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Do I have a point or what?
  Yes, GaaraNaru forever
  No, I'm sticking with good ol' SasuNaru
  KibaShika?
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Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:24 pm


Kit_Pocket
shonen-tempura-ai
I'm a fan of SasuNaru, NejiNaru, and GaaNaru. So am I allowed to take sides in any part of this?
What he said. sweatdrop


Take whatever side you want, just make sure you have something to back it up.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:36 pm


Chieira
CrimsonRune
naruto is the ultimate uke...


gonk

I've ranted about this misconception so many times that I don't feel like typing it all up again crying Ah well.


Naruto is so not uke-ish. Suichi from Gravitation is. Not Naruto.

I see him more as a seke, and also it depends who he's with. I can't see Naruto letting Sasuke top him. It is more probable that he would be Gaara's uke because he dosen't see him as a rival. Then again Gaara could be uke too because he most likley dosen't know anything aabout being intimate, so he would have to be shown how 3nodding

As for Naruto being with Lee, it is improbable, however Naruto seems to hang out with Lee more than any of the other konoha guys in his spare time. (There is no evidence in the manga to back this up, I say this because in the fillers he only seems to hang out with Sakura, and Lee of his own accord. He also seems to like being around Shikamaru too. Him and Kiba are always arguing...he likes Hinata but dosen't notice her all that often...and dosen't seem to be close to anyone else. I know, crappy filler evidence, but at least it's something...oh...and he thought that jumpsuit Gai gave him was like teh L337-ness, so I suppose he has an appreciation for spandex xd )

Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic


Chieira
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:52 pm


King_Cicero_IV
Chieira
CrimsonRune
naruto is the ultimate uke...


gonk

I've ranted about this misconception so many times that I don't feel like typing it all up again crying Ah well.


Naruto is so not uke-ish. Suichi from Gravitation is. Not Naruto.

I see him more as a seke, and also it depends who he's with. I can't see Naruto letting Sasuke top him. It is more probable that he would be Gaara's uke because he dosen't see him as a rival. Then again Gaara could be uke too because he most likley dosen't know anything aabout being intimate, so he would have to be shown how 3nodding

As for Naruto being with Lee, it is improbable, however Naruto seems to hang out with Lee more than any of the other konoha guys in his spare time. (There is no evidence in the manga to back this up, I say this because in the fillers he only seems to hang out with Sakura, and Lee of his own accord. He also seems to like being around Shikamaru too. Him and Kiba are always arguing...he likes Hinata but dosen't notice her all that often...and dosen't seem to be close to anyone else. I know, crappy filler evidence, but at least it's something...oh...and he thought that jumpsuit Gai gave him was like teh L337-ness, so I suppose he has an appreciation for spandex xd )


*HUGS* Thank you! crying Naruto is not uke-ish at all, and it kills me when fangirls make him that way. The fandom has created this like... alternate version of Naruto so that they can basically turn him into a woman with a p***s, and it makes me so sad.

Hm... I'd say out of all the Konoha guys, manga evidence shows Naruto spending the most time with Shikamaru. Maybe that's just the Shika fangirl in me speaking, but especially around the time of the Chuunin exams, Naruto seems to be spending more time around him. I do, actually, ship NaruShikaNaru, so yeah.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:57 am


Chieira
King_Cicero_IV
Chieira
CrimsonRune
naruto is the ultimate uke...


gonk

I've ranted about this misconception so many times that I don't feel like typing it all up again crying Ah well.


Naruto is so not uke-ish. Suichi from Gravitation is. Not Naruto.

I see him more as a seke, and also it depends who he's with. I can't see Naruto letting Sasuke top him. It is more probable that he would be Gaara's uke because he dosen't see him as a rival. Then again Gaara could be uke too because he most likley dosen't know anything aabout being intimate, so he would have to be shown how 3nodding

As for Naruto being with Lee, it is improbable, however Naruto seems to hang out with Lee more than any of the other konoha guys in his spare time. (There is no evidence in the manga to back this up, I say this because in the fillers he only seems to hang out with Sakura, and Lee of his own accord. He also seems to like being around Shikamaru too. Him and Kiba are always arguing...he likes Hinata but dosen't notice her all that often...and dosen't seem to be close to anyone else. I know, crappy filler evidence, but at least it's something...oh...and he thought that jumpsuit Gai gave him was like teh L337-ness, so I suppose he has an appreciation for spandex xd )


*HUGS* Thank you! crying Naruto is not uke-ish at all, and it kills me when fangirls make him that way. The fandom has created this like... alternate version of Naruto so that they can basically turn him into a woman with a p***s, and it makes me so sad.

