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Who stronger and how! |
Brolly |
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42% |
[ 6 ] |
Kid Buu |
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42% |
[ 6 ] |
Thats a hard one I dont know. |
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14% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 14 |
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:25 am
Could we use fair judgement here? We are all well qualified "Z experts" here. And I think that by using educated guesses, we could pin down their strengths. My only beef with that is: Why didn't THEY stop Buu? If they were stronger than Goku, then they could easily take out the Fat form. (I speculate as such anyways) I think that it is an unfair assessment. We know Broly CAN do it. We have even seen him do it. BUT if you insist on not acknowledging that fact, to further the debate, then it is still unfair. We know Goku can jump rope, yet we haven't seen him do it, so do we say: No, Goku cannot jump rope, because we have never seen him do it? I think that line of thinking could get really old, really fast. (When substituting useful feats)
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:12 am
@Kamikaze: Whaaaat?? D= Nuuuuu!!!! ::falls into giant swirling abyss:: ...the're always ******** up translations and changing names...retards. > <;;
@Veggie: Incorrect yet again...for most of movie #10, yes, Brolly was using his SSJ form - or a calmed LSSJ, as Deity'd rather consider it. Shortly after Gohan appears tho', he very clearly transforms into his full LSSJ form. He does, go look. You can tell simply from a screenshot, or you can watch it and see it move and say,"Kakarotto," a whole lot. It's very plainly visible. See? ::point:: LSSJ. They even used an identical shot to what was used in #8 when he transformed...so, no.
That was LSSJ. Your theory was just proven incorrect by actual evidence. You've yet to prove how the Brolly that appears in movie #10 is somehow different than the one that appears in movie #8...which would be the only reason he suddenly forgot how to do his bubble-o-death that he has been using since the day he was born, only to recall how it works two movies later when surrounded by liquid hot magma[/Dr.Evil]. Until then, what you're saying has no grounds for debate...
...they're the same person, and that technique was used on his first day of existence, and on his last day of existence. =P It is a move that he either a) knows how to do, thus shooting your 'he can't do it' idea in the face with a bazooka, or b) does automatically in a reflexive response to certain death, which shoots your 'he'd get absorbed' idea in the face with a bazooka.
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Well, considering East Kaioshin didn't even remember the Dai Kaioshin we see in the Buu saga - who was stated to be from several generations ago - the Zed Sword must've been there throughout his role as Kaioshin (along with those of his now-fallen comrades). Thus, we can assume they all saw it, knew of it, and possibly[/keyword] tried to remove it from the mountain. Specifically Southern Kaioshin, being th'strongest...he obviously couldn't budge it, if he did try it. That in itself could be good evidence toward Gohan - and thus, the other Saiya-jin - being much greater than any of the Kaioshin. That's just an idea, tho'...one can't say it happened and go by that as fact.
...well, if you wanna get technical, it's not 50/50. It's a 2/9 chance Buu would attempt an absorption...seeing as we see/hear about Chibi Buu fighting - in total - nine people, and he only even attempted absorbing two, the chances aren't as great as 50%.
Rikeen already stated it...if one or more Kaioshin were stronger than Son, they would have defeated Buu, or Kaioshin would have at least mentioned that they could have/nearly won. Simple. Especially considering it's Son we're talking about...if Southern Kaioshin was stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Son, he would've been able to put up some sort of fight, especially when teamed with the other four Kaioshin. He just got absorbed...he was a wimp.
@Rikeen: Technically, by th'time Fat Buu appeared, the only Kaioshin left was East Kaioshin, who was badly injured....so, no. They had just Chibi Buu to contend with until he absorbed the two Kaioshin.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:10 pm
@ Deity: I just watched movie #8, and looked for instances of Broly using a ki orb. As vague as they were, it was done. Therefore, I withdraw my comment about him not using the ki orb against Buu.
