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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:32 pm
How do you expect a creationist to listen to you when you talk about them like this? How do you expect them to listen to you when they know you think they are ignorant fools? Many are, many are not. I'm afraid the same works for those who believe evolution to be true.
In reading this, I am honestly frustrated. As a Christian who believes evolution, I want to know how I am supposed to convince my fellow Christians that evolution is true when those who believe in it act like this. It seems rather hopeless.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:10 am
You've got to understand that when we say creationists are ignorant, we aren't being mean. We are using the word in its literal meaning, that everyone who says that they do not believe in evolution is ignorant of what evolution is, for example. Young earth creationists are stubborn and smug and have no interest in the truth; they merely reiterate tired excuses without understanding what they mean, and they are feverishly anti-intellectual. We don't like them, that's why we're in the anti-creationism guild.
Young Earth creationists say they believe what they do because of unthinking obedience to ecclesiastical authority, and are willingly ignorant (as you yourself know) of science. Honestly, I've been trying for years to find a way to reach them because it's very difficult.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:44 pm
Quick side note - you sound like a concerned Christian at an evangelism meeting. I can't help but see the irony in that.
Of course it's the truth that young earth creationists are fiercly anti-intellectual and are ignorant as to what evolution is. It's the connotations those words have that are so insulting and disrespectful.
I mean, do you listen to people who obviously don't respect you and whose words are a subtle attack on your intellect?
If you plan on reaching any young earth creationist, your rhetoric has got to change. In fact, you might want to call in a Christian evolutionist. I would, except I'm rather busy with about 4 papers due within 2 weeks. Yay.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:19 am
Most of the guild is religious. 'Evolutionist' is not a group that I recognise. I am an ethical person and I care about other people, 'loving thy neighbor' is a Christian ethic so in many ways I am a good Christian. I think a loving God wouldn't care about what people said that they believed, if they were kind to one another. Any other God wouldn't be worth worshipping.
I am not religious as most people would recognise it though, in fact I am quite the opposite.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:17 pm
Yeah, see, that's another topic, one I know you don't want to debate. I'm going to resist the urge to start.
But there's something different when it's a fellow Christian saying, "No, this really doesn't contradict the Bible. It really won't kill your faith. Sure, it's hard to deal with, but it's worth the effort." Non-Christians can't relate in the same way...though it helps.
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:32 pm
I'm pretty sure Vryko Lakas, who is always flitting around in ED, jumping on the creationism threads, says that he believes in God. You really wouldn't know it to read his writings though.
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:31 pm
XD I used to run into him a lot. He's a pretty cool guy. =)
Ironically, I got trumped intellectually by people like him long before I changed my views. It helped a little bit.
My final two cents is this - the debating did make me a bit more open to evolution, but what actually did it for me was my professors being honest about the issues involved. I still don't know any of the answers...but I'm okay with ambiguity. Shoot, I'm an anthropology major, I'd better be.
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:10 am
Berezi Yeah, see, that's another topic, one I know you don't want to debate. I'm going to resist the urge to start. But there's something different when it's a fellow Christian saying, "No, this really doesn't contradict the Bible. It really won't kill your faith. Sure, it's hard to deal with, but it's worth the effort." Non-Christians can't relate in the same way...though it helps. You're forgetting former Christians. While Christians may not feel they can trust us as well (we are apostates after all and that's one hell of a sin), we can relate to how they are feeling because we were in the same boat at previous times. I do attempt to use that knowledge to put creationist fears to rest whenever possible.
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:12 am
Berezi XD I used to run into him a lot. He's a pretty cool guy. =) Ironically, I got trumped intellectually by people like him long before I changed my views. It helped a little bit. My final two cents is this - the debating did make me a bit more open to evolution, but what actually did it for me was my professors being honest about the issues involved. I still don't know any of the answers...but I'm okay with ambiguity. Shoot, I'm an anthropology major, I'd better be. I will agree that its vastly helpful to debate with a Christian or a very friendly non-Christian about evolution when you're a creationist. Considering my past I'd be just as aware of this, and the deciding factor in my change of views back then had been the quality of my debate opponents. I just don't expect everyone to be such a charmer. ^_^
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:11 pm
PoeticVengeance Berezi Yeah, see, that's another topic, one I know you don't want to debate. I'm going to resist the urge to start. But there's something different when it's a fellow Christian saying, "No, this really doesn't contradict the Bible. It really won't kill your faith. Sure, it's hard to deal with, but it's worth the effort." Non-Christians can't relate in the same way...though it helps. You're forgetting former Christians. While Christians may not feel they can trust us as well (we are apostates after all and that's one hell of a sin), we can relate to how they are feeling because we were in the same boat at previous times. I do attempt to use that knowledge to put creationist fears to rest whenever possible. A guy crossing a bridge might want to yell at the people below asking them how they fell off the gorge. Even if they yell back, 'It's way better down here!' are they necessarily going to want to follow?
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