Hm... I'd say out of all the Konoha guys, manga evidence shows Naruto spending the most time with Shikamaru. Maybe that's just the Shika fangirl in me speaking, but especially around the time of the Chuunin exams, Naruto seems to be spending more time around him. I do, actually, ship NaruShikaNaru, so yeah.


Well Shikamaru did decide to hang out in Naruto's room while he was in the hospital even though Naruto wasn't awake and Chouji was in another room.

Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic


Uchimaki Yuuzora

Cuddly Bunny

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:03 am


LOL I got this super funny thought when I thought about the Naruto uke-theory. We all need to gang up on kyutsie Sai and tell him to stop giving people the misconception that our Naru-dobe doesn't have a p***s. xd I love Sai. I definitely think that he's a seriously blatant yaoi fanatic. heart Took me a long time to get used to him, though.

Hmm... Well, about the GaaNaru kyutsie arguement... I agree, cute, hot, whatever. With just the right artist, any couple could look cute or hot or gosh darn smexy. The best place to look for support for your couples is by making an introspection into their characters. It makes your arguements a lot better. And c'mon, this is the yaoi guild. There is no set couple. You're free to talk about your couples as you wish.

I just thought of this, but I would be very happy if Kishimoto kept everything platonic, because setting actual couples takes the fun away from the series. Believe me, I know. It happened with Digimon, my second longest anime obsession since Sailor Moon. crying I cry whenever I think about the fact that Yamato married that miss-priss-supposed-mother-hen-seductress (LIAR) Sora or that Takeru and Hikari never got together. ~wipes away tears~ But that's off topic, sorry.

Lee! Lee is awesome. I fell in love with him the moment that he appeared in the series. Why? Because his English dub cracked me up (and note: I abhor the dub). His super-perfectly pronounced English made me laugh so hard and it was just so darn endearing. Lee is one of my squishbunnies.

Back to the Naruto uke arguement! (sorry, I'm kind of scatterbrainned at the moment and I'm sure that it shows in this response) It is a big misconception that Naruto's the "super uke". It's kind of upsetting really, because he's got so much brute strength. I don't really read any Naruto pairing fics other than my OTP just because I'm wierd like that, but in the SasuNaru fandom, everyone seems to see Naruto as the super uke and he's leaking pheramones from him or something.

Eto... The common thing there is the Sasu vs Neji vs Gaa battle for Naruto and that's kind of where I got tired of the NejiNaru and GaaNaru. It drove me insane, it really did. (That's why I think that there should be a Naru vs Neji vs Gaa battle for Sasuke. Don't ask why. I read a fic called Loveless xd ) I always felt so bad for Neji and Gaara because in the end their love was unrequited. That's how I came to love NejiGaa so freaking much. They're so crack, but the fight over Naruto ends and they can be happy. ~sighs contentedly~ Or I also like NejiShika/NejiHina/NejiSaku and GaaLee/GaaHina/GaaSaku/GaaIno(Machi Yoko Naruto, what've you done to me?! whee )

I think that a lot of people who claim to like SasuNaru forget that Sasuke's got the speed and the flexibility, but Naruto's the force and power. That's why I subscribe to the idea that Naruto will be able to beat Sasuke in the power battle when they get older. And ooh, I just found another way to support them! Yay! Speed and flexibility to compliment force and power! Oe~ ~jumps for joy~ Don't mind me, I'm kind of hyper.

Anyway~ until I manage to get over here again! LOL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:39 am


Uchimaki Yuuzora
I just thought of this, but I would be very happy if Kishimoto kept everything platonic, because setting actual couples takes the fun away from the series. Believe me, I know. It happened with Digimon, my second longest anime obsession since Sailor Moon. crying I cry whenever I think about the fact that Yamato married that miss-priss-supposed-mother-hen-seductress (LIAR) Sora or that Takeru and Hikari never got together. ~wipes away tears~ But that's off topic, sorry.