However, when he did use it, the purpose was to charge into Goku and slam the orb against him. Therefore, he used it for offense purposes, and not defense purposes. Only in movie #10 is it used for defense.
And for the record, physical strength compared to power doesn't work. South Kaioshin could have possessed more ki than Gohan, yet Gohan could have been physically stronger. However, none of this can be proven. Thus, this comparison will lead only to a debate of opinions, which proves nothing, as we've learned before.
Now, again, you're disregarding facts. The most important one of all. In this fight, it is strictly Kid Buu versus Broly. There isn't going to be any other opponent around. You're basing that 2/9 on when he fought the Z Fighters. Problem: There ain't no Z Fighters in this battle, let alone more than one opponent.
Therefore, we have to even out 2/9 (Z Fighters = 18%) and 2/4 (Kaioshins = 50%). The result is 34%, being the probability that Kid Buu will attempt an absorption on Broly. To be honest, I'd consider the real percentage to be higher, seeing as Broly is the only one to absorb. That is only my opinion, though.
Also, just for my own knowledge, who in total are the 9 people that Kid Buu had a chance to absorb?
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:33 pm
Um, have we seen Kid Buu absorb people? I am not sure, but I didn't think so.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:47 pm
@Veggie's Point #1: That makes sense...yeah, Deity remembers that part. ::nodnod::
@Veggie's Point #2: Yupyup again.
@Veggie's Point #3: Well, considering most of the time more ki = more strength in Dragon Ball, Deity'd only guess that a more physically powerful opponent would have more ki at their disposal - how they conserved/used it overall is another story...South Kaioshin could be arguably a better fighter than Gohan, though Deity sees no reason why he'd be stronger otherwise.
...but debates like that just go on forever, as they're based chiefly around what someone prefers. Let's not... = =;
@Veggie's Question: Th'nine people Chibi Buu battled in total are as follows:
South Kaioshin North Kaioshin West Kaioshin East Kaioshin Dai Kaioshin Mr. Satan Mr. Buu Vegeta Son
...did Deity miss anyone?
...he actually did battle with each of them, even Mr. Satan, though he was distracted and pulled away by a more powerful opponent (Mr. Buu). He attempted two absorptions, and succeeded both times. So, two out of nine opponents were absorbed. Work that problem out for a percentage...it's actually around a 22% chance of Chibi Buu absorbing Brolly.
@Rikeen: It's been established that Chibi Buu can absorb people...we're just trying to figure the probablity that he may attempt absorbing Brolly.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:04 pm
Again, that probablility would be his odds of winning? If so, then I think that it is a close one for Broly. Then again, that is my opinion only.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:10 pm
Oh, no no...both of them have the ability to kill the other normally. A large/powerful enough attack from Brolly could wipe out Buu, and th'same can be said for Buu wiping out Brolly. However, Veggie has suggested that there's a big chance that Buu would absorb him...that doesn't seem so likely, but if he did (and Brolly did not in one way or another escape/counter) Buu would win. So there is a 22% chance that Chibi Buu will attempt to absorb Brolly.... =P
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:14 pm
rikeen90 Um, have we seen Kid Buu absorb people? I am not sure, but I didn't think so. Refer to my manga scan a few pages back.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:25 pm
@ Deity: That list seems about right. Can't think of anyone else. Except the fact that he never encountered East Kaioshin in the present day, nor did he know he was there when absorbing Dai and South. Therefore, he has to be removed from the list. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And also, would Kid Buu really want to re-absorb Mr. Buu after just losing him and becoming more powerful? He's got to know his own power, and know that [[loss of Mr. Buu = more power]]. It's a simple equation that I'm sure even our crazy friend Kid Buu could figure out.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:47 pm
@Veggie: ...ahh...good point on Mr. Buu...must've slipped Deity's mind. That Buu really shouldn't be included on account of Chibi Buu not wanting to absorb him.
