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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:55 pm
The way I see it, there's good pain and bad pain. Good pain teaches you a lesson, helps you become a better person, etc. God Himself did put people through suffering or allowed them to suffer, and through it those people ended up in amazing places, a better person, etc.
As for evil? I don't believe God created it. He gave free will, and thus evil was able to come forth. I'm pretty certain Lucifer had free will.
We are well aware that God is supposed to know the future. So yes, He had to have known evil would come forth. My guess is He really just wants people to make the choices themselves and be a good person because they want to, not because He makes them.
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Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:57 pm
MurrieGee In the bible it says God created all things and it was good. I agree with one person who says things that God created have been used to evil, as in sex. Which is the first example that pops in my mind. I look around at the world and see all the things that humans created themselves because they took sex out of concept. Lawyers, adoptions, custody of children, abortion . Things that if people waited until marraige to have sex would not even exist. Another thing is death. Now there's a whole lot more ways to die than just 'natural causes' . Things like murder, suicide, homocide are just absurd to me. I just want to say, that's not entirely true. Plenty of women that are married have abortions.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:49 pm
violette lumineux MurrieGee In the bible it says God created all things and it was good. I agree with one person who says things that God created have been used to evil, as in sex. Which is the first example that pops in my mind. I look around at the world and see all the things that humans created themselves because they took sex out of concept. Lawyers, adoptions, custody of children, abortion . Things that if people waited until marraige to have sex would not even exist. Another thing is death. Now there's a whole lot more ways to die than just 'natural causes' . Things like murder, suicide, homocide are just absurd to me. I just want to say, that's not entirely true. Plenty of women that are married have abortions. Well I guess IF they decide to keep the baby or not is the husband and wifes decision. I never thought it through that some married couples would have sex knowing what could happen and then decide to not keep the baby. But other than that I guess I was thinking about abortion more along the lines of a teenager getting knocked up and not keeping the baby. In that context then the teenager should never have had sex in the first place.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:14 pm
MurrieGee violette lumineux MurrieGee In the bible it says God created all things and it was good. I agree with one person who says things that God created have been used to evil, as in sex. Which is the first example that pops in my mind. I look around at the world and see all the things that humans created themselves because they took sex out of concept. Lawyers, adoptions, custody of children, abortion . Things that if people waited until marraige to have sex would not even exist. Another thing is death. Now there's a whole lot more ways to die than just 'natural causes' . Things like murder, suicide, homocide are just absurd to me. I just want to say, that's not entirely true. Plenty of women that are married have abortions. Well I guess IF they decide to keep the baby or not is the husband and wifes decision. I never thought it through that some married couples would have sex knowing what could happen and then decide to not keep the baby. But other than that I guess I was thinking about abortion more along the lines of a teenager getting knocked up and not keeping the baby. In that context then the teenager should never have had sex in the first place. To be fair, that's how it's usually presented.
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Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:20 pm
I believe Yahweh created Evil,but not for the purpose of torment,but as the purpose to teach.
There is Good,but how can we know Good without evil,one can not truely understand good without the negitive side right,to see that good is really the brighter & more blessful side.
its kinda like you don't really know what love is untill you have experienced hate.but this is just my opinon xD.
In some cases i believe he let everything happen,Satan,humans fall,for something better,like maybe he is making more Gods,that have proven they are worthy,but thats a theory xD idk its morning and im tired xD
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:12 pm
I don't believe he created evil... but look at this...
God is Good, correct? If something is 'good' then there is something that is 'evil' or 'bad' you know?
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:02 pm
John 1:3 Quote: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Isaiah 45:7 Quote: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. [EDIT] Looking back, I think that rmcdra mentioned this. Sorry. Just a thought. Anon. Mosh
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:15 pm
This is a really interesting question. I believe God created evil as a way to test his children to see who really loves him, who would be the ones to inherit what he has in store for us. By setting the boundaries he set apart that which he created. He gave free will to us his children to see what we would do with ourselves, to see who are the loyal children and who are the ones that will abuse the power he gave to them. By creating both he gives us the ability to see that He is truly good and knows what is best. I totally agree with the idea that without darkness or being presented with darkness, one can not determine or truly know what is light. Go your whole life only seeing red and being taught what red is then one day you wake up and blue is visible to you. You don't know that it is a color, you don't know what it is called, the nature of the thing that has this color on it, you are unaware fully of what you are seeing! Good and evil are like this to me. If God put us in a place of perfect good and never set a boundary, then when we find something that god abhors and hates, we never learn about it and god would wipe us from existence. His love gives us free will and knowledge to know these things so we can choose to have a loving relationship with him or we can choose to ignore the boundaries and accept not being in his will. heart heart heart
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:25 am
I believe God did not create evil. I support the belief that God created Lucifer, and Lucifer got jealous of the attention God gave to Jesus. He wanted to be as powerful and divine as God. This turned him corrupted, and the start of a war between good and evil.
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:57 pm
Mynolis I believe God did not create evil. I support the belief that God created Lucifer, and Lucifer got jealous of the attention God gave to Jesus. He wanted to be as powerful and divine as God. This turned him corrupted, and the start of a war between good and evil. Are you referring to the King of Babylon or the appeal to popularity that combined three characters into one?
