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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:56 pm
Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: eek I never thought of that. It makes sense. That's a really fascinating notion. 8D What's even more interesting is the correlation between building a strong spiritual life and the casting off of an addictive lifestyle (AA has it as one of their very early steps, to submit oneself entirely to their Higher Power and thereby seek forgiveness and healing). As if coming to God is the only cure for a generational curse (well, it is). By the same token, being sober makes it much easier for someone to connect with their Higher Power (in AA terms). You know... I am pretty sure God is merciful enough to cure all generational curses.
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:17 pm
I guess it could be both?
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:08 pm
Osaka_DFA I guess it could be both? You mean we can earn our way into or out of heaven? No, it's in the bible and it's been addressed here. We can't earn our way into heaven. Think about it, God sees all sin the same. If you save an old woman from a burning building and turn around and lie about something the next day that would be just as bad as anything else you could do wrong, like killing people, or cheating on your spouse. We always sin because we're human, that's why we needed Jesus. It's pride to say you can do something so great on your own that would guarantee you to go to heaven.
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:48 pm
mangachan Osaka_DFA I guess it could be both? You mean we can earn our way into or out of heaven? No, it's in the bible and it's been addressed here. We can't earn our way into heaven. Think about it, God sees all sin the same. If you save an old woman from a burning building and turn around and lie about something the next day that would be just as bad as anything else you could do wrong, like killing people, or cheating on your spouse. We always sin because we're human, that's why we needed Jesus. It's pride to say you can do something so great on your own that would guarantee you to go to heaven.
Thanks for your input, though.
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:37 am
mangachan Osaka_DFA I guess it could be both? You mean we can earn our way into or out of heaven? No, it's in the bible and it's been addressed here. We can't earn our way into heaven. Think about it, God sees all sin the same. If you save an old woman from a burning building and turn around and lie about something the next day that would be just as bad as anything else you could do wrong, like killing people, or cheating on your spouse. We always sin because we're human, that's why we needed Jesus. It's pride to say you can do something so great on your own that would guarantee you to go to heaven.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:03 am
Priestley Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I learned, when you commit sin and don't repent at all when your saved ,future generation of your family can be cursed. The only loophole there is if you discover the curse you can destroy it by Faith,prayer and repentance. All it takes is one unforgiven mistake from your family's past. That... very OT now that I think about it. Since the death of Jesus, I don't really think that applies anymore. All the family curses, the animal sacrifices, the involved rituals were done away with when he came. But I think at this point in the thread are we arguing that indeed once saved is always saved, regardless of behavior after the fact. Personally, I don't think so. If you meant it in that moment but after a few weeks stopped praying, going to church, doing whatever you needed to to stay connected to God and went back to all your sinful ways without a second thought then, no, I don't think your name will be in that book at the end.
Another interesting point to note is that living in the world is alot like being addicted. One can choose to leave this life behind and follow Jesus, but every now and then we fall off the wagon, and then we try again and pick up recovery, following after Jesus. It goes back and forth. It's a process, a journey, and we all fall off the wagon now and again. So when someone stops "doing what it takes to stay connected to God" who's to say they aren't still sincere in their hearts and are just having a rough time?
I ask because Fushigi might be interested.
Now, as for it being passed on to later generations, that depends alot on how much nature and how much nurture is playing a part. There is a very large addictive quality to persons who struggle with substance abuse. Sometimes the trait manifests in substance abuse, sometimes it manifests as a gambling or shopping addiction. There is something in their brains that just needs a much higher does of serotonin and other feel-good hormones, that can't be gained from anything other than addictive behavior. By the same token, one who is not given the opportunities to become addicted likely will not. If they aren't presented with the choice to start using (or gambling or whatever), they cannot make it. Take my brother and me for example. We both got the genes in us to become substance users and abusers, because our mom used for a long time, and so did her parents, and probably her grandparents. But our environments were different. My brother stayed in the bad environment, surrounded by opportunities to use and abuse drugs, whereas I was moved to a safer environment, and was never given the opportunity to make that choice (not that I think I ever would have, because other parts of my personality don't really .... lean that way, but you get the point). However, I have to be careful with alcohol, the only drug I ever use (besides caffeine). I could easily fall into a pattern of abusing it, just because the pushing-it-to-the-limit part of addictive behavior is in me, and I am quite the sensation seeker.
