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 Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:27 pm
Addray ...I can't believe some of the things I'm reading in this thread... There ws one comment about only listenning to parts of the bible, not all of it... This is completely absurd. The Bible is an all or nothing deal. You shall not add nor take away from it. (I don't have the verse on me at the moment, but I'll look into it.) There was another comment about showing "CONCRETE" evidence God's real. Ok, I'll show you concrete evidence God's real when you show me concrete evidence any other religion is real. I have said it in another thread, and I might as well say it here. Any religion is based on FAITH! you cannot concretely prove or disprove any religion. you have to believe it in your heart. Which brings me to my next point. the whole follow your heart thing. This is a concept I live by everyday. You want to know why it works for me? I'm Christian! I know right from wrong. you should too. Ok, then we have the whole "Homo's are God's creations too. love them." We do love them/you all...THAT'S why we are trying to get it through their/your heads that it's wrong. We want to see you go to Heaven as much, well, maybe not as much as God does. Then there's the whole "I'd gladly take any punishment if following my heart means going to hell." You say this now...Hell is going to be worse than anything you can ever imagine. Go ahead, try. Imagine the worst thing happening over and over and over again to you for all eternity. Hell is much worse than that. Consider yourself warned. Now, for what Baka Tulip wrote. This makes a lot of sense. but, you really need to look at all the other places in the Bible where it says homosexuallity is wrong. (I don't have the scriptures on me at the moment, but will look into it.) Just because one scripture is misunderstood doesn't mean they all are. ok, my last point. Ms_Mary_Sunshine said: "Love is God's greatest creation and you nor I have no right to tamper with it." I say Amen! Just practice what you preach. this phrase is something I agree with whole heartedly. Too bad love's already BEEN tempered with. I'll say nothing more for the moment. I feel I've taken my two cents and put in $20. But, I do say, try to have at least some sense people. If you're going to try to contradict us, try to back it up. And Christians: if you'r going to back it up, remember, there is a difference between aggressive and assertive. (some ask me why I go over board like this...here's my example: When someone talks about your Momma, what is your response? "No on talks about MY Momma like that!!!" Well, no one talks about MY God like that...plain and simple.) ((I appologize for any spelling errors...I was kida in a hurry. and I don't feel like proffreading it. razz I also appologize for taking up so much room, but for nothing else. If I offended you, maybe you needed it.)) Well, what if you don't have faith in a this religion? Does that mean you'll go to a Christian hell if you're Muslum?? I mean, that don't make any sense, does it? There isn't any proof for a religion being true over any others. It does rely upon faith. I'm Lutherin (I'm having an off spelling day, don't mind me) but I interpret the religion the way that I do. No one sees it all the same. Why is religion even around? To bring people comfort in what's going to happen in the future? To give them comfort that there's something after death? I mean, it seems a very personal thing so how can everyone interpret it the same way? We had a discussion on the Bible in Sociology last year and we were reading passages taken from it and many people had different opinions on what certain selections were saying. In my opinion, it's a bit dated. It was written many, many years ago in a different language. I believe that it's impossible to think that no books within have been lost over time. Plus, ever hear 'lost in translation'. Women weren't treated well during the time it was written either but that's changed. Obviously it's a sin that my mother goes to work and my stepfather stays home with my sister, eh? That my mother makes more money and is the 'bread winner'? I don't know, that just seems to be what's being said. I don't agree with taking all or nothing. But if you're going to say that, then to do wear certain types of fabrics? Do you eat meat on Fridays? I do and I'm still Christian. I pray every night because that's what I've decided to do and guess what? I don't ask for forgiveness for eating meat Fridays. I don't ask for forgiveness for hating people or for being a jerk to someone. I mean, God can't expect everyone to be perfect. I don't know, I've been taught God is some...err entity? that's larger than life so how can we, has humans, even think about how he would react to homosexuality? As my mother says, the Bible is more of a guide. I don't think that because I went out with a girl or I may or may not find love with one that I will 'burn in hell forever'. But then, that's my belief. I can't say you're wrong anymore than I hope you dont' think you can say I'm wrong. Personally, I don't have much faith in love either. I get bored too easily to believe I can be tied down to one person for the rest of my life, male or female (ah, and I am a girl by the way). But what right does anyone have to judge someone who says they are in love? If they want to stay with someone forever and are truly devoted to them why is that wrong? How is it wrong!? I don't understand what's wrong with it? I mean, women rights have evolved. Black rights have evolved. What's wrong with gay rights evolving?
