|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:59 am
Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason No you gave me several bundles of crap that prove nothing and are false Hypocrite. Why is it that you despise the bible so much anyways? What did God or the Bible ever do to harm you? Why can't you believe? It isn't even hard to believe at any rate to atheists you need every bit of information when God doesn't work that way. He doesn't light every step in front of you, he works by FAITH, you can't move him by any other means, you haven't even understood the bible that you said was disproved by that page. It is laughable that you call me a hypocrite but don't look for the deeper meaning. lol I despise the fact that you call it literal when there is a ton of evidence against many parts. Even though the people who wrote the bible even said it was literal? And for the last time, the link that you sent me to with why it was false was wrong, they misunderstood every bit of what those verses means. Why do you not want it to be literal? Is it because your afraid of there being a God? Why so would you hate that if he offers life? Why would I be afraid of there being a God? If God exists, then he exists. You don't need a book to say otherwise about that. Then why is it so difficult to believe the absolute truth that he put here? That is a fact, he is real, his word is real. If it wasn't I wouldn't be here saying this right now. I wasn't drawn here by tv or simply because I wanted so hard to believe it. God actually can be felt if one reaches out to him. Why is it so hard to believe that the bible is true? You say you have no problem, but you deny the absolute truth of the bible. I'm not saying this harshly, but why does this offend you? Because what you are saying is that a book written by sheep herders and nobles constitutes as proof.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:14 pm
God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason No you gave me several bundles of crap that prove nothing and are false Hypocrite. Why is it that you despise the bible so much anyways? What did God or the Bible ever do to harm you? Why can't you believe? It isn't even hard to believe at any rate to atheists you need every bit of information when God doesn't work that way. He doesn't light every step in front of you, he works by FAITH, you can't move him by any other means, you haven't even understood the bible that you said was disproved by that page. It is laughable that you call me a hypocrite but don't look for the deeper meaning. lol I despise the fact that you call it literal when there is a ton of evidence against many parts. Even though the people who wrote the bible even said it was literal? And for the last time, the link that you sent me to with why it was false was wrong, they misunderstood every bit of what those verses means. Why do you not want it to be literal? Is it because your afraid of there being a God? Why so would you hate that if he offers life? Why would I be afraid of there being a God? If God exists, then he exists. You don't need a book to say otherwise about that. Then why is it so difficult to believe the absolute truth that he put here? That is a fact, he is real, his word is real. If it wasn't I wouldn't be here saying this right now. I wasn't drawn here by tv or simply because I wanted so hard to believe it. God actually can be felt if one reaches out to him. Why is it so hard to believe that the bible is true? You say you have no problem, but you deny the absolute truth of the bible. I'm not saying this harshly, but why does this offend you? Because what you are saying is that a book written by sheep herders and nobles constitutes as proof. Well why can't simple people write anything true huh? This book isn't simple writings, you realize there is a biblical coding within the torah? The first five books of the old testament, they have found names, dates, and times for many things within it. People have given dates that say things such as an assassination that occurred. http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/08.htmHow could people back then know about those things Hmmm...? confused And before the thing about someone could have gone back and edited it would be nonsense because those verses have existed just like Isaiah before modern times, you can at least prove that and realize those codes aren't getting there by simple Shepherds. In other words these weren't simple cavemen idiots writing these without logic, God had to have encoded that into it, and many scientists say this. You seem to hate the bible as being told to be true, but there has to be more. Why would you hate it because it was written by simple folk? If it said that the emperor of rome wrote it, or the ruler of some other nation would that change your view? Why do you hate it as being true? That doesn't make sense to hate it simply because people like that helped write it. God doesn't choose mighty people, or strong people to get his job done, he uses those who are despised to confound the so-called wise. He uses those who are considered lowly. EX: David and Goliath.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Silent Harry Mason Well why can't simple people write anything true huh? They can, but even professors who have studied science for 60 years require evidence for their thesis. Silent Harry Mason This book isn't simple writings, you realize there is a biblical coding within the torah? The first five books of the old testament, they have found names, dates, and times for many things within it. People have given dates that say things such as an assassination that occurred. http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/08.htm You do realize that prophecies are a hoax, right? I gave you the link on that. 1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled: 1. Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred. 2. Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies. 3. Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will. 4. Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made. 5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy. There are no prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories. 2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people's behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass; Jonah 3 gives an example. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning. 3. The Bible also contains failed prophecies, in the sense that things God said would happen did not (Skeptic's Annotated Bible n.d.). For example: * Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others (Josh. 3:9-10). But those tribes were not driven out (Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13). * Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years (29:10-14), and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it (29:19-20). Neither happened. 4. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too (Prophecy Fulfilled n.d.). 5. Divinity is not shown by miracles. The Bible itself says true prophecies may come elsewhere than from God (Deut. 13:1-3), as may other miracles (Exod. 7:22, Matt. 4: cool . Some people say that to focus on proofs is to miss the whole point of faith (John 20:29). Silent Harry Mason How could people back then know about those things Hmmm...? confused And before the thing about someone could have gone back and edited it would be nonsense You are right. That would be nonesense, but look at the above statement. Silent Harry Mason You seem to hate the bible as being told to be true, but there has to be more. Why would you hate it because it was written by simple folk? No. I don't hate the bible, I hate your retarded statement surrounding it. The Bible have influenced more people than your sorry a** ever would. It's just that you claim it's 100% true, I disagree. Silent Harry Mason If it said that the emperor of rome wrote it, or the ruler of some other nation would that change your view? No Silent Harry Mason God doesn't choose mighty people, or strong people to get his job done, he uses those who are despised to confound the so-called wise. He uses those who are considered lowly. EX: David and Goliath. It's funny that you have a claim as to what God does when you rely on the Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:06 pm
God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason Well why can't simple people write anything true huh? They can, but even professors who have studied science for 60 years require evidence for their thesis. Silent Harry Mason This book isn't simple writings, you realize there is a biblical coding within the torah? The first five books of the old testament, they have found names, dates, and times for many things within it. People have given dates that say things such as an assassination that occurred. http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/08.htm You do realize that prophecies are a hoax, right? I gave you the link on that. 1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled: 1. Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred. 2. Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies. 3. Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will. 4. Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made. 5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy. There are no prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories. 2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people's behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass; Jonah 3 gives an example. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning. 3. The Bible also contains failed prophecies, in the sense that things God said would happen did not (Skeptic's Annotated Bible n.d.). For example: * Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others (Josh. 3:9-10). But those tribes were not driven out (Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13). * Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years (29:10-14), and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it (29:19-20). Neither happened. 4. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too (Prophecy Fulfilled n.d.). 5. Divinity is not shown by miracles. The Bible itself says true prophecies may come elsewhere than from God (Deut. 13:1-3), as may other miracles (Exod. 7:22, Matt. 4: cool . Some people say that to focus on proofs is to miss the whole point of faith (John 20:29). Silent Harry Mason How could people back then know about those things Hmmm...? confused And before the thing about someone could have gone back and edited it would be nonsense You are right. That would be nonesense, but look at the above statement. Silent Harry Mason You seem to hate the bible as being told to be true, but there has to be more. Why would you hate it because it was written by simple folk? No. I don't hate the bible, I hate your retarded statement surrounding it. The Bible have influenced more people than your sorry a** ever would. It's just that you claim it's 100% true, I disagree. Silent Harry Mason If it said that the emperor of rome wrote it, or the ruler of some other nation would that change your view? No Silent Harry Mason God doesn't choose mighty people, or strong people to get his job done, he uses those who are despised to confound