I've said the same thing for a long time now. @_@ I'd love it if Kishimoto just kept everything platonic, with hints here and there for EVERYONE'S couples, like he's been doing so far. Because, really, no matter what he does with Sasuke, Naruto, and Sakura, he's going to be screwed with a rather large percentage of his fans. Put Sakura and Naruto together, the SasuSaku and SasuNaru people will hate him. Put Sasuke and Sakura together, and the NaruSaku and SasuNaru people will hate him. And so on, when you throw in everyone ELSE'S pairings (NaruHina, etc). There's no way to please everyone, so if he's smart, he'll leave it open.

As for your points on the uke!Naruto argument... Yes! xd You have to stop saying things that make me happy; I'm beginning to sound like a fangirl. I love Sai, too, but we need him to make some very gay comment about how incredibly LARGE Naruto's p***s is, so maybe the uke!Naruto fangirls will back off a little. Uke Naruto is taking over the fandom, and it wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't all of a sudden so hard to find fanfictions where Naruto's NOT overly uke-fied. I mean... everyone has a right to interpret a character the way they want to, especially within a fandom. And even if I really don't like that interpretation, they're still free to it. But... x.x; it gets upsetting when that interpretation is ALL you can find. There are some really good seme or at least masculine Naruto fics out there, but they're very difficult to find. Whereas "Oh, look, Naruto's a woman with a p***s!" fics are everywhere.

And you're right, Naruto does win over Sasuke when it comes to brute strength, and especially with endurance and chakra capacity. And it's just... Sasuke really, really has more feminine attributes than Naruto does. I'm not saying it's okay to turn Sasuke into a girl, either, but... that's why it really baffles me that NARUTO of all characters is the one that the fandom chooses to do that to. I honestly don't know where it came from, when Sasuke is right there, in canon, being a million times more feminine than Naruto could ever be. As I said, I don't like for Sasuke to be overly feminized, either, but feminized Naruto is just plain confusing to me. At least with Sasuke, I could see where it was coming from.

xD But anyway, that's one long rant that I'm even getting sick of hearing myself. As for all of those pairings you listed... okay, I've GOT to hear the basis for GaaHina. I've seen that so many times, but I've never had anyone explain it to me.

Chieira
Crew


Uchimaki Yuuzora

Cuddly Bunny

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:34 am


You want me to try to explain my basis for liking such a crack pairing? LOL I'm cracking up, I really am. Well... Let's see. I'm not super into GaaHina; in fact, I've only seen it once. I became a fan of it because it was so well done. I also came to see KanTen as cute after reading it, but I was thoroughly disturbed by the ShikaTsu; the NejiTema was just... ~shakes head~ When it came to LeeSasame (yeah, that's right, you read right--as in the redhead from the few Fuuma clan episodes! ^-^;; ) I was wondering what the author was smoking and how she was still able to write a very good story. ~is amazed~

Anyway, GaaHina?

I suppose that the best way that I can explain it is Beauty and the Beast. A truly caring individual reaching out to someone cast away, shunned, broken, deemed a monster, someone who's feared. Hinata is just like that. I suppose that NaruHina supporters can quote me there, but that wasn't my intention. Haha!

Here's an excerpt from the (29 chapter) story, about Gaara's sudden confusing thoughts about Hinata:

Quote:
Gaara could feel his heart skip over a beat as Hinata’s thigh brushed against his when she sat down. Suddenly the jealousy he had felt just moments ago was washed away, replaced with a feeling of being cared for. He had seen her gaze linger on him just for a few seconds and that had invoked something inside him that he had no name for yet. She didn’t hesitate to sit down when Naruto told him to move so she could join them at the table. Perhaps it was her non-hesitant way that did it for Gaara, he was not sure. He had been feared all his life and this little shy lily just smiled at them, blushing a bit as she did, and then she sat down next to him.

Sasuke and Naruto looked at them and then at each other. Hinata had done something very simple and they were pretty sure that she had no clue what so ever to what she just had done. But the slightly stunned look on Gaara’s face told them that he had turned from jealous to confused in two seconds flat.


This is related, but I have to say that I wish that it would happen in the actual series (the part about Hinata's crush on Naruto, just so that you know...):

Quote:
“Hinata-chan does not judge others until she personally knows them. She’s a good girl Temari-san,” said Naruto as he placed a couple of coffee mugs on the table. “If she have found something to care about in Gaara, she’ll treasure that like something you can not put into words.”

“How do you know this Naruto-kun?” asked Temari as she looked at the blue eyed boy.

“Because she loved me for a very long time. But she changed the crush she had into something more precious and she will stand by me and now Sasuke until the end of time. Don’t ask me how I know this, I just do,” said Naruto as he smiled gently.


