripture that forbids homosexuality? and Lev. 18:12 doesn't count, if you take lie in to context, it is refering to sex, not the relathions itself. And also take note that it says nothing of woman-woman relations.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:44 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns How can you even compare an adult/adult relationship with a child/adult relationship, they are very different things, even if gays do get rights, that doesn't mean that our leaders will go crazy and allow something that could be considered *****.. One of the most important factors nowadays is the protection of children, which would negate their attempts, go to both demo/repub conventions and ask them where they stand on ***** and that^^, I'm sure they're answers will go along with ours.. If you asked the Dems/Repubs 50 years ago on how they would feel on gay marrage, their answers would have been the same as if you asked them now about *****. All I'm saying is, if we don't do something, we will only lose more and more moral ground. Look at TV, even! I mean, some of the material you see nowadays would have been astonishing even 30 years ago! And we're not shocked by it at all. We're losing this battle, and it's about time someone fought back. Dr_Pepper_tgns Homosexuality and child molestation are two VERY different things, 'homosexualness' is a consenting relationship betwee two same-sex people, and child molestation is an unwanted act 'performed' unwillingly and forcefully, you cannot compare the two. Also, can you give me the exact scripture that forbids homosexuality? and Lev. 18:12 doesn't count, if you take lie in to context, it is refering to sex, not the relathions itself. And also take note that it says nothing of woman-woman relations. Well, for starters: Romans 1:18-28 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I would like to call attention to the point " And that is what some of you were." No one is beyond God's love. smile But all the same, the letters are there in black and white. Homosexuality is a sin, as much as lying, murder, and so on.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:06 pm
Mystrunner Dr_Pepper_tgns How can you even compare an adult/adult relationship with a child/adult relationship, they are very different things, even if gays do get rights, that doesn't mean that our leaders will go crazy and allow something that could be considered *****.. One of the most important factors nowadays is the protection of children, which would negate their attempts, go to both demo/repub conventions and ask them where they stand on ***** and that^^, I'm sure they're answers will go along with ours.. If you asked the Dems/Repubs 50 years ago on how they would feel on gay marrage, their answers would have been the same as if you asked them now about *****. All I'm saying is, if we don't do something, we will only lose more and more moral ground. Look at TV, even! I mean, some of the material you see nowadays would have been astonishing even 30 years ago! And we're not shocked by it at all. We're losing this battle, and it's about time someone fought back. Dr_Pepper_tgns Homosexuality and child molestation are two VERY different things, 'homosexualness' is a consenting relationship betwee two same-sex people, and child molestation is an unwanted act 'performed' unwillingly and forcefully, you cannot compare the two. Also, can you give me the exact scripture that forbids homosexuality? and Lev. 18:12 doesn't count, if you take lie in to context, it is refering to sex, not the relathions itself. And also take note that it says nothing of woman-woman relations. Well, for starters: Romans 1:18-28 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I would like to call attention to the point " And that is what some of you were." No one is beyond God's love. smile But all the same, the letters are there in black and white. Homosexuality is a sin, as much as lying, murder, and so on. 1Cor 6:9, KJV says effeminate, not homosexual [it's possible to be homo but not effeminate], what trans. are you using btw? Rom. 1:27 [KJV] says lust, which still does not touch homosexuality itself, but the homosexual lust.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:34 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns 1Cor 6:9, KJV says effeminate, not homosexual [it's possible to be homo but not effeminate. No, it is not possible to be a homosexual male without being effeminate, for the word "effeminate" means like or similar to a female. While a gay male may not walk, talk, or move like a female, by acting on his attraction to another male, he is behaving like a female; therefore, he IS effeminate.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:40 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns Mystrunner Dr_Pepper_tgns How can you even compare an adult/adult relationship with a child/adult relationship, they are very different things, even if gays do get rights, that doesn't mean that our leaders will go crazy and allow something that could be considered *****.. One of the most important factors nowadays is the protection of children, which would negate their attempts, go to both demo/repub conventions and ask them where they stand on ***** and that^^, I'm sure they're answers will go along with ours.. If you asked the Dems/Repubs 50 years ago on how they would feel on gay marrage, their answers would have been the same as if you asked them now about *****. All I'm saying is, if we don't do something, we will only lose more and more moral ground. Look at TV, even! I mean, some of the material you see nowadays would have been astonishing even 30 years ago! And we're not shocked by it at all. We're losing this battle, and it's about time someone fought back. Dr_Pepper_tgns Homosexuality and child molestation are two VERY different things, 'homosexualness' is a consenting relationship betwee two same-sex people, and child molestation is an unwanted act 'performed' unwillingly and forcefully, you cannot compare the two. Also, can you give me the exact scripture that forbids homosexuality? and Lev. 18:12 doesn't count, if you take lie in to context, it is refering to sex, not the relathions itself. And also take note that it says nothing of woman-woman relations. Well, for starters: Romans 1:18-28 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I would like to call attention to the point " And that is what some of you were." No one is beyond God's love. smile But all the same, the letters are there in