the so-called wise. He uses those who are considered lowly. EX: David and Goliath. It's funny that you have a claim as to what God does when you rely on the Bible. No it can't be modified in this case, or a code THROUGHOUT ALL FIVE BOOKS WOULDN'T SHOW. And the bible isn't saying I predict people will drop a potato. What odds would it be to say that someone would be beaten for his people? Since it is in the dead sea scrolls how did anyone get a hold of them to modify them? What makes them a hoax? Opinion? As a matter a fact you've mention the skeptic bible again which I've already proved several things that they have misenterpreted and why the heck would the Illuminati be willing to fulfill the New World Order to bring about a prophecy from a book that they hate? The U.S. Government wouldn't be taking Christian stuff out if they didn't hate it, and Obama is involved with some of this as well. All of the prophecies in the bible break out of all the stuff you just wrote. Just because you look at someone's opinion makes them right right? So you automatically hate it because Atheists disagree and don't want God to be real because of what is written in the bible right? You failed to answer my question on why you deny the bible, nobody edited it, or it would all be out of balance. And the out of balances that the Skeptic bible showed was nothing more then God insults, and misinterpretations that misunderstood what they meant. You're still saying the same thing but fail to literally show any of it. Sodom and Gomorrah are actually found to have mass traits of sulfur and other chemicals, Noah's arc have been said to have been found, everything is lining up with the book of revelation according to every account, and God is coming soon. Believe what you want, believe lies of people who think they understand things, but there are a lot of atheists that have seen hell and came back believing what they saw. http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/14/w-v1Fppjlvc http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/1/OnVhKH2C1Jw http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/5/YU7q4HSnm24 http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/0/p_uIQP3nD58 http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/9/LY4eduFR0mI http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/10/JlA0XDgFpwg http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/5/O-3bDwaI9w0 EACH of these people were Atheists before they saw hell. The process of a chemical experience is also invalid because each of them go into so much detail. Including this: http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/0/5HbtoX3Q5OI
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:03 pm
Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus So how do the prophets and apostles and all that know they were communicating with God? How could they tell the difference between God and a demon trying to trick them if demons can mimic angels, etc.? First of all the prophets and apostles wouldn't even be those for real had it been that God spoke to them, there are blessings that have followed these people so how would they have that if they were talking to Satan? You have a good point there though. The prophets would have been striked down under the law if they were doing the will of Satan(back in the old testament days, not to say any of them were perfect. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit( a trait to those who are saved) and they probably often read the teachings prior to what was going on around them, God helped them to understand what they were taught in their everyday practices.That is another way things can get mixed up because people believe it sometimes that they are seeing the will of God and are doing his will, such as the story behind the person who started Jehovah's witnesses, the thing behind it rips and changes the meaning of the bible basically completely. Definitely by what God had written down before them, the bible says to put on the whole armor of God so that you can stand in the evil day, they would probably stay close to God, if they were hearing or seeing something that was in opposition to what was written down, they would know to stay away from it because it doesn't line up with what they already know God said. God doesn't allow Satan to deceive his people if they stay close to him. If everything we know about God has been communicated through people in contact with him then how do we determine the validity of those very first communications? How do we know that they weren't communicating with a demon or something from the very first instance? The assumption is that only God spoke at first and laid down the rules for everything after that. How do we know it was God in the first place? How do we know that people weren't deceived by something else? Or that God didn't misrepresent Himself to sound better than he actually was? I think I'm getting across what I'm trying to say. If not, let me know and I'll try again. Well then the whole bible would be a lie, if that is the case it would be in vain that anyone has done anything, however that is up to belief correct? But the thing is if it were a lie, it would eventually go away. Anyways if Jesus were on the earth like he said, and he was a liar what attracted his disciples and apostles to make such claims about his life only to be put to death? On another note I have this. Quote: The Bible does indeed contain all truth, so that it could fulfill the following expectation: (2 Timothy 3:16-17) ". . .All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." That does not mean that when it quotes accounts by liars, such as Satan, Jezebel, the Pharisees, and other misrepresentatives, that it agrees with them, but it records tha actual truths of the situations involved! Also, if the bible is read out of context, of course you could find so-called errors in it. Like that dumb website below that the last person posted. At any rate I can't make anyone believe everything or anything, I know for certain it is true because of the verse above. So what makes Christianity superior to any other faith? You just said that it basically comes down to faith. I don't understand why Christianity is superior to other faiths. There are a lot of faiths that claim to be the one true way. I'm not bashing on Christianity at all, but when someone tries to proselytize me I need to know why their way is superior to the perfectly good faith system I have already.