This next part is very long, but the interaction is key.

Quote:
Gaara was sure that there was a conspiracy against him. Where ever he went he always ended up in the same space as that white eyed girl, Hinata. When ever he went training, she was there already, training to be better at her Gentle Fist Style. When ever he went to the café, the ramen stand or any other place, she was there or she would come just minutes after him. The way his older brother was smiling, the way h is sister’s eyes were glittering. Heck, Gaara was sure that the Hokage with the overly large bosom was in on the whole thing too. He growled as he saw the amusement in Tsunade’s light brown eyes.

Gaara walked through the streets of Konoha this night, wanting to find a place where he could sit down and just relax. The room that the Uchiha had given him at the mansion was good, but it felt as if he was intruding in something very delicate. It was as if the walls wanted to tell him something, wanted to tell him a story about terror and sorrow. And Gaara didn’t need that, he had enough of that without being dealt more. He sighed and looked up at the starlit sky. It was a full moon. He could feel the Shukaku move restless, wanting to taste blood. Not that he would feed the gruesome spirit unless he was forced too of course.

He found a secluded and very dark corner of the park and sat down; he placed his gourd next to him and leaned back against the tree trunk. He closed his eyes and tried to relax enough to get in to that special meditative state where he could get some “sleep”. But he couldn’t find that special state, instead his mind was invaded by images and memories from the past week. Hell, nothing was as he had expected it to be. Not even Uzumaki kept his usual thing going, the guy even began to smell funny.

His eyes opened when he heard footsteps close by and he looked around without seeing anyone. ‘Odd, I can hear someone, but I can not see anything.’ he thought as his sea green eyes scanned the area. He got up and placed the gourd on his back again. But even now he could not see anyone. A soft voice began to sing and this made Gaara a tad uncomfortable. But then he saw her move through the park and he wanted to snarl. Not even now could he be left alone.

Because there in the middle of the park, in the middle of the pond, stood Hinata. She moved gracefully as if she was dancing and she sang softly as she moved to sounds only she could hear. Gaara’s eyes widened a bit when he realized that she wasn’t dancing. The woman was actually practicing some form of taijutsu, but it was not like anything else he had seen before in his life. He had been impressed with Rock Lee’s skills in the matter. But this was much more graceful. She moved as she danced on air.

But as he took a step forward he stepped on a twig and the magic was broken. A loud splash could be heard and Gaara looked up and saw Hinata sit in the middle of the pond, wet from head to toe. ‘Oops…’ he thought and felt bed that he had disturbed her.

“G-Gaara-sama?” stuttered Hinata when she saw the figure with the familiar gourd on his back. He came into the park light and he nodded towards her. “W-What are y-you doing h-here?” she stuttered as she got up. The pond’s water was cold and she began to feel that coldness seep into her bones.

“I was trying to get some rest, but obviously someone is out to get me. Why can I not have a moment of peace without you dropping by?” he bluntly asked as he held out a hand to her to help her out of the water. He was mildly surprised that she actually took his hand without hesitating.

Hinata blushed and tried to apologize but he silenced her with a light shake of his head. So she was not the only one that began to think that there was a force out there that tried to set them up together. Not that she minded, she liked spending time with Gaara. He wasn’t that talk-active and they could just enjoy silence together. But this was beginning to be ridiculous. She had thought that she could have time to train her special move here in the park. At this time of the day it was always empty. But she had been wrong. And now she really began to feel cold. The autumn was beginning to turn to winter and she could feel the icy air turn her wet clothes into stiff ice-packs. This was not good, she would be very sick unless she could change clothes. And yet she felt bad about disturbing Gaara so there was only one thing to do.

“Uhm… Gaara-sama?”

“Yes?”

“I… I must go home… c-cold. Y-you can come w-with me… tea p-perhaps?” mumbled Hinata through her clappering teeth. She hugged herself with her arms as she began to walk towards her apartment.

“You are cold,” stated Gaara almost emotionless when he saw her shivering and without thinking about where he had learned it or anything, he had removed his brown jacket and placed it over her shoulders. Her eyes widened a bit but then she nodded in acceptance.

They walked away but none of them was aware of the three pairs of eyes that were watching them from a far.


