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| Death Penalty: please read first post before voting |
| for it |
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31% |
[ 10 ] |
| against it |
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31% |
[ 10 ] |
| mixed ground |
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37% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 32 |
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:12 am
chaoticpuppet For future reference, it is spelled et cetera. ...fine. It's not that big of an error. Quote: Quote: ...all people have slightly different desires, so just treating others how you wanna be treated can't be the best way to treat everyone; shouldn't you try and find out what they want, somehow? Think a little bit on it, and you'll see how it's covered already. Quote: Otherwise, you are essentially saying to them with your actions, "hey, I want to be killed, so try to kill me." Is this what you're talking about? I think that this doesn't quite cover it, because generally, people that kill others don't actually want to be killed. Likewise, people that do things that you don't like usually don't actually want that to be done to them. So it would be wrong to think that you're then doing them a favour by returning it. Also, you may say that this is fine, because they deserve to have what they did done back to them, if they don't like it. Sometimes, 'an eye for an eye' isn't the best solution because sometimes it just creates more suffering, without curing anything.
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:21 am
Contingent chaoticpuppet Think a little bit on it, and you'll see how it's covered already. Quote: Otherwise, you are essentially saying to them with your actions, "hey, I want to be killed, so try to kill me." Is this what you're talking about? I think that this doesn't quite cover it, because generally, people that kill others don't actually want to be killed. Likewise, people that do things that you don't like usually don't actually want that to be done to them. So it would be wrong to think that you're then doing them a favour by returning it. Also, you may say that this is fine, because they deserve to have what they did done back to them, if they don't like it. Sometimes, 'an eye for an eye' isn't the best solution because sometimes it just creates more suffering, without curing anything. No, that is not what I meant. I meant think on Kant's categorical Imperitive; it should give you an answer, if not, I'll do my best to help you see it.
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:11 am
chaoticpuppet I meant think on Kant's categorical Imperitive; it should give you an answer, if not, I'll do my best to help you see it. I'd like a hint. xp
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:12 am
Contingent chaoticpuppet I meant think on Kant's categorical Imperitive; it should give you an answer, if not, I'll do my best to help you see it. I'd like a hint. xp Okay "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Simply means treat others the way you want to be treated. In other words, if you want people to respect you, you should respect others; or if you want to kill people expect others to kill you. So to answer your question, Quote: ...all people have slightly different desires, so just treating others how you wanna be treated can't be the best way to treat everyone; shouldn't you try and find out what they want, somehow? Think about it this way, if you want people to treat you a certain way, you do one of two things, let them find out, or tell them, you should do this according to how you want to be treated in this area. Also, realize that even though pleasure is a subjective term, it is something everyone likes, not one person doesn't like pleasure, because the word pleasure can be adapted to any feeling that feels good to the person in question. With that definition of pleasure in mind, we already know that everyone likes pleasure, so, we should treat everyone in a way that pleasures them, if we want to be treated in a way that pleasures us. Now, what about finding out about what pleasures others? Well, if you don't want others to treat mistake your pleasure, then you should tell them, and expect them to listen, only if you are willing to do the same when they will want to tell you.
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:13 pm
no one has the right to kill anyone. when u kill someone u take their dreams,goals,family,...ect. we need to learn to fogive each other no matter wat...with that we can truly gain peace around the world. we need to see that we are all just people no matter where u r form.
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:30 am
TheGurentai Noone has the right to kill anyone. Does this include animals? Why/why not? Quote: When you kill someone , you take their dreams, goals, family, etc. 1. How do you take their family? 2. I don't think that this is always bad. Their dreams and goals may be to kill, rape, and pillage. Quote: We need to learn to fo rgive each other no matter w hat; with that we can truly gain peace around the world. People forgive a known killer. He's released. He kills again. No peace ensues. Quote: We need to see that we are all just people no matter where you're f rom. Where you're from isn't usually relevant to the death penalty. --------------------------------------------------- CP Think about it this way, if you want people to treat you a certain way, you do one of two things, let them find out, or tell them,you should do this according to how you want to be treated in this area. And in order to ensure that this is likely to be done, treat others as others say they want to be treated, eh? Quote: Now, what about finding out about what pleasures others? Well, if you don't want others to treat mistake your pleasure, then you should tell them, and expect them to listen, only if you are willing to do the same when they will want to tell you. Now it makes more sense... But if you feel that others are treating you in a way that they wouldn't want to be treated in, you couldn't necessarily treat them the way they treat you if it's not the way you want to be treated... But I suppose you could stop them from treating you in a way that you don't want to be treated, if you accept that they might stop you from treating them in a way that they don't wanna be treated. I've used the word 'treat' 10 times in this post.