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:50 pm
...ok...I may not be answering everything you are addressing, but I would like to address some of the things said.
Why is religion around? The truth needs to be known...only problem is people have messed with it, stretched it, added to, and taken away from it...
...all or nothing...Old Testiment=old law, experience to learn from. New Testiment=replaced the old law. I'm sorry, but you really should ask forgiveness for hating someone or for being a jerk. I do every day. It something humans are cursed with...a personality. I think it's terrible that it's so easy for me to be that way...and I ask forgiveness for my wrongs.
God doesn't expect us to be perfect, but he does expect us to try. How do we know how he would react to Homosexuality? Because we do know how he did react to it. I feel somewhat bad for not having the scripture, but it's there. And yes, the Bible is a guide. Follow it.
You don't believe in love? I have only one thing to say about this...I pity you...I really do.
...what's wrong with this? God said t's wrong. We need not question Him. Women's rights have evolved, yes...but God made you woman...you really had no choice. Black's rights have evolved, yes...but God made them black, they (or you, if you are) had no choice. God did not make homosexuals homosexual. It was a choice...a rather bad choice.
Just so you know, I thank you for standing up to me. for one it takes a certain amount of Guts to do this. I don't look down on you for questioning me. wink
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:22 am
My My My, it seems as though my thread is increasingly popular... as it is with other areas in the site... But thats not the point. I thank all of you for helping me with my point of view... No, our point of view and for backing up the bible. But im not stoping now, please continue 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:16 pm
Hello everybody.
New to the guilds be patient with me, I believe in God, and I noticed that some people on here are gay, I'd like to point out I have gay friends also....Here is my opinion, I'm not judging anybody. Okay first off, God isn't an evil dictator he didn't go through a list and say your going to be straight, that girl's gonna be a bi and a lawyer, that guy is gonna be gay and be a mailman. No, that's not it. God gave everybody CHOICES, yes choices. I know I'm only 15 and I don't have proof God is real, but I do believe he is Because I believe.
I don't know a lot about life, because I am only a freshman in highschool, and I know what I believe I am againest being gay and or bi-sexual. A saying that has come up in recent e-mails God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Even though It's a little harsh, it's true. If God didn't make Adam and Eve then how are we all here today? If you give me a post back I'll send you a pm or a post back (depends on the content.) Thanks.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:42 am
i have read this post all the way through and i have to say everything has been seid. good job all of you
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:16 pm
saxy_missblonde A saying that has come up in recent e-mails God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Even though It's a little harsh, it's true. If God didn't make Adam and Eve then how are we all here today? (I'm getting this from the www.bible.com, the New International Version.) Genesis 4:16, So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Genesis 4:17, "Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch." Last I checked, incest is wrong as well. If Adam and Eve were the ONLY ones who populated the earth, then wouldn't Cain have been lying with a sister of his? Or even a niece, if some other sibling had already reproduced? My dad's take on this is that God most likely created, after Adam and Eve, other people in other places. How do we know that somewhere there wasn't an "Adam and Steve"? I don't know how many Bible passages are saying that homosexuality is wrong, as I haven't read it all the way through yet. Over the years, couldn't have somebody mis-wrote (is that a word? confused ) whatever prophets and all these guys said that God told them? I don't believe that what I feel for my girlfriend is lust alone. My love for her has been steady through almost a full year of online dating (she lives in Australia, but could be coming to America for a visit before long if she talks her dad into it). Please don't jump down my throat if it turns out my interpretations are horribly wrong or something, I am here to learn more, after all.