Neji's take on GaaHina after spying with Temari and Kankurou during the above scene:

Quote:
Neji couldn’t help but smile a bit when he saw the two siblings fight each other, but without knowing it, he was thinking the same thing about Hinata as Kankurou did about his brother. Hinata needed a good man and…. and that other thing… She had refused to date anyone after her crush for Naruto transformed into a friendship with depths that not even Neji could comprehend. What he had witnessed this night was beyond anything he could have hoped for. For one – his cousin had developed a style of fighting that resembled dancing. An ordinary person would have thought she was dancing on the water’s surface, but Neji was not an ordinary person. He had seen the moves and he acknowledged them to be lethal if they would hit another person. It was a style he never had seen her use before and he was stunned by the fact that she must have developed it by herself. Second – Gaara had acted like a gentleman, offering his jacket to a woman who was cold and needed help. That counted for much in Neji’s book.


There's more to the development of their story, but it's not the focus of the fic. It's actually a SasuNaru m-preg courtesy of Kyuubi; but it's a fic on AFF, so I don't really want to go overboard. It's a really sweet fic... despite the Sakura bashing since she isn't in the fic much at all, just in the beginning and in the end.

Does it make sense, Chieira? I tried to make it make sense, but I don't know if it worked.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:58 am


Of course I love NaruSasu...but I also understand the beauty of GaaNaru 3nodding

x_Sheik_x


Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:04 pm


I just can't see Gaara ending up with any girl, not because of my fangirl wish for him to be gay, but because he hasn't talked to or shown any remote interest in any girl in the series. They might as well not have existed to him, it wouldn't have made any difference.

That and Gaara barley understands how humans think, let alone women who seem to baffle all men regardless. He only seems to understand Naruto, He said so himself (check the part of the first post where Gaara is talking to Kankuro)

As for NejiNaru...where the hell did that come from? I mean I've seen it but...allright so they fought once. Naruto seems to dislike Neji for the most part, and then grow to tolerate him after a while.

I think the reason Naruto is pinned as the super uke so much is because he has the blonde hair and big blue eyes...and he does look super cute as an uke. (Naru-uke fangirls want to rape him or have him be raped because they are evil like that) maybe also because he has a girly voice...and he's loud...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:05 pm


King_Cicero_IV
As for NejiNaru...where the hell did that come from? I mean I've seen it but...allright so they fought once. Naruto seems to dislike Neji for the most part, and then grow to tolerate him after a while.

I think the reason Naruto is pinned as the super uke so much is because he has the blonde hair and big blue eyes...and he does look super cute as an uke. (Naru-uke fangirls want to rape him or have him be raped because they are evil like that) maybe also because he has a girly voice...and he's loud...


Well... NejiNaru I can see, but I don't like it. The basis behind it could be that Naruto is the one who basically shatters everything Neji believes in. That's a huge change, and even if Naruto doesn't recognize it, it would put him in an important position in Neji's life. Neji also seems to develop if not a sort of admiration for Naruto, then a sort of respect for him. It's not hard to see that developing into something more over time.

As for Naruto being always made the super uke... yeah, your reasoning makes sense and is probably the best reasoning I've seen given for it. But it still boils down to the fandom disregarding Naruto's actual personality and judging him based on purely superficial attributes. As for his girly voice... it's because he is the ONE character in the series who has a voice suited to his age... we have to remember that when the series starts, they're supposed to be twelve, meaning that they probably haven't yet gone through puberty. I have three brothers, and the oldest one (being the only one who is that age) had his voice begin to change when he was between thirteen and fourteen, if I remember correctly. Also, Naruto's voice is, as I understand it, supposed to be a tad grating and annoying, because he has that sort of loud, open personality that can be grating and annoying to some people--and that grating voice and personality trait are both not something one would generally connect with a female. They're a very 'typical young boy' type of thing. And that's what I like about Naruto, and what makes it so upsetting that he gets feminized so often--he IS your typical young boy.

@Uchimaki Yuuzora: Yeah, that does help explain it. I mean... I don't ever expect to be a fan, because I am actually a tad heterophobic ^^; But I suppose I can see it happening. It IS crack, but their personalities don't clash too horribly.