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:33 am
Well from my standpoint the faith requires nothing more then faith. We don't have to work for our salvation it's given to us freely. From what I know of religions they tend to have the beliver work for something while beliving in the Messiah you don't work because the work is done. (I don't use the term "Christian" but I'm speaking of those following the Messiah)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:30 am
Can anyone prove to me that "Jesus" is god. Or jesus is one third of gods throne or is the son of god. It's extremely hard for me to grasp the idea of Jesus being in any way divine. The islamic perspective of Jesus being just a noble prophet makes more sense to me. Can any of you Paulians explain to me the following verses also? Quote: “Why do you call me good: No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 9:17, Mark 10-18, and Luke 18:19 “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 “I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.” (John 8:2 cool “Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …” (John 5:19) “But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent me.” (John 7:29) “He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) “But now I go away to Him who sent me …” (John 16:5) “Jesus answered them and said, ‘My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.’” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:41 am
PubIic Enemy Can anyone prove to me that "Jesus" is god. Or jesus is one third of gods throne or is the son of god. It's extremely hard for me to grasp the idea of Jesus being in any way divine. The islamic perspective of Jesus being just a noble prophet makes more sense to me. Can any of you Paulians explain to me the following verses also? Quote: “Why do you call me good: No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 9:17, Mark 10-18, and Luke 18:19 “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 “I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.” (John 8:2 cool “Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …” (John 5:19) “But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent me.” (John 7:29) “He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) “But now I go away to Him who sent me …” (John 16:5) “Jesus answered them and said, ‘My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.’” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) He was sent by God and is God, God chose to show himself in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the son obviously, he is fully God and fully Man. All man can commit sin, but Jesus never sinned, and he arose from the dead, something that no human can do. EDIT: Also he is Holy, not simply sinless. No human would have been chosen by the Holy Spirit to be the Jewish Messiah. I don't see why it is so hard to believe that Jesus is God, he is simply is God the Father's son, but also man. He knew no sin. He did no sin, he is still alive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:43 am
Azkeel Well from my standpoint the faith requires nothing more then faith. We don't have to work for our salvation it's given to us freely. From what I know of religions they tend to have the beliver work for something while beliving in the Messiah you don't work because the work is done. (I don't use the term "Christian" but I'm speaking of those following the Messiah) Exactly. It is not by works of righteousness that we have done, but by his mercy he saved us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:50 am
Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus So how do the prophets and apostles and all that know they were communicating with God? How could they tell the difference between God and a demon trying to trick them if demons can mimic angels, etc.? First of all the prophets and apostles wouldn't even be those for real had it been that God spoke to them, there are blessings that have followed these people so how would they have that if they were talking to Satan? You have a good point there though. The prophets would have been striked down under the law if they were doing the will of Satan(back in the old testament days, not to say any of them were perfect. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit( a trait to those who are saved) and they probably often read the teachings prior to what was going on around them, God helped them to understand what they were taught in their everyday practices.That is another way things can get mixed up because people believe it sometimes that they are seeing the will of God and are doing his will, such as the story behind the person who started Jehovah's witnesses, the thing behind it rips and changes the meaning of the bible basically completely. Definitely by what God had written down before them, the bible says to put on the whole armor of God so that you can stand in the evil day, they would probably stay close to God, if they were hearing or seeing something that was in opposition to what was written down, they would know to stay away from it because it doesn't line up with what they already know God said. God doesn't allow Satan to deceive his people if they stay close to him. If everything we know about God has been communicated through people in contact with him then how do we determine the validity of those very first communications? How do we know that they weren't communicating with a demon or something from the very first instance? The assumption is that only God spoke at first and laid down the rules for everything after that. How do we know it was God in the first place? How do we know that people weren't deceived by something else? Or that God didn't misrepresent Himself to sound better than he actually was? I think I'm getting across what I'm trying to say. If not, let me know and I'll try again. Well then the whole bible would be a lie, if that is the case it would be in vain that anyone has done anything, however that is up to belief correct? But the thing is if it were a lie, it would eventually go away. Anyways if Jesus were on the earth like he said, and he was a liar what attracted his disciples and apostles to make such claims about his life only to be put to death? On another note I have this. Quote: The Bible does indeed contain all truth, so that it could fulfill the following expectation: (2 Timothy 3:16-17) ". . .All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." That does not mean that when it quotes accounts by liars, such as Satan, Jezebel, the Pharisees, and other misrepresentatives, that it agrees with them, but it records tha actual truths of the situations involved! Also, if the bible is read out of context, of course you could find so-called errors in it. Like that dumb website below that the last person posted. At any rate I can't make anyone believe everything or anything, I know for certain it is true because of the verse above. So what makes Christianity superior to any other faith? You just said that it basically comes down to faith. I don't understand why Christianity is superior to other faiths. There are a lot of faiths that claim to be the one true way. I'm not bashing on Christianity at all, but when someone tries to proselytize me I need to know why their way is superior to the perfectly good faith system I have already. Well Christians (Not the religion, but those who follow Jesus and are saved by him) don't, Can't, couldn't, and never will work their ways to heaven. No one can do anything to get to salvation. Other religions describe being good as doing good, simply do better then you're doing. A lot of those religions don't even promise salvation. Jesus said this, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Jesus isn't simply a way. He IS the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:06 pm
Silent Harry Mason PubIic Enemy Can anyone prove to me that "Jesus" is god. Or jesus is one third of gods throne or is the son of god. It's extremely hard for me to grasp the idea of Jesus being in any way divine. The islamic perspective of Jesus being just a noble prophet makes more sense to me. Can any of you Paulians explain to me the following verses also? Quote: “Why do you call me good: No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 9:17, Mark 10-18, and Luke 18:19 “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 “I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.” (John 8:2 cool “Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …” (John 5:19) “But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent me.” (John 7:29) “He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) “But now I go away to Him who sent me …” (John 16:5) “Jesus answered them and said, ‘My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.’” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) He was sent by God and is God, God chose to show himself in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the son obviously, he is fully God and fully Man. All man can commit sin, but Jesus never sinned, and he arose from the dead, something that no human can do. EDIT: Also he is Holy, not simply sinless. No human would have been chosen by the Holy Spirit to be the Jewish Messiah. I don't see why it is so hard to believe that Jesus is God, he is simply is God the Father's son, but also man. He knew no sin. He did no sin, he is still alive. So God is 1+1+1=1? No offence, but that's bullshit. To me it seems like you worship the creation rather than the creator. The trinity and the idea of god being triune is illogical. So you believe Jesus is God, yes. That Jesus died, yes. But he's still God, right. So you believe Jesus died and since Jesus is God this means God died? So i ask you, who ran the world when "Jesus died"? And since you believe in the Trinity you believe in the father, the holy spirit and the son. And the son died. Therefore you believe that whilst the son was dead the holy spirit and the father continued to run the affairs of the world. Which means since Jesus who is God was lying dead and buried, the Father and Holy Spirit who were also God were running the universe? So in conclusion one God is dead, and the other 2 run the affairs of the universe, may I know how this is all one God? This whole Trinitarian belief is PAGAN. For example the pagans had beliefs of different gods, all having different purposes such as a god for rain, god for sun etc. Please explain how God is still 1???? AND ALSO EXPLAIN THE PASSAGES I QUOTED FROM THE BIBLE WHICH REFUTE THE TRINITYpeace