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:06 am
Storm_Dewleaf saxy_missblonde A saying that has come up in recent e-mails God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Even though It's a little harsh, it's true. If God didn't make Adam and Eve then how are we all here today? (I'm getting this from the www.bible.com, the New International Version.) Genesis 4:16, So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Genesis 4:17, "Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch." Last I checked, incest is wrong as well. If Adam and Eve were the ONLY ones who populated the earth, then wouldn't Cain have been lying with a sister of his? Or even a niece, if some other sibling had already reproduced? My dad's take on this is that God most likely created, after Adam and Eve, other people in other places. How do we know that somewhere there wasn't an "Adam and Steve"? I don't know how many Bible passages are saying that homosexuality is wrong, as I haven't read it all the way through yet. Over the years, couldn't have somebody mis-wrote (is that a word? confused ) whatever prophets and all these guys said that God told them? I don't believe that what I feel for my girlfriend is lust alone. My love for her has been steady through almost a full year of online dating (she lives in Australia, but could be coming to America for a visit before long if she talks her dad into it). Please don't jump down my throat if it turns out my interpretations are horribly wrong or something, I am here to learn more, after all. I was waiting for someone to come to this thread with that. ^.^ I haven't seen much in the bible saying its wrong, but i have seen that its wrong to marry. The thing with that is God put us here to eventually reproduce, male/female. Thats really the only reference i've seen. I'm not sure where i stand though, just because love is something you can't choose. you can't walk around pretending to love a guy when you don't. Its not exactly a choice when love comes around.
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:08 am
saxy_missblonde Hello everybody. New to the guilds be patient with me, I believe in God, and I noticed that some people on here are gay, I'd like to point out I have gay friends also....Here is my opinion, I'm not judging anybody. Okay first off, God isn't an evil dictator he didn't go through a list and say your going to be straight, that girl's gonna be a bi and a lawyer, that guy is gonna be gay and be a mailman. No, that's not it. God gave everybody CHOICES, yes choices. I know I'm only 15 and I don't have proof God is real, but I do believe he is Because I believe. I don't know a lot about life, because I am only a freshman in highschool, and I know what I believe I am againest being gay and or bi-sexual. A saying that has come up in recent e-mails God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Even though It's a little harsh, it's true. If God didn't make Adam and Eve then how are we all here today? If you give me a post back I'll send you a pm or a post back (depends on the content.) Thanks. very well said. ^.^ you have a strong opinion going.
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:51 pm
Ok, I finally remembered to check out my Bible on this...yeah, I know, took me long enough.
Ok, check out Leviticus 18:22.
In this chapter, God is talking to Moses I think. this says,
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
swing by Leviticus 20:13 while you're there.
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. The must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
ah, also check Romans 1:26-27. I'm not going to post that verse, cause I want you to check it out yourself...there's prolly more, just kinda tired right now...
I use NIV, by the way...
Over and Out!
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:22 am
Chaos_Angel15 Ok. To be gay is a sin. The Bible says that we should not practice it. Plus, it's just down right disgusting. If you are a christian and you become gay, you still still go to Heaven. When you are a christian, you are always a christian. =_=......Wow...now THIS is why I am an Atheist
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:25 pm
I believe that there is no unforgivable sin. Im not sure if this is in any branch of christianity but i believe that if you die a non-christian you can still go to heaven. Sure you go to hell but if you are in hell and you want god and you ask for forgivness he will forgive you and let you into heaven. It sais in the bible that if you ask your father for some food and you are starving, he will not give you a snake. And i love you more than your father. (said by god) And If you are in hell and are starving for god, if you ask for him and say your sorry he wont say, "screw you you already had your chance" he will give you some bread. He will give you himself. He loves you, he wont let you suffer after you ask for his forgivness. Also back to the subject, God made you the way you are so if you are gay he already knew, he made you that way, Its not your fault, he has a reason for it.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:43 pm
Ventrisida Alright my opinion...Yes it IS a sin however I believe that they have no choice on becoming gay or bi or whatever. It really isnt there fault to feel that way HOWEVER if they are and know it is a sin they can push back all the feelings they have. It will depress them for a while but because they arent sinning God will help rid the feelings. Some christiands or non christians howver who know its a sin doint care bcause the feeling is so deep tht they sin anyways.. I dont exactly agree on homosexuality however I respect them and think they should have the same rights as we do. It is a sin but sometimes they just cant fight against it.
They are who they are, and you need to live with it.