Chieira
Crew


Uchimaki Yuuzora

Cuddly Bunny

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:39 pm


Hehe... Yeah, I agree with you Cicero, I don't really see him turning to a girl for romance, but that's what makes crack so much fun. And tonight... ~big smile~ I just got converted to ItaSai. Now talk about crack!! heart

Glad that my explanation helped a bit Chieira. GaaHina is hopelessly crack (in fact, I think that the majority-being 99.9%-of Gaara pairings are crack, excluding GaaNaru. I think that that's the most plausible and possible Gaara couple, I really do, even if I'm not very much into that couple myself). But... crack is just so much fun and the randomness of it (although some pairings just make me twitch--ShikaTsu, for example) makes it hopelessly entertaining. Especially if the two involved are handled just right. If it's way too OOC then it's just stupid. I think that a lot of NejiGaa, NejiLee/NejiShika, or GaaLee fics are like that. People tend to get the ones involved in those couples as being way too... clingy and sentimental. Ehh... But I heart crack. It's one of the elements that keeps my world spinning on its axis (among SasuNaru/NaruSasu, a few other BL couples, potatoes, vanilla ice cream, fanfiction, Gaia, sleep... Uhh... yeah... sweatdrop )

And... well... I actually love Naruto's voice. Well, I love his original Japanese voice. The dub is grating and annoying and "Believe it!" makes me gag. But my mom and I both agree that Naruto's voice is just so awesome and... well... it makes him seem more real because it conveys his emotions just as much as his facial expressions do.

I like seme/uke; I think that it places some balance on a relationship... but sometimes fans just take it too far. I think that, especially in BL, the pair should be pretty versatile and be able to switch positions in the relationship. I mean, in het, women can be as strong as men and should be able to defend a guy if he needs it. If you go on Wikipedia and research seme and uke, it says that a lot of people don't like it because it reflects the old belief that one person in the relationship is lower or kind of subject (the woman) to the dominant (the man, obviously), and sometimes I do agree. Fans nowadays are really bringing that ideal into a situation where it really doesn't make much sense. I mean, if it's two guys I think that they'd still have their "male pride" and, like Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry, would want to be more dominant than the other in their relationship. That's when the fun of seme and uke comes in. Everything is so much more interesting when the two guys are duking it out to be the dominant. When the couple is put into automatic roles and can't have any versatility it ruins seme/uke. ~shrugs~ I feel like I'm babbling, and that rant didn't really make much sense to me. Did you guys understand it?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:05 am


Uchimaki Yuuzora
And... well... I actually love Naruto's voice. Well, I love his original Japanese voice. The dub is grating and annoying and "Believe it!" makes me gag. But my mom and I both agree that Naruto's voice is just so awesome and... well... it makes him seem more real because it conveys his emotions just as much as his facial expressions do.


Oh, no, I LOVE Naruto's Japanese voice. I was into the manga long before I saw the anime, and when I finally saw the anime, I had to call my stepmom in to listen to Naruto's voice, because I thought it was so adorable and suited him so well. My point was just that it DOES have this sort of grating quality to it. Maybe grating isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. Yes, a woman does his voice, but she does it in a very boy-ish way. As I said, it suits his boy-ish personality very well.

Uchimaki Yuuzora
I like seme/uke; I think that it places some balance on a relationship... but sometimes fans just take it too far. I think that, especially in BL, the pair should be pretty versatile and be able to switch positions in the relationship. I mean, in het, women can be as strong as men and should be able to defend a guy if he needs it. If you go on Wikipedia and research seme and uke, it says that a lot of people don't like it because it reflects the old belief that one person in the relationship is lower or kind of subject (the woman) to the dominant (the man, obviously), and sometimes I do agree. Fans nowadays are really bringing that ideal into a situation where it really doesn't make much sense. I mean, if it's two guys I think that they'd still have their "male pride" and, like Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry, would want to be more dominant than the other in their relationship. That's when the fun of seme and uke comes in. Everything is so much more interesting when the two guys are duking it out to be the dominant. When the couple is put into automatic roles and can't have any versatility it ruins seme/uke. ~shrugs~ I feel like I'm babbling, and that rant didn't really make much sense to me. Did you guys understand it?


xD Yes, I understand, and I definitely agree. My problem isn't really with Naruto being uke, because when it comes right down to it, uke is simply one's position during sex. My real problem is what the uke!Naruto fans do to his character a lot of the time. I mean... have you ever noticed that in a lot of SasuNaru fanart, Naruto's usually spikey hair is suddenly flat, and his eyes are suddenly much larger than normal, and he's managed to get a lot thinner than he is canonly? Then, aside from those physical changes that they make to him, they MURDER his character, which is even worse, in my opinion. He acts like a GIRL in a lot of the fanfiction, which is just not right. And it's gotten to the point that people don't notice anymore, because it's so common. They consider it in-character. And if you kindly try to point out in a review that Naruto is OOC, they either flame you, or act like you're stupid.