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:45 pm
PubIic Enemy Silent Harry Mason PubIic Enemy Can anyone prove to me that "Jesus" is god. Or jesus is one third of gods throne or is the son of god. It's extremely hard for me to grasp the idea of Jesus being in any way divine. The islamic perspective of Jesus being just a noble prophet makes more sense to me. Can any of you Paulians explain to me the following verses also? Quote: “Why do you call me good: No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 9:17, Mark 10-18, and Luke 18:19 “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 “I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.” (John 8:2 cool “Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …” (John 5:19) “But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent me.” (John 7:29) “He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) “But now I go away to Him who sent me …” (John 16:5) “Jesus answered them and said, ‘My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.’” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) He was sent by God and is God, God chose to show himself in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the son obviously, he is fully God and fully Man. All man can commit sin, but Jesus never sinned, and he arose from the dead, something that no human can do. EDIT: Also he is Holy, not simply sinless. No human would have been chosen by the Holy Spirit to be the Jewish Messiah. I don't see why it is so hard to believe that Jesus is God, he is simply is God the Father's son, but also man. He knew no sin. He did no sin, he is still alive. So God is 1+1+1=1? No offence, but that's bullshit. To me it seems like you worship the creation rather than the creator. The trinity and the idea of god being triune is illogical. So you believe Jesus is God, yes. That Jesus died, yes. But he's still God, right. So you believe Jesus died and since Jesus is God this means God died? So i ask you, who ran the world when "Jesus died"? And since you believe in the Trinity you believe in the father, the holy spirit and the son. And the son died. Therefore you believe that whilst the son was dead the holy spirit and the father continued to run the affairs of the world. Which means since Jesus who is God was lying dead and buried, the Father and Holy Spirit who were also God were running the universe? So in conclusion one God is dead, and the other 2 run the affairs of the universe, may I know how this is all one God? This whole Trinitarian belief is PAGAN. For example the pagans had beliefs of different gods, all having different purposes such as a god for rain, god for sun etc. Please explain how God is still 1???? AND ALSO EXPLAIN THE PASSAGES I QUOTED FROM THE BIBLE WHICH REFUTE THE TRINITYpeace No you misinterpret the trinity, it isn't three gods, just three different sides to that God, he shows himself in three persons. And you misunderstand those bible passages. He can't do anything apart from the will of the father, it is like saying there are three personalities, or three jobs. Also Muslims say he is a prophet where he never made that claim to be a prophet.
You misunderstand what I mean by the trinity. It isn't like rain, For example, a father is a son to his father (not the case with God) but is also a husband, and therefore, playing three roles, yet being but one person.
The question is "Can Christians prove Jesus is God?" The answer is simply yes and I will show you.
People will say that Jesus never claimed to be God. However, Jesus never claimed to be prophet or a man ether, but the Muslims do not have a problem with this. It is not necessary for some to make a direct claim about something in order for it to be true here let me show you if say My name is Sean, you can conclude from my name that I am a male but I never said I am one. Let me take this further and show you about Jesus.
Jesus may not have said "I am God" in a affirmative statement however, He did claim the divine name for himself (Exo. 3:14 with John 8:5 cool and he also received worship (Matt. 2:2; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-3 cool .
In Exo. 3:14 God tells Moses that I am when Moses asked for His name. "John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Please notice here that Jesus says Before Abraham was born this is past tense but in the same breath Jesus says I am bringing it right back to the present. Jesus makes this switch on purpose Jesus drew there attention to the Old Testament then draws them right back to the present tense with I am. Jesus therefore was making the claim that He was God and it clearly upset them "John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him." This shows us that Jesus clearly caused them to reflect on the name of God therefore they new He was claiming to be God. We know they new this from John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
It is not necessary for Jesus to directly claim I am God in order for the claim to be the truth of who he is to be.
Jesus is God, why would he have been able to rise in corruptible flesh of man? Why is it hard to believe he is divine when he did so many miracles throughout his ministry? Now I'm not very knowledgeable about Islam, but Muslims believe there are more then one way to heaven correct? Why would God have any other way if he wanted you to accept his doctrines? For example: say that God said this don't take this as if I'm literally saying God said this, "Ok, here is my commands, follow my teachings or you will burn in Hell, obey me. However if you go to one of the other Gods, they may help you to find an alternate path."