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:48 am
Renny Wenny Chaos_Angel15 Ok. To be gay is a sin. The Bible says that we should not practice it. Plus, it's just down right disgusting. If you are a christian and you become gay, you still still go to Heaven. When you are a christian, you are always a christian. =_=......Wow...now THIS is why I am an Atheist Whoa, Chaos_Angel, hold your horses, friend. I really don't mean to get off topic, but this really needs to be addressed. What I get from Chaos's post is the concept of "Once saved, always saved." This is just not true. It is possible to fall from grace. Want scrip not lip? Okie day. Galatians 5:4 "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Yes my friend, God gave us free will, the ability to make our own choices, but that little ability gets us in trouble from time to time. Sorry about getting off topic, but I just had to address that...
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:09 pm
Thief101.9 I just want to know what you guys think of this thread. I recently made a thread called "Debating is a snare of the devil!", check it out, i got it from a book. Please read before posting comments. Also please note that in this post, i hold no anger, no hate, nor any negative thoughts towards Homosexuals. I myself am no Homosexual, Im tottaly Hetero. Congratulations? Quote: The reason i am making this thread is because we have all seen the 'Homosexuality is wrong/right' threads, and frankly, im tired of explaining it to Homosexuals and to those who approve of it..... Also note that i will not show my opinions untill the end of this post. now it's just all facts from the Book, the bible... You've already shown your opinion, and what I've read in your post has zero basis in fact. Quote: (and to those who dont think the bible is Gods' own words and quotes) The reason i belive that it is his word is because the bible is a story than spans over 3,000 years. Amazing to belive that there are hundreds of prophecies that have come true and not one has been proven false by biblical scientists, and even now, more prophecies from the Bible are currently being slowly fulfilled. Huzzah! Quote: Homosexuality is the consequnce of rejecting the created order... God created mankind as male and female to procreate within the context of marraige. (Gen. 1:27-28; 2:18-24). Genesis 1:27-28 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Genesis 2:18-24 18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam [a] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [c] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [d] '
for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.I don't see marriage. In addition, Genesis 1:28 is a blessing, not a command. Besides which, we've filled the earth quite well and could now do with a little depopulating. Finally, saying that homosexuality is wrong because it is not mentioned is an argument from ignorance, a logical fallacy. Quote: So pretty much, Homosexual behavior should be recognized as sinful because it violates Gods's origonal plan for a Heterosexual lifestyle. Please prove God's original plan was for any lifestyle except celibacy. Quote: Paul makes comments about Homosexuality in Romans 1:18-32 (depending which type of bible you may have), that Homosexuality is one qonsequence of rejecting God as creator and his created order. Paul also indicates that Gay and lesbianism result from denial of God. He begins by showing that through rejection of the "creation" (1:20) and "the creator" (1:25) "Women exchange natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural" (1:26). He ALSO adds that men "left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed with thier lust for one another. Males commited shameless acts with other males"(1:27). Romans 1:25-32 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator�who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (NIV) Now. The first underlined word, lust, is condemned everywhere in the bible, and is not simply a condemnation of homosexuality. Using it as such is a perversion of the original texts. Next, we have a grammatical issue. The bolded words "furthermore, since" mean that what comes AFTER the "since" is the reason for condemnation by god, the second underlined portion. That's idolatry, and rejection of God, which is also condemned throughout the bible. Now, the last part, in italics, is "to do what ought not to be done". If God is giving these sinners over NOW, then they must not have actually been doing anything sinful yet. And look, the list of punishments he gives them seems to contain nearly every kind of sin in the bible! EXCEPT homosexuality. I wonder why? Quote: This is Pauls argument: 'Because these people reject God, he gives them over to the desires of thier own sinful hearts.' In the course of this text, Paul uses harsh words such as "uncleanness", "dishoner", "vile passions", "error", "debased mind", and the one that really stands out is "not fitting". in Romans 1:32, Homosexuality is deserving of death, not only to those who practice it, but to those who approve of it as well. See above. Quote: Homosexuality is a sin that results in judgement..... The first mention of Homosexuality in the bible depicts God's judgement that it is a SIN. It was mainly