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:02 am
TheGurentai no one has the right to kill anyone. Are you sure you mean to use the word kill? What about in defense, where the death of one of the people needs to happen for one to escape the danger they are in? When I am not allowed to kill someone, that takes away one of my rights as well, (the right to kill). We cannot live in a completely free society, where everyone can live as they see fit. Many things we humans do in such cases, is limit the rights of others. We must then live in a society with some sort of rules. Quote: when u kill someone u take their dreams, goals, family...ect 1. This is, of course, assuming that we have complete freewill. I do not believe we have complete freewill. 2. What do you mean by take away family? If they already have a family, are you really taking their family away, or, are you taking them away from their already existing family? 3. What if they were never to have a family, even if they had lived? 4. What if their dreams were of death or eternal rest? 5. What if their goal was eternal rest? 6. What if by death, you are causing them and yourselfs less harm, and more good? For example, if someone is, essentially, a vegatable, and will never recover, now you have the ability to pay for the hospital bills and such, but, do you have what it takes to bear the emotional, and maybe even physical grief and stress? Quote: we need to learn to fogive each other no matter wat...with that we can truly gain peace around the world. What makes you so certain we would gain peace? How about this for a thought, if the slaves, form those times, forgave their masters, would slavery still be going on today? How about this one, would the U.S. have gained independence from Britain if they forgave Britain for their non-representation while still taxing the American colonies? How about this one, would their be any jews left in the world today if we forgave Hitler for the Holocaust? Alternately, would there have been a Holocaust, if after WWI, France had been less forceful with their want of large reperations from Germany? Quote: we need to see that we are all just people no matter where u r form. Noble idea, however, it will never happen as long as there are more than one race, religion, sexuality, or anything of difference between two people. In other words, for this to happen, we would all be one of two things: 1. The exact same; or 2. Dead, with one person left on earth. People are different, there is no changing that, for example, there is no way to control the way my cells divide, I am therefore different in one way from you. Secondly, if everyone were the exact same, life would, well, be a shithole. Everything would be the same, nothing would be different. I myself, get very bored with what is the same for too long. I like changing things. For example, about every few months I rearrange my bedroom.
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:49 pm
Contingent TheGurentai Noone has the right to kill anyone. Does this include animals? Why/why not? Quote: When you kill someone , you take their dreams, goals, family, etc. 1. How do you take their family? 2. I don't think that this is always bad. Their dreams and goals may be to kill, rape, and pillage. Quote: We need to learn to fo rgive each other no matter w hat; with that we can truly gain peace around the world. People forgive a known killer. He's released. He kills again. No peace ensues. Quote: We need to see that we are all just people no matter where you're f rom. Where you're from isn't usually relevant to the death penalty. --------------------------------------------------- I wish we could say we shouldn't kill animals, but since we have been eating animals all of our lives it kinda hard to not kill them, plus animals do not care for one another like humans do. Why do people kill, rape, and pillage? Are u saying that they do it on purpose. They may have a reason, people are not evil they are just blind. As i like to say "break the walls in your mind." Ask yourself why, they probably think what they are doing is right, they can not see any other choice, therefore they are blind. I am not saying your race would mean to be on the death penalty....i was just trying to spread the word of peace. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:11 pm
chaoticpuppet TheGurentai no one has the right to kill anyone. Are you sure you mean to use the word kill? What about in defense, where the death of one of the people needs to happen for one to escape the danger they are in? When I am not allowed to kill someone, that takes away one of my rights as well, (the right to kill). We cannot live in a completely free society, where everyone can live as they see fit. Many things we humans do in such cases, is limit the rights of others. We must then live in a society with some sort of rules. Quote: when u kill someone u take their dreams, goals, family...ect 1. This is, of course, assuming that we have complete freewill. I do not believe we have complete freewill. 2. What do you mean by take away family? If they already have a family, are you really taking their family away, or, are you taking them away from their already existing family? 3. What if they were never to have a family, even if they had lived? 4. What if their dreams were of death or eternal rest? 5. What if their goal was eternal rest? 6. What if by death, you are causing them and yourselfs less harm, and more good? For example, if someone is, essentially, a vegatable, and will never recover, now you have the ability to pay for the hospital bills and such, but, do you have what it takes to bear the emotional, and maybe even physical grief and stress? Quote: we need to learn to fogive each other no matter wat...with that we can truly gain peace around the world. What makes you so certain we would gain peace? How about this for a thought, if the slaves, form those times, forgave their masters, would slavery still be going on today? How about this one, would the U.S. have gained independence from Britain if they forgave Britain for their non-representation while still taxing the American colonies? How about this one, would their be any jews left in the world today if we forgave Hitler for the Holocaust? Alternately, would there have been a Holocaust, if after WWI, France had been less forceful with their want of large reperations from Germany? Quote: we need to see that we are all just people no matter where u r form. Noble idea, however, it will never happen as long as there are more than one race, religion, sexuality, or anything of difference between two people. In other words, for this to happen, we would all be one of two things: 1. The exact same; or 2. Dead, with one person left on earth. People are different, there is no changing that, for example, there is no way to control the way my cells divide, I am therefore different in one way from you. Secondly, if everyone were the exact same, life would, well, be a shithole. Everything would be the same, nothing would be different. I myself, get very bored with what is the same for too long. I like changing things. For example, about every few months I rearrange my bedroom. Are you sure killing is the only way? There are allways other ways we just have to be open minded to them. No one has the right to take someones's life away. We all have the right to live. we all have freewill the only thing that is stopping you is your mind(break the walls in your mind.) If they want to die, then let them die. That is their choice. What you said about slavery,britain, and hitler is ture, but all we did was force upon them what was wrong. Abarham Lincon was a men during the slavery times, but he realize what they were doing was worng. If he was able to open his mind, others can do the same. I do not know what would happen if we didn't do anything, i just have to put trust in people to change their ways. I am not saying for people to all act the same, just change some of their ways. Its the year 2005 already, don't you think its time for a change. you may say peace may never happen, but it has to start from somewhere even if it is small. And i am one of thoes people.