Chieira
Crew


Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:42 am


Chieira
Uchimaki Yuuzora
And... well... I actually love Naruto's voice. Well, I love his original Japanese voice. The dub is grating and annoying and "Believe it!" makes me gag. But my mom and I both agree that Naruto's voice is just so awesome and... well... it makes him seem more real because it conveys his emotions just as much as his facial expressions do.


Oh, no, I LOVE Naruto's Japanese voice. I was into the manga long before I saw the anime, and when I finally saw the anime, I had to call my stepmom in to listen to Naruto's voice, because I thought it was so adorable and suited him so well. My point was just that it DOES have this sort of grating quality to it. Maybe grating isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. Yes, a woman does his voice, but she does it in a very boy-ish way. As I said, it suits his boy-ish personality very well.

Uchimaki Yuuzora
I like seme/uke; I think that it places some balance on a relationship... but sometimes fans just take it too far. I think that, especially in BL, the pair should be pretty versatile and be able to switch positions in the relationship. I mean, in het, women can be as strong as men and should be able to defend a guy if he needs it. If you go on Wikipedia and research seme and uke, it says that a lot of people don't like it because it reflects the old belief that one person in the relationship is lower or kind of subject (the woman) to the dominant (the man, obviously), and sometimes I do agree. Fans nowadays are really bringing that ideal into a situation where it really doesn't make much sense. I mean, if it's two guys I think that they'd still have their "male pride" and, like Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry, would want to be more dominant than the other in their relationship. That's when the fun of seme and uke comes in. Everything is so much more interesting when the two guys are duking it out to be the dominant. When the couple is put into automatic roles and can't have any versatility it ruins seme/uke. ~shrugs~ I feel like I'm babbling, and that rant didn't really make much sense to me. Did you guys understand it?


xD Yes, I understand, and I definitely agree. My problem isn't really with Naruto being uke, because when it comes right down to it, uke is simply one's position during sex. My real problem is what the uke!Naruto fans do to his character a lot of the time. I mean... have you ever noticed that in a lot of SasuNaru fanart, Naruto's usually spikey hair is suddenly flat, and his eyes are suddenly much larger than normal, and he's managed to get a lot thinner than he is canonly? Then, aside from those physical changes that they make to him, they MURDER his character, which is even worse, in my opinion. He acts like a GIRL in a lot of the fanfiction, which is just not right. And it's gotten to the point that people don't notice anymore, because it's so common. They consider it in-character. And if you kindly try to point out in a review that Naruto is OOC, they either flame you, or act like you're stupid.


That is so true. After the fillers came out I stopped watching Naruto and I got used to Uke Naruto (again because it's everywhere) then I decided to watch the show again and I was like "Now THAT is Naruto 3nodding " That's our crazy kid who can put a resengan in your face if you mess with him. He is not someone who is weak or needs to be pretected.

I think even more than Naruto, Gaara's personality gets butchered. He's not an emotional character. He dosen't talk much. And he has maybe three facial expressions that he's capable of (blank stare, creepy grin, and anything else fits in the miscelaneous category). He is very hard to relate to, but he SUPPOSED to be hard to relate to. It is near impossible to find good Gaara fanfiction, because people have either made him a guy with normal emotions just like everyone else, or he is some creepy posessive stalker type...I even read one where he was sold into prostitution. (It made me sick scream ) I mean C'mon...this is Sabaku No Gaara, Kakekage of the hidden sand, and they made it so Lee was the one who drugged him, because he was the only one fast enough, which is a sickening discredit to Lee's character too scream ...I can see Deidara having his way with him while he's unconcious maybe...but other than that there is absolutly no way anyone could force Gaara to do anything.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:33 pm


King_Cicero_IV
That is so true. After the fillers came out I stopped watching Naruto and I got used to Uke Naruto (again because it's everywhere) then I decided to watch the show again and I was like "Now THAT is Naruto 3nodding " That's our crazy kid who can put a resengan in your face if you mess with him. He is not someone who is weak or needs to be pretected.