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:02 pm
MurrieGee But other than that I guess I was thinking about abortion more aloIn that context then the teenager should never have had sex in the first place. I know this is a number of months old, but I would like to make a few comments upon this. 1. Without proper education or access to birth control, this statement is a heavily biased opinion. 2. I really doubt that most abortions are from teenagers who should have kept their legs closed. 3. Forcing a teenager, whose own body is going through huge changes, to keep a pregnancy, especially considering the number of children already in the adoption or welfare system is off. 4. Not everyone who gets pregnant wanted to have sex.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:52 pm
Lucifer was Proud of his image, being a great Cherubim close to God's throne itself. But Jesus, was the right hand, and Lucifer wanted that position, and then he later just wanted to be God himself. Envy, Lust, Anger, Sloth (the easy way to power), Greed and Gluttony. He was obviously feeling all of those towards God, for his power and knowledge.
I do not see evil as created, I see it as the twisting and mutilating of what is good. You desire what you have no right too.
I think Tolkien explains it best with the Simarillion, which have notable biblical references. One of the Angelic beings called Ainur, which some become the "Earth-bound" Valar, falls into darkness. He was already the strongest, but he wanted more power. Melkor is his name, he was later called Morgoth. He kidnaps the elves when they are first created, and twists and mutilates them into Orcs... He never actually created the Orcs, they were just false beings... Same with Ents, they are just mutilated into Trolls. Balrogs are also fallen angelic beings called Maiar, who are lower to the Valar, which Melkor is. So he does take some of them, and twists them into Balrogs, Dragons, SAURON, etc...
Basically, Satan is the Mutilator, the Liar, the Cheater. He turns things into what they are not meant to be.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:03 pm
You see, I don't believe in Lucifer as in "The Devil"... I believe in a contingent of angels who decided to meddle in men's affairs as explained in the book of Enoch, more than I believe in one entity who hated God... "Lucifer" was a metaphor that referred to a human king, not a fallen angel who has become the polar opposite of God... Do I believe in spiritual adversaries? Yes I do. But I don't believe that the majority of Christians have looked into the full story... Now the Christian community feeds on an over-sensationalized version of what never was to foster fear in order to keep the masses in line... Fear that was never a state-of-mind that God intended for His people to cling to... I mean, seriously, we venerate this one supposed entity to near equal power of God, only for the side of darkness, and then he has all these minions that he commands as well... When in reality, the story we quote about pride and falling was really a reference to a human king and his kingdom, a metaphor... What does that say about what we are left with? Well, basically, it just says that the Bible doesn't really have allot to say about our spiritual adversaries... Now, I think that Christians have been blaming a false devil for centuries now... It's easy to have a scape-goat (no pun intended) for us to say we had more pressure than our own flesh to lead us into temptation... Who wants to admit that they are so weak that their own desire were more than enough to lead them off of the straight and narrow? We give the enemy too much power over us when we assume that there is one guy so big and bad that he thinks he could be enough to rival God... I mean, if he is smart enough to lead legions onto the face of the planet and ruin all of God's most favored creation, then surely he is smart enough to know he doesn't have a chance against Him if there never was one... So this "devil" would have to have a good amount of power by that estimation... and on that same note, we can easily say we don't have a chance if he decides to attack us... Well, all I have to say to that is "Shenanigans!" I think it's high time that we as Christians start asking the questions that haven't been readily asked. I think it's time we rethink our ideas about "Satan"/"Lucifer"/ "The Devil" and find out what we are really up against... It won't be pretty , but it's easier to stand against an enemy when you know what you are going to have to face... But for those who are up to the challenge of re-evaluating our knowledge of "The Devil" , a willingness to re-evaluate evil and how it fits into God's plan is necessary.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:39 pm
From what I read on wikipedia, it seems Lucifer is a title given around 3rd Century. Which would mean that, if it's anywhere in the bible, it is a blasphemous to use it. Morning Star was also a title given to Jesus... so now THAT is confusing. wikipedia In the New Testament the "adversary" has many names, but "Lucifer" is not among them. He is called "Satan" (Matt. 4:10; Mark 1:13, 4:15; Luke 10:1 cool , "devil" (Matt. 4:1), "adversary" (1. Peter 5:8, ἀντίδικος; 1. Tim. 5:14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. 13:39), "accuser" (Rev. 12:10), "old serpent" (Rev. 20:2), "great dragon" (Rev. 12:9), Beelzebub (Matt. 10:25, 12:24), and Belial (comp. Samael). In Luke 10:18, John 12:31 and Rev. 12:9 the fall of Satan is mentioned. The devil is regarded as the author of all evil (Luke 10:19; Acts 5:3; 2. Cor. 11:3; Ephes. 2:2), who beguiled Eve (2. Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9). Because of Satan, death came into this world, being ever the tempter (1. Cor. 7:5; 1. Thess. 3:5; 1. Peter 5: cool , even as he tempted Jesus (Matt. 4). The Christian demonology and belief in the devil dominated subsequent periods.[10] However, though the New Testament includes the conception that Satan fell from heaven "as lightning" (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:7–10),[11] it nowhere applies the name Lucifer to him. Yes, I know using wikipedia as a source is the WORST idea possible, but it seems like no idiots edited it, so it's alright. So I guess calling him Lucifer is pointless, because it's not biblical canon. Maybe the the King who led the people to make the Tower of Babel fell from the top due to being so confused he thought he was completely crazy and jumped. When you hit the top, all you can do his fall back down, HARD.
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:07 am
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