black and white. Homosexuality is a sin, as much as lying, murder, and so on. 1Cor 6:9, KJV says effeminate, not homosexual [it's possible to be homo but not effeminate], what trans. are you using btw? Rom. 1:27 [KJV] says lust, which still does not touch homosexuality itself, but the homosexual lust. I am currently using a NIV version. The KJV is the only translation that uses the word effeminate, and not only that, the word can easily be substitued in for homosexuality. It stems from the latin word Effeminacy, which means to behave like a woman. I doubt God frowns on men wearing dresses, else we'd never have gotten any theatre. wink In any case, effeminate can be used in place of homosexual; Mircrsoft Encarta only features it inside of their article on homosexuality, and in two other articles. As for the KJV of Romans 1:27: Romans 1:27, KJV And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Men working with men that which is unseemly is a rather polite way of saying that they were... well, doing the horizontal mambo. An' I'm not talking about dancing, don't quote me here. But I think you can see what I'm getting at. No matter what the translation, it is a known sin.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:54 pm
Ok, it's a sin, can we move away from this? We all know this.. But we should be debating about whether or not they will go to heaven, I'm pretty sure this is where the major discrepancy lies, and please don't flame me, this is a debate after all and without two points of view it's just a disscussion. stressed
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:10 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns Ok, it's a sin, can we move away from this? We all know this.. But we should be debating about whether or not they will go to heaven, I'm pretty sure this is where the major discrepancy lies, and please don't flame me, this is a debate after all and without two points of view it's just a disscussion. stressed Nah, now worries about flames. Remeber 1 Corinthians 6:9-11? Quote: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I think that you can go to heaven, even as a homosexual, as long as you are a Christian as well, and know that Christ died for your sins, just as a compulsive liar can. However, if you are a Christian, you would know full well that God does not want you to carry on in a homosexual lifestyle. He will love you either way, gay or not, but it... well, I'd say it hurts Him to see you choose to ignore Him and His will, and still walk in sin. If you really know Him, you won't.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:13 pm
Well ok then.. whats the big debate then? whee
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:31 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns Well ok then.. whats the big debate then? whee The stance we as Christians should take on it, I imagine. If His will be done, we should be against it, not negatively, but with an open heart, telling of God's love and salvation. Just as well, we should protect our own rights. As in the instance of marrage, which was made by God for a man and a woman, we should not allow it to be perverted (by which I mean altered for an evil purpose, like it or not, sin is evil, and through it so is homosexuality.)
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:39 pm
Mystrunner Dr_Pepper_tgns Well ok then.. whats the big debate then? whee The stance we as Christians should take on it, I imagine. If His will be done, we should be against it, not negatively, but with an open heart, telling of God's love and salvation. Just as well, we should protect our own rights. As in the instance of marrage, which was made by God for a man and a woman, we should not allow it to be perverted (by which I mean altered for an evil purpose, like it or not, sin is evil, and through it so is homosexuality.) Hmm.. I actually tend to agree with that, but one of my good friends said [yes, I know this is the wrong p-o-v but still] 'If they want to get married and burn, then let em' do it..' I beleive that it is meant to be between a Man & Woman, and I hope that doesn't change..
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:50 pm
Japi The Bible says it's wrong, what should we as Christians do...? I know is its wrong, We as Christians shouldn't support it. We have to keep on praying that this debate will end and that God will do what He wants and intends to do. Although Jesus died on the cross for us all, we have to show and tell them that its wrong. But we have to pray that God will help us out this this debate b/c alone we aren't strong. We as Christians should be one with God the father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We can't fight this alone.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:01 pm
Dr_Pepper_tgns Mystrunner Dr_Pepper_tgns Well ok then.. whats the big debate then? whee The stance we as Christians should take on it, I imagine. If His will be done, we should be against it, not negatively, but with an open heart, telling of God's love and salvation. Just as well, we should protect our own rights. As in the instance of marrage, which was made by God for a man and a woman, we should not allow it to be perverted (by which I mean altered for an evil purpose, like it or not, sin is evil, and through it so is homosexuality.) Hmm.. I actually tend to agree with that, but one of my good friends said [yes, I know this is the wrong p-o-v but still] 'If they want to get married and burn, then let em' do it..' I beleive that it is meant to be between a Man & Woman, and I hope that doesn't change.. True, it's not the right point of view. But what they would be doing would not be marrage. God's quite firm on that bit. Marrage can only be between a man and a woman, two men don't cut it, even if one is wearing a dress.
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:18 am
gold is not real nor is jesus the bible is just teachings that people should but are not required to, now if you people don't do something about your banners i will be most upset cause what it said in there really made me feel bad for people with other religions. . .
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:40 am
Trixxx god is not real nor is jesus the bible is just teachings that people should but are not required to, now if you people don't do something about your banners i will be most upset cause what it said in there really made me feel bad for people with other religions. . .
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