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 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:07 pm
Manic Martini The worst Jeigan is definitely NOT FE6 Marcus who can pull his weight for a very substantial amount of time. He might not be the worst in the series as a whole, but he's the worst out of the games I've played. As I've said before, I refuse to vote for anything in a game I haven't yet played (which, at this moment, includes every FE game before FE6). Even looking up stats/growths, I wouldn't be able to put those numbers to how they would work in the game if I haven't experienced it myself. (Note: I am trying to play all the games, but I'm super-ultra paranoid about downloading stuff from the net, so it'll probably take me a while.)
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:21 pm
They are different, but they aren't that different. It's mostly RNG that differs majorly between games. Plus, you can look up growths of other characters from respective games to get a sense of context.
Arran and Jeigan's 10% growths can't possibly be overlooked even if you haven't played. And by what you've said, you've played 11, which means you must know of Jagen's piss poor, albeit better than his original, growths and stats.
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm
So it's the best/worst Oifaye and Jeigan. Alrighty, sounds fun~
Best: Well, obviously I'm gonna have to go with Seth for this one. His stats and growths are just too good. I was deciding between whether to go with Titania for this, though I really do love her as a character and of course unit.(The Rhys and Titania conversation is still my favorite. Though, I like all of them. XD) Seth just does things better than her. FD already went into great depth about Seth in another thread, so I'll just leave it at that. Seth is awesome! Nuff said.
Worst: Now for this one, I originally was about to say FE6 Marcus for the worst. And it's true his growths are terrible and his stats isn't very good. Though, to be fair he can be useful in hard mode at least of that I know of so far... But as I thought about it some more, I really think that Arran is much worse. And I do mean FE3's version of Arran. And yes... Those 10% growths really do hurt him. The thing is in FE3 the way the stats worked in that game were different than how it is in the other games. The maximum stat a unit could cap is only up to 20.
In the beginning chapters there are actually some things that can be useful about him. Like in the chapter where you recruit Warren, there's tons of Dracoknights everywhere so he can be somewhat helpful to fight them off with that Silver Lance of his.. But really after that you're more than likely to ditch him, since he's outclassed very easily by other good units like Rody, Luke, Cecil(Absolutely loved her), Abel, Sirius, Cain... The list goes on.
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:02 pm
Nomad Rath They are different, but they aren't that different. It's mostly RNG that differs majorly between games. Plus, you can look up growths of other characters from respective games to get a sense of context. Arran and Jeigan's 10% growths can't possibly be overlooked even if you haven't played. And by what you've said, you've played 11, which means you must know of Jagen's piss poor, albeit better than his original, growths and stats. That seems like a lot of leg work for an opinion poll. This... is an opinion poll... right? I also found a use for Jagen in FE11. He's the one I always sacrifice because I usually want to level up Frey. (And I just really don't like having my Jeigans soak EXP that other units need.) I haven't played that game in a while, but I remember using Frey a lot.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:56 am
Grimalkenkid Nomad Rath They are different, but they aren't that different. It's mostly RNG that differs majorly between games. Plus, you can look up growths of other characters from respective games to get a sense of context. Arran and Jeigan's 10% growths can't possibly be overlooked even if you haven't played. And by what you've said, you've played 11, which means you must know of Jagen's piss poor, albeit better than his original, growths and stats. That seems like a lot of leg work for an opinion poll. This... is an opinion poll... right? I also found a use for Jagen in FE11. He's the one I always sacrifice because I usually want to level up Frey. (And I just really don't like having my Jeigans soak EXP that other units need.) I haven't played that game in a while, but I remember using Frey a lot.
On the other hand, Rath and FD I've gotten a complaint about the two of you going into analysis mode on picks that might not seem to really be out there picks (Though I'm surprised you didn't do that for my Hector for best lord pick last week.) I do ask if you please tone it down just a little bit.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:32 am
Queen Melethia Dagon Grimalkenkid Nomad Rath They are different, but they aren't that different. It's mostly RNG that differs majorly between games. Plus, you can look up growths of other characters from respective games to get a sense of context. Arran and Jeigan's 10% growths can't possibly be overlooked even if you haven't played. And by what you've said, you've played 11, which means you must know of Jagen's piss poor, albeit better than his original, growths and stats. That seems like a lot of leg work for an opinion poll. This... is an opinion poll... right? I also found a use for Jagen in FE11. He's the one I always sacrifice because I usually want to level up Frey. (And I just really don't like having my Jeigans soak EXP that other units need.) I haven't played that game in a while, but I remember using Frey a lot.
On the other hand, Rath and FD I've gotten a complaint about the two of you going into analysis mode on picks that might not seem to really be out there picks (Though I'm surprised you didn't do that for my Hector for best lord pick last week.) I do ask if you please tone it down just a little bit.Okay. That's good to know. Thanks. biggrin
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:18 pm
I take offense, actually. I'm engaging in discussion, which I thought was one of the purposes of this thread.
If FD disagreed with one of my choices, I would defend it logically as I am sure he would also do. Suffice it to say, I generally think anybody who has a choice different from mine is wrong, as does everyone; that's how opinions work. (Though there are subjects that are purely subjective, so answers different from mine are expected and understandable) I will publicly question why the choice was made, or question one of the reasons for the choice, but I will never try to make somebody change their stance.
I have to question why people are feeling bad or mad about discussion that is purely objective. There's plenty that I could have brought up in here about choices, but I've only talked about the questionable ones. Plus, we're expected to be able to back up our reasoning anyway. If people don't want to do that, why participate? If it's not a personal complaint and the person just doesn't like reading our posts, then don't read them.