the outstanding trangression of Sodom and Gomorrah. The severity of the judgement, indicates the seriouseness of this sin (Genisis: 19:1-11). Both of the cities were tottaly destroyed as "the lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah with brimestone and fire" (Genisis 19:24). (brimestone can reach as much as 3,000 degrees!!!) The citites were burned to ash because thier inhabitants had given themselfs to "sexual immorality and practiced perversions" (2 Peter 2:6-7; Jude7) First off, the pronoun used in the story of Sodom and Gommorah for both the angels AND the people of the city was "enosh'im", or "they/it". It's a gender-neutral singular pronoun that has no equivalent in english, really. Secondly, Ezekiel 16:49-50 states: Quote: 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. You may say that "detestable" refers to homosexual acts, but to do so is a logical fallacy AND incorrect. "to'ebah", or "detestable", refers to treason against the Lord, and is usually used in reference to idolatry. Quote: Homosexualtity disqualifies ones entrance to Heaven...... Though it is forgivable and changeable through Jesus Christ. It is not. Reparative Therapy- Estimates of Success- Anything But Straight: Ex-Gay History- Ex-Gay Watch: News and Analysis of Ex-Gay Politics- The Ex Files: Not Your Usual Gays- Facts About Changing Sexual Orientation- Critique of Spitzer's "Ex-Gay" StudyQuote: However ungodley and undeserving of heaven any Homosexual might be, Thank you for judging. Quote: there is the opportunity to be forgiven, changed and declared rightouse through Jesus Christ ( yup, declared rightousness) There's nothing to be forgiven for. Even the most literal, out-of-context verses can't say anything other than gay sex is wrong. Quote: Paul continues in 1 Corinthians 6:11 to say, "some of you were like this", the Corinthian church evidently contained some former Homosexuals who had been converted. Furthermore, Pauls adds of them, "but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Aside from the fact that male prostitutes and homosexual offenders were mistranslated from malakoi and arsenokoites respectively, the bottom and top partners in a Roman practice called pederasty, did you consider that some people in the Corinthian church might have been, you know, the rest of the list? Sexually immoral, idolatrous, adulterous, thieving, greedy, drunken, slandering or swindling? rolleyes Quote: THE HOMOSEXUAL WHO REPENTS AND BELIVES RECIVES THE SAME CLEANSING, SANTIFICATION, AND JUSTIFICATION AS EVERY OTHER BELIVER WHO TURNS FROM SIN TO CHRIST. True. We're all sinners, and being gay doesn't change that. ^-^ Quote: Now for my thoughts... God doesn't hate Homosexuals, thats a mistake some christians may make, but they still have time to learn. You see, having the Holy Spirit is like being 'born again', but differently, you see the world in a whole new way. A way that tell you the truth. Some people say "well ive been a christian for ten years and it didn't turn out good for me"... well, perhaps it's you who didn't do to well to the foundation of christianity. It's a weakness alot of "so called Christians" have, when trouble comes along, they give up... well thats what christian living is. it's the hardest thing in the world to live as a 100% perfect Christian, nothing is harder than that. As Jesus Christ say's, "come with me and hold a cross of your own", it means that we have to follow him with heavy burdons. Everyone has time to learn. I don't appreciate your taking something that's applicable to everyone and turning it into a diatribe against a specific group. Quote: As i said, God doesn't ahte Homsexuals, he HATES the ACTS and THOUGHTS of Homosexuality. Prove Quote: He killed most of the poeple in Sodom and Gommorah because they were so sinful. 3,000 degrees of brimestone destroying a wicked city is how much God Detests/ Hates Homosexuality. O_o Did you go back in time with a thermometer? Quote: ---------- Please tell me if any of the information is wrong, i'd like to fix on 'em and stuff. You know... It's wrong.
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:23 pm
Purified Ace Renny Wenny Chaos_Angel15 Ok. To be gay is a sin. The Bible says that we should not practice it. Plus, it's just down right disgusting. If you are a christian and you become gay, you still still go to Heaven. When you are a christian, you are always a christian. =_=......Wow...now THIS is why I am an Atheist Whoa, Chaos_Angel, hold your horses, friend. I really don't mean to get off topic, but this really needs to be addressed. What I get from Chaos's post is the concept of "Once saved, always saved." This is just not true. It is possible to fall from grace. Want scrip not lip? Okie day. Galatians 5:4 "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Yes my friend, God gave us free will, the ability to make our own choices, but that little ability gets us in trouble from time to time. Sorry about getting off topic, but I just had to address that... Whoa whoa, hold your horses friend, once saved always saved is a true concept, what you have to worry about is who is truly saved.
Rom 8:39 "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Joh 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
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