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:50 pm
TheGurentai Are you sure killing is the only way? There are allways other ways we just have to be open minded to them. Sometimes, yes. I would only kill another person if it were absolutely necessary. Quote: No one has the right to take someones's life away. We all have the right to live. we all have freewill the only thing that is stopping you is your mind(break the walls in your mind.) If they want to die, then let them die. That is their choice. Again, I believe there are certain times when killing is the only way. Quote: What you said about slavery,britain, and hitler is ture, but all we did was force upon them what was wrong. Abarham Lincon was a men during the slavery times, but he realize what they were doing was worng. If he was able to open his mind, others can do the same. I do not know what would happen if we didn't do anything, i just have to put trust in people to change their ways. You could have also said, that they may have never happened, had not certain events happened prior to them. For the holocaust, one of the major events of Hitler's rise to power was the harsh treatment of German reperations by France. Quote: I am not saying for people to all act the same, just change some of their ways. Its the year 2005 already, don't you think its time for a change. you may say peace may never happen, but it has to start from somewhere even if it is small. And i am one of thoes people. If I gave the impression, that I thought it was completely impossible to make this world better, I am sorry, I never meant for that. I too, think that we need to become more tolerant. Why else would I have joined this guild?
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:19 pm
chaoticpuppet TheGurentai Are you sure killing is the only way? There are allways other ways we just have to be open minded to them. Sometimes, yes. I would only kill another person if it were absolutely necessary. Quote: No one has the right to take someones's life away. We all have the right to live. we all have freewill the only thing that is stopping you is your mind(break the walls in your mind.) If they want to die, then let them die. That is their choice. Again, I believe there are certain times when killing is the only way. Quote: What you said about slavery,britain, and hitler is ture, but all we did was force upon them what was wrong. Abarham Lincon was a men during the slavery times, but he realize what they were doing was worng. If he was able to open his mind, others can do the same. I do not know what would happen if we didn't do anything, i just have to put trust in people to change their ways. You could have also said, that they may have never happened, had not certain events happened prior to them. For the holocaust, one of the major events of Hitler's rise to power was the harsh treatment of German reperations by France. Quote: I am not saying for people to all act the same, just change some of their ways. Its the year 2005 already, don't you think its time for a change. you may say peace may never happen, but it has to start from somewhere even if it is small. And i am one of thoes people. If I gave the impression, that I thought it was completely impossible to make this world better, I am sorry, I never meant for that. I too, think that we need to become more tolerant. Why else would I have joined this guild? I am not saying that you are not tolerant. sorry if i made you think that i was thinking you were. sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:57 am
Quote: ...plus animals do not care for one another like humans do. All social and pack animals care for each other similarly to humans. Many primates have a well developed sense of reciprocity, and sometimes do altrustic things.
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:37 pm
Contingent Quote: ...plus animals do not care for one another like humans do. All social and pack animals care for each other similarly to humans. Many primates have a well developed sense of reciprocity, and sometimes do altrustic things. I am talking about animals as a whole. Like when i say people i mean every one asian,mexican,black,white,arabic,ect... For animals they only take care if they are related to one another, you won't ever see a lion be kind to a zebra. That is wat i am trying to point out.
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:44 pm
TheGurentai I am talking about animals as a whole. Like when i say people i mean every one asian,mexican,black,white,arabic,ect... For animals they only take care if they are related to one another, you won't ever see a lion be kind to a zebra. That is wat i am trying to point out. So you're talking about inter-species relationships? How often do you see a human being 'nice' to a parasite or 'pest'?
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:59 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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