I'll try inhibiting myself a little, I suppose, if people are going to stop participating if I don't, but I'm not really understanding.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:39 pm
Nomad Rath I take offense, actually. I'm engaging in discussion, which I thought was one of the purposes of this thread. If FD disagreed with one of my choices, I would defend it logically as I am sure he would also do. Suffice it to say, I generally think anybody who has a choice different from mine is wrong, as does everyone; that's how opinions work. (Though there are subjects that are purely subjective, so answers different from mine are expected and understandable) I will publicly question why the choice was made, or question one of the reasons for the choice, but I will never try to make somebody change their stance. I have to question why people are feeling bad or mad about discussion that is purely objective. There's plenty that I could have brought up in here about choices, but I've only talked about the questionable ones. Plus, we're expected to be able to back up our reasoning anyway. If people don't want to do that, why participate? If it's not a personal complaint and the person just doesn't like reading our posts, then don't read them. I'll try inhibiting myself a little, I suppose, if people are going to stop participating if I don't, but I'm not really understanding.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:00 pm
Best Jeigans huh? WELL NOT TO BE TOO BIASED....
Best: Seth. Hits like a truck for the whole game, can solo the game, and is pretty much one of the best units. Ever. Period.
Worst: FE3!Arran. Let me count the ways....craptacular growths, outclassed by just about everybody, and he's just plain...weird.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:03 pm
The way I feel about people only considering a very small number of games for their votes is similar to how Rath felt about Joshua Kieran voting FE13 as Best in the series. But I'm not at all going to push that or complain about that because I AM very happy that people are participating.
If say… someone votes a person OTHER than Arden for worst Knight though, for example (most obvious example I could think of right now), or some other particularly disagreeable thing, I'll want to point it out. This is an opinion thread, but it's one with content that can be measured objectively very often (and sometimes more subjectively than objectively, but that too can lead into discussion of what metrics people are using for their opinions which can be interesting). And as such, there are such things as comparatively bad opinions. "I liked this unit" and "I've never liked this unit" does not a strong argument make.
I also love when this thread generates discussion instead of people just putting their votes and it ending at that. I find the discussions have the potential to be both enjoyable and potentially enlightening. If there's an opinion someone either enthusiastically agrees with or disagrees with, why not respond to it? Tiki bringing up Sirius and all the sirius puns siriusly impacted the course of this round, I think, and am happy about it. Siriusly, I am.
Even less extreme votes can generate interesting discussion. I remember in the original thread of this, Rath's vote for best/worst Cavalier/Paladin/GK was something I agreed and disagreed with. I thought his choices for best was indeed very good and choice for worst was indeed bad, but didn't think they were the absolute best and worst, and I responded to it to articulate that.
I really hope everyone continues to participate in this thread without taking offense when people disagree with anyone's choices. Because if your choice is different with anyone else's, it means you disagree with them, too on some level.
Also, 100,000 miles was a bit of a strech, because FE9 Titania IS pretty damn awesome. But I do think Seth has it in the bag in ways Titania doesn't. Does anyone know if a Titania solo is possible? I'm very curious now.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:17 pm
I wish I could include all the FE games in my votes, but about half of those games were never released in America, so I'm only just now getting around to playing them. I still want to participate in this thread, though, so I'll draw on the knowledge of the games I have played. If I did include games I haven't played, then my opinion would be heavily swayed by what people already said about the topic. Someone here already made an argument for why basing a vote on hearsay is unfair, so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Queen Melethia Dagon Just trying to make people not mad here Rath. It is going both ways. I'm trying to make people happy, but they do know that choices that seem a little out there might get questioned. It's really making me mad that I can't seem to make people happy. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ I'm really sorry if I started (or encouraged) any drama in this thread. I'm actually having a lot of fun. It's really interesting seeing why people choose what they do.
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:33 pm
No drama on my end. I like when discussions form. I don't always agree with what people say, but it provides a different view and maybe things i hadn't considered before. If people are looking at what I'm saying and taking it as me being insulting, it wouldn't be the first time. but I'm not intending to be.
As for my argument about hearsay, I also noted that certain topics such as ones that depend on growths and average stats, things that are objective and can be looked up, don't apply to the need of first hand experience. But then again, you may have to play the game in order to see how useful a unit is in comparison to another. For instance, this topic; comparing Jeigans. So, I'll be understanding of people avoiding voting for characters in games they haven't played yet. After all, the first time we had this topic, I hadn't played FE4, and so I avoided it.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:01 am
Hey guys so far we've had quite clear decisions on winners and losers here lets see how things go in later rounds.
This weeks topic is: (Armor) Knight/General (Their starting class MUST be a (Armor) Knight/General/ in order to qualify the vote). Make sure to check out the first post to see who I voted for. See how your vote matches up to mine.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:14 am
Best: Gatrie. (FE 9)
Worst: Meg.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:47 am
Casting our votes in since we were too lazy to before....
Also, can we consider Amelia for best knight/general? I know she starts out as a different class, but she's really a badass general in the end if you choose her to have that class, anyway. If not, that's cool, I have someone else in mind, anyway.
Best Armor/Knight person for me? I'd probably have to agree with Legault there with FE9!Gatrie. I tend to have uber-problems with armored/knight units so I tend not to use them, however this was not the case in FE9 and I found him entirely useful.
Worst? Hmm... Bors from FE6. This guy...THIS GUY. Ohhhh how many times did I have to reset because this guy would totally fail and die. -_-;; But that's just my opinion.
Gotta say...armored knights and generals aren't really my type of unit, either... But, yeah, gonna agree with Mandi with Gatrie. Definitely most useful in terms of the other units in our opinion. Worst? Hmm...
Well considering we just booted up our Shadow Dragon file, my vote for worst is probably gonna go to Draug. We had incredible problems with keeping him alive and more often than not, his growth rates were incredibly unspectacular. Anyway,here is our most (un)humble opinion. xDD
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