Gotta disagree on East Kaioshin, tho'....he clearly did battle (likely with Chibi Buu), and managed to hide away from Fat Buu, maybe feigning death. You can even see in your scan how he's been bloodied up a lot and is in a 's**t, this hurts' sort of posture.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:58 pm
The Fierce Deity @Veggie: ...ahh...good point on Mr. Buu...must've slipped Deity's mind. That Buu really shouldn't be included on account of Chibi Buu not wanting to absorb him.
Gotta disagree on East Kaioshin, tho'....he clearly did battle (likely with Chibi Buu), and managed to hide away from Fat Buu, maybe feigning death. You can even see in your scan how he's been bloodied up a lot and is in a 's**t, this hurts' sort of posture. That came from when Buu was release by Babidi if I'm not mistaken.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:23 pm
The Fierce Deity @Veggie: ...ahh...good point on Mr. Buu...must've slipped Deity's mind. That Buu really shouldn't be included on account of Chibi Buu not wanting to absorb him.
Gotta disagree on East Kaioshin, tho'....he clearly did battle (likely with Chibi Buu), and managed to hide away from Fat Buu, maybe feigning death. You can even see in your scan how he's been bloodied up a lot and is in a 's**t, this hurts' sort of posture. Alright, I've got to agree with the East Kaioshin part. Checked back to the scan and he says something like "somehow I survived, though with great injuries". So that leaves us with 8 people, and Buu absorbing 2 of them. 2/8 (1/4) = 25% chance that Buu will attempt an absorption on Broly. Overall, I'd have to give the fight to Kid Buu just because of that 25%. Considering how the fight could go either way without the factor of absorption, it makes all the difference. The match is pretty much considered a tie - considering that neither fighter can be proven over the other - without that 25% absorption chance.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:59 pm
It's possibly that Buu didn't absorb Goku and company because he rembered that absorbing things had ended up screwing him over the first time(tough to be honest I thonk even that is to much of a thought prosses for chibi Buu). If such is the case, it bears the question is this Chibi Buu the before or during his fight with the Supreem Kai's, or later when he fought Goku?
Also note that Brolly and Vagetto have diffrent barriers, Brolly's is bubble like, whist Vagetto's is tight fitting, almost arura like. Not sure it makes a diffrence, just throwing that out there.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:42 pm
Kamikazek-Z It's possibly that Buu didn't absorb Goku and company because he rembered that absorbing things had ended up screwing him over the first time(tough to be honest I thonk even that is to much of a thought prosses for chibi Buu). If such is the case, it bears the question is this Chibi Buu the before or during his fight with the Supreem Kai's, or later when he fought Goku? Also note that Brolly and Vagetto have diffrent barriers, Brolly's is bubble like, whist Vagetto's is tight fitting, almost arura like. Not sure it makes a diffrence, just throwing that out there. We are using the Buu in present day. And yes, that is a very good point about Kid Buu possibly remembering how bad things went the last time he absorbed people. It would be as simple as remembering two words [[absorbing = bad]]. I'm sure Buu could remember something along those lines. Still, not much can be proven from that.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:48 am
As with many debates, Deity thinks we've boiled this one all th'way down to:
"Meh...may the best baddie win."
....there are points in Chibi Buu's favor, and points in Brolly's favor. It's simply a matter of how you want the battle to play out...like an alternate ending to a fighting game story mode. =P
@Kami: Brolly's shield and Vegetto's shield are different in that Vegetto's was skin-tight, and Brolly's acted as a hard barrier. . =;; That said, he wouldn't be able to avoid direct absorption with it (being shrunk and moved inside Buu, but not being absorbed), but Chibi Buu would fail said absorption if it was up: the gooey slab of Buu couldn't get to Brolly to try.
@Both o'ya': Interesting idea, Buu hesitating on absorbing Brolly....he might do that, might not. But each time Chibi Buu absorbed someone, it turned out badly, which is likely why he never tried it again. Again, it depends on how you see th'fight going...
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