If that is how it is (Correct me if I'm wrong) but if that is the case, and you happened to be right anyways...How would that be any less Pagan?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:44 pm
I tend to agree with the Mormons who claim the bible is not completely translated correctly and other scripture in the world has spiritual validity.
I tend to agree with the people who claim Jesus might have gone to India or the Himalayas to study with rishis, considering the strong parallels.
I tend to agree with the Qabbalists who claim the Torah has four different readings:
* Peshat, the plain (simple) or literal reading;
* Remez, the allegorical reading through text's hint or allusion
* Derash, the metaphorical reading through a (rabbinic sermon's) comparison/illustration (midrash)
* Sod, the hidden meaning reading through text's secret or mystery (Kabbalah).
I tend to agree the bible is full of both literal and metaphoric meaning. Jesus did not turn a politician into a fox, nor did he turn himself into a giant chicken.
He replied, "Go tell that fox, ’I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’
“How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings!”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:03 pm
Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason First of all the prophets and apostles wouldn't even be those for real had it been that God spoke to them, there are blessings that have followed these people so how would they have that if they were talking to Satan? You have a good point there though. The prophets would have been striked down under the law if they were doing the will of Satan(back in the old testament days, not to say any of them were perfect. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit( a trait to those who are saved) and they probably often read the teachings prior to what was going on around them, God helped them to understand what they were taught in their everyday practices.That is another way things can get mixed up because people believe it sometimes that they are seeing the will of God and are doing his will, such as the story behind the person who started Jehovah's witnesses, the thing behind it rips and changes the meaning of the bible basically completely. Definitely by what God had written down before them, the bible says to put on the whole armor of God so that you can stand in the evil day, they would probably stay close to God, if they were hearing or seeing something that was in opposition to what was written down, they would know to stay away from it because it doesn't line up with what they already know God said. God doesn't allow Satan to deceive his people if they stay close to him. If everything we know about God has been communicated through people in contact with him then how do we determine the validity of those very first communications? How do we know that they weren't communicating with a demon or something from the very first instance? The assumption is that only God spoke at first and laid down the rules for everything after that. How do we know it was God in the first place? How do we know that people weren't deceived by something else? Or that God didn't misrepresent Himself to sound better than he actually was? I think I'm getting across what I'm trying to say. If not, let me know and I'll try again. Well then the whole bible would be a lie, if that is the case it would be in vain that anyone has done anything, however that is up to belief correct? But the thing is if it were a lie, it would eventually go away. Anyways if Jesus were on the earth like he said, and he was a liar what attracted his disciples and apostles to make such claims about his life only to be put to death? On another note I have this. Quote: The Bible does indeed contain all truth, so that it could fulfill the following expectation: (2 Timothy 3:16-17) ". . .All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." That does not mean that when it quotes accounts by liars, such as Satan, Jezebel, the Pharisees, and other misrepresentatives, that it agrees with them, but it records tha actual truths of the situations involved! Also, if the bible is read out of context, of course you could find so-called errors in it. Like that dumb website below that the last person posted. At any rate I can't make anyone believe everything or anything, I know for certain it is true because of the verse above. So what makes Christianity superior to any other faith? You just said that it basically comes down to faith. I don't understand why Christianity is superior to other faiths. There are a lot of faiths that claim to be the one true way. I'm not bashing on Christianity at all, but when someone tries to proselytize me I need to know why their way is superior to the perfectly good faith system I have already. Well Christians (Not the religion, but those who follow Jesus and are saved by him) don't, Can't, couldn't, and never will work their ways to heaven. No one can do anything to get to salvation. Other religions describe being good as doing good, simply do better then you're doing. A lot of those religions don't even promise salvation. Jesus said this, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Jesus isn't simply a way. He IS the way. I haven't really been presented with anything that convinces me that Christianity is superior to any other path. I just don't think it's for me. Thanks for taking the time to have this discussion with me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:37 am
Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason Well why can't simple people write anything true huh? They can, but even professors who have studied science for 60 years require evidence for their thesis. Silent Harry Mason This book isn't simple writings, you realize there is a biblical coding within the torah? The first five books of the old testament, they have found names, dates, and times for many things within it. People have given dates that say things such as an assassination that occurred. http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/08.htm You do realize that prophecies are a hoax, right? I gave you the link on that. 1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled: 1. Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred. 2. Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies. 3. Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will. 4. Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made. 5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy. There are no prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories. 2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people's behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass; Jonah 3 gives an example. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning. 3. The Bible also contains failed prophecies, in the sense that things God said would happen did not (Skeptic's Annotated Bible n.d.). For example: * Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others (Josh. 3:9-10). But those tribes were not driven out (Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13). * Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years (29:10-14), and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it (29:19-20). Neither happened. 4. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too (Prophecy Fulfilled n.d.). 5. Divinity is not shown by miracles. The Bible itself says true prophecies may come elsewhere than from God (Deut. 13:1-3), as may other miracles (Exod. 7:22, Matt. 4: cool . Some people say that to focus on proofs is to miss the whole point of faith (John 20:29). Silent Harry Mason How could people back then know about those things Hmmm...? confused And before the thing about someone could have gone back and edited it would be nonsense You are right. That would be nonesense, but look at the above statement. Silent Harry Mason You seem to hate the bible as being told to be true, but there has to be more. Why would you hate it because it was written by simple folk? No. I don't hate the bible, I hate your retarded statement surrounding it. The Bible have influenced more people than your sorry a** ever would. It's just that you claim it's 100% true, I disagree. Silent Harry Mason If it said that the emperor of rome wrote it, or the ruler of some other nation would that change your view? No Silent Harry Mason God doesn't choose mighty people, or strong people to get his job done, he uses those who are despised to confound the so-called wise. He uses those who are considered lowly. EX: David and Goliath. It's funny that you have a claim as to what God does when you rely on the Bible. No it can't be modified in this case, or a code THROUGHOUT ALL FIVE BOOKS WOULDN'T SHOW. And the bible isn't saying I predict people will drop a potato. What odds would it be to say that someone would be beaten for his people? Since it is in the dead sea scrolls how did anyone get a hold of them to modify them? What makes them a hoax? Opinion? As a matter a fact you've mention the skeptic bible again which I've already proved several things that they have misenterpreted and why the heck would the Illuminati be willing to fulfill the New World Order to bring about a prophecy from a book that they hate? The U.S. Government wouldn't be taking Christian stuff out if they didn't hate it, and Obama is involved with some of this as well. All of the prophecies in the bible break out of all the stuff you just wrote. Just because you look at someone's opinion makes them right right? So you automatically hate it because Atheists disagree and don't want God to be real because of what is written in the bible right? You failed to answer my question on why you deny the bible, nobody edited it, or it would all be out of balance. And the out of balances that the Skeptic bible showed was nothing more then God insults, and misinterpretations that misunderstood what they meant. You're still saying the same thing but fail to literally show any of it. Sodom and Gomorrah are actually found to have mass traits of sulfur and other chemicals, Noah's arc have been said to have been found, everything is lining up with the book of revelation according to every account, and God is coming soon. Believe what you want, believe lies of people who think they understand things, but there are a lot of atheists that have seen hell and came back believing what they saw. http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/14/w-v1Fppjlvc http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/1/OnVhKH2C1Jw http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/5/YU7q4HSnm24 http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/0/p_uIQP3nD58 http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/9/LY4eduFR0mI http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/10/JlA0XDgFpwg http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/5/O-3bDwaI9w0 EACH of these people were Atheists before they saw hell. The process of a chemical experience is also invalid because each of them go into so much detail. Including this: http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/0/5HbtoX3Q5OI I find it funny how you keep changing goal posts. How is it that level of detail means that it's divine? our brains are amazing processors with wonderful videocards. I already answered why I deny the Bible. It's the same reason why I deny the Qu'ran, Torah, Viddec, Dianetics and the Book of Mormon. No proof of any higher power and it has been proven that we evolved into humans. Not born from 2 of them 6000 years ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