So the answer to your question is yes and no. It really depends.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:05 am
Osaka_DFA mangachan Osaka_DFA I guess it could be both? You mean we can earn our way into or out of heaven? No, it's in the bible and it's been addressed here. We can't earn our way into heaven. Think about it, God sees all sin the same. If you save an old woman from a burning building and turn around and lie about something the next day that would be just as bad as anything else you could do wrong, like killing people, or cheating on your spouse. We always sin because we're human, that's why we needed Jesus. It's pride to say you can do something so great on your own that would guarantee you to go to heaven.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:34 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly Priestley Quote: Quote: Quote: I think feeling saved and being saved are two different things. But also, arguing that "doing what it takes to stay connected to God" is the basis for salvation is implying that we must actually do something other than accepting Jesus in order to be saved.
Another interesting point to note is that living in the world is alot like being addicted. One can choose to leave this life behind and follow Jesus, but every now and then we fall off the wagon, and then we try again and pick up recovery, following after Jesus. It goes back and forth. It's a process, a journey, and we all fall off the wagon now and again. So when someone stops "doing what it takes to stay connected to God" who's to say they aren't still sincere in their hearts and are just having a rough time?
I ask because Fushigi might be interested.
Now, as for it being passed on to later generations, that depends alot on how much nature and how much nurture is playing a part. There is a very large addictive quality to persons who struggle with substance abuse. Sometimes the trait manifests in substance abuse, sometimes it manifests as a gambling or shopping addiction. There is something in their brains that just needs a much higher does of serotonin and other feel-good hormones, that can't be gained from anything other than addictive behavior. By the same token, one who is not given the opportunities to become addicted likely will not. If they aren't presented with the choice to start using (or gambling or whatever), they cannot make it. Take my brother and me for example. We both got the genes in us to become substance users and abusers, because our mom used for a long time, and so did her parents, and probably her grandparents. But our environments were different. My brother stayed in the bad environment, surrounded by opportunities to use and abuse drugs, whereas I was moved to a safer environment, and was never given the opportunity to make that choice (not that I think I ever would have, because other parts of my personality don't really .... lean that way, but you get the point). However, I have to be careful with alcohol, the only drug I ever use (besides caffeine). I could easily fall into a pattern of abusing it, just because the pushing-it-to-the-limit part of addictive behavior is in me, and I am quite the sensation seeker.
So the answer to your question is yes and no. It really depends.
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:08 pm
The Amazing Jabels http://deadlysins.com/sins/index.htm Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires. Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. Please read over this list. Have you ever done one of these thngs? I'm sure you have. Everybody acts out of anger sometimes, it's only natural, right? Yet that is the sin of Wrath. Everybody wants to procrastinate every once in awhile, right? That is Sloth. I mean, seriously, does human nature actually allow one to be perfect? Perhaps it is impossible not to sin during your life? My point here is simple: perhaps those who go to Heaven are not those who sin, but those who balance their sins with good deeds, such as helping the poor and downtrodden. Perhaps certain sins (not mortal sins such as murder), such as sex outside marriage (lust) or a bit more pride in yourself than is healthy, are automatically forgiven if balanced with good deeds, as it is impossible NOT to sin, so sins are weighed against good deeds. What do you think?
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:26 am
Yamichika The Amazing Jabels http://deadlysins.com/sins/index.htm Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires. Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. Please read over this list. Have you ever done one of these thngs? I'm sure you have. Everybody acts out of anger sometimes, it's only natural, right? Yet that is the sin of Wrath. Everybody wants to procrastinate every once in awhile, right? That is Sloth. I mean, seriously, does human nature actually allow one to be perfect? Perhaps it is impossible not to sin during your life? My point here is simple: perhaps those who go to Heaven are not those who sin, but those who balance their sins with good deeds, such as helping the poor and downtrodden. Perhaps certain sins (not mortal sins such as murder), such as sex outside marriage (lust) or a bit more pride in yourself than is healthy, are automatically forgiven if balanced with good deeds, as it is impossible NOT to sin, so sins are weighed against good deeds. What do you think?
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