I think even more than Naruto, Gaara's personality gets butchered. He's not an emotional character. He dosen't talk much. And he has maybe three facial expressions that he's capable of (blank stare, creepy grin, and anything else fits in the miscelaneous category). He is very hard to relate to, but he SUPPOSED to be hard to relate to. It is near impossible to find good Gaara fanfiction, because people have either made him a guy with normal emotions just like everyone else, or he is some creepy posessive stalker type...I even read one where he was sold into prostitution. (It made me sick scream ) I mean C'mon...this is Sabaku No Gaara, Kakekage of the hidden sand, and they made it so Lee was the one who drugged him, because he was the only one fast enough, which is a sickening discredit to Lee's character too scream ...I can see Deidara having his way with him while he's unconcious maybe...but other than that there is absolutly no way anyone could force Gaara to do anything.


Exactly! Naruto is perfectly capable of taking care of himself. He's NOT a girl, and that's part of what I love about his character. I guess that's why I get so upset when people change it so much, because I love Naruto the way that he IS, and to me it's horrible to change him into something else.

And I don't read much Gaara fanfiction, but I imagine his character is butchered a lot. I think that a lot of the time, writers probably purposely change his character, because his real personality is so hard to work with, especially in a romance setting. Gaara's just not really the type to 'fall in love.' Or if he did, he wouldn't be obvious about it, and we know fanfic writers think THAT'S no fun ^^; But it's no excuse to ruin his character. That's why I like the GaaLee fic Diplomatic Relations so much. The author manages to get Gaara and Lee together while still keeping Gaara in character, which, after reading that fic, I realized must have been REALLY hard to do.

Chieira
Crew


Ciceros_Cupcake_Republic

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:37 pm


Chieira
King_Cicero_IV
That is so true. After the fillers came out I stopped watching Naruto and I got used to Uke Naruto (again because it's everywhere) then I decided to watch the show again and I was like "Now THAT is Naruto 3nodding " That's our crazy kid who can put a resengan in your face if you mess with him. He is not someone who is weak or needs to be pretected.

I think even more than Naruto, Gaara's personality gets butchered. He's not an emotional character. He dosen't talk much. And he has maybe three facial expressions that he's capable of (blank stare, creepy grin, and anything else fits in the miscelaneous category). He is very hard to relate to, but he SUPPOSED to be hard to relate to. It is near impossible to find good Gaara fanfiction, because people have either made him a guy with normal emotions just like everyone else, or he is some creepy posessive stalker type...I even read one where he was sold into prostitution. (It made me sick scream ) I mean C'mon...this is Sabaku No Gaara, Kakekage of the hidden sand, and they made it so Lee was the one who drugged him, because he was the only one fast enough, which is a sickening discredit to Lee's character too scream ...I can see Deidara having his way with him while he's unconcious maybe...but other than that there is absolutly no way anyone could force Gaara to do anything.


Exactly! Naruto is perfectly capable of taking care of himself. He's NOT a girl, and that's part of what I love about his character. I guess that's why I get so upset when people change it so much, because I love Naruto the way that he IS, and to me it's horrible to change him into something else.

And I don't read much Gaara fanfiction, but I imagine his character is butchered a lot. I think that a lot of the time, writers probably purposely change his character, because his real personality is so hard to work with, especially in a romance setting. Gaara's just not really the type to 'fall in love.' Or if he did, he wouldn't be obvious about it, and we know fanfic writers think THAT'S no fun ^^; But it's no excuse to ruin his character. That's why I like the GaaLee fic Diplomatic Relations so much. The author manages to get Gaara and Lee together while still keeping Gaara in character, which, after reading that fic, I realized must have been REALLY hard to do.


I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to mention that fic if the conversation ever turned to GaaLee. I thought it was very well written though I haven't read all of it. I didn't agree with the part where Gaara became really posessive of Lee because I don't think he would do that and I think he has more control over his sanity than he is often given credit for...but again that is just my point of view and compleatly debatable. Something like a relationship just may make a relativley stable minded Gaara bring up past conflicts. The author of Diplomatic Relations must have put a lot of thought into her fic, which most people don't do because they just want to get to the smutty part.

I've tried writing GaaraNaru fiction and I found that smut and something meaningful just don't go hand in hand. That's why I havent put any fanfiction online yet because I want it to be origional, in character, and still be entertaining and sexy. And that takes time. Hopefully I'll have something up in the near future. sweatdrop All I have now is that dumb crackfic...which I must admit is pretty damn funny (There's even a part two where Gaara shows up with all his Akatsuki babies...Well there I go killing my arguement about keeping Gaara in character sweatdrop )
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