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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:06 pm
Rivendelle did God not say He would not permit His godly to slip and fall verse?Rivendelle did God not say if you ask for forgiveness you will be forgiven He did.Rivendelle did God not say nothing can take us out of His hand think Free will. Nothing can TAKE you, but you can go away on your own.Rivendelle Is God a liar? NO! did God not give us His Spirit when we believed, why would God's own Spirit blaspheme against His own spirit... something to think about biggrin God cannot lie.
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:02 pm
Mr.Licorice I disagree. No ne can snatch you from the Father's hand, true, unless you jump out of it first. My point is that if you were truly Christian to begin with you wouldn't jump out of His hand in the first place. Quote: God doesn't take back His Holy Spirit but we can reject it. *hint* Free-will. Very true, but (as stated before) after you accept the LORD Jesus Christ into your heart, it's done. True Christians wouldn't turn back.Quote: Sins do not take our salvation from us. Agreed. Quote: Please remember that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us. Indeed. Quote: But sinning while living and living in sin are two different things. Yes, and true Christians wouldn't live in their sin without doing something about it.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:04 pm
The pasted material from the site "Truth or Tradition" entitled "25 Reasons Why Salvation Is Permanent For Christians" is certainly tradition (Baptist) and not truth.
The bible is screaming on vertually every page of sacred writ that one can loose his salvation through carelessness, neglect, or sin. It is true that salvation is by the grace of God but that does not mean that one cannot fall from grace. Gal. 5:4 says "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." No amount of sophistry can say that one was not really in grace to begin with. You cannot fall from something unless you were first in it. Paul was writing to Christians in Galatia when he said this. They were in grace but were soon to loose it if they were not careful.
II Peter 2:22 was quoted in the article that the dog returned to his vomit again and the hog to the mud hole. In this context, Peter was warning Christians about the possibility of apostasy.
I Corinthians 10:12 says, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." This is not a bogus warning. Paul was trying to tell these Christians something. Some of you, by your replies, are ignoring Paul's admonition, as if you could not fall. I think I'll take the bible instead of your opinions. The bible says you can fall and lose your salvation.
In I Corinthians 9:7 Paul said about himself, "But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." I guess some of you think yourselves to be better than the great apostle Paul. He preached that he had to be careful about his salvation lest he be cast away.
Hebrews 6:4-6 says, "For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."
In light of this passage, how can anyone say a Christian cannot loose his/her salvation? Salvation demands not only faith but faithful attention. II Peter 1:10, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." Salvation IS ALWAYS SPOKEN AS CONDITIONAL this side of eternity.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:27 pm
what was that last part? ye shall never fall? wonder what that means...the point is Jesus said that if we confess our sins we shall be forgiven and that if we trust Christ to give the victory then we're saved but...
I'm going to try and be opened mineded about all this cause I too go by what the Bible says not opinion, so how would one go about losing their salvation?
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:49 pm
Mr.Licorice Rivendelle did God not say He would not permit His godly to slip and fall verse?Rivendelle did God not say if you ask for forgiveness you will be forgiven He did.Rivendelle did God not say nothing can take us out of His hand think Free will. Nothing can TAKE you, but you can go away on your own.Rivendelle Is God a liar? NO! did God not give us His Spirit when we believed, why would God's own Spirit blaspheme against His own spirit... something to think about biggrin God cannot lie. Oh yeah that verse is Psalms 55:22 about God not allowing His godly to slip and fall, and how are we supposed to jump out if no one can take us?
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:12 pm
Rivendelle what was that last part? ye shall never fall? wonder what that means...the point is Jesus said that if we confess our sins we shall be forgiven and that if we trust Christ to give the victory then we're saved but... I'm going to try and be opened mineded about all this cause I too go by what the Bible says not opinion, so how would one go about losing their salvation? "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." This says if you do what is asked and required of you, you won't fall. It is understood to mean if these things are NOT done, you will fall. This is like where God told Noah, "Use gopher wood to build the ark," (this is very much paraphrased). He didn't have to say, "don't use oak, cherry, pine, willow, etc. to make the ark." It was understood. So here, it must be understood as well that only by doing these things will you not fall. If the command is disobeyed, you will fall.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:31 pm
so if we do something wrong we lose what we didn't have to do to obtain, You're begin logical, but then again no...
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:33 pm
Rivendelle Oh yeah that verse is Psalms 55:22 about God not allowing His godly to slip and fall, and how are we supposed to jump out if no one can take us? Free will, it is a God given gift, meaning humans are given the liberty to make decisions. Christians included. God isn't forcing us to follow Him. It is our choice that we follow Him. Having said this, it is quite clear that we can chose whether or not to "jump" from his hand. I apologize if my explanation isn't clear enough. mistressofthelost has explained it all and given the verses. I will not continue to argue. You yourselves know whether you are a true christian or not. Paul is merely trying to warn us of the consequences when we allow oursleves to slip continue to dwell in the "worldly" ways.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:36 pm
okay, just remember that God birthed in us a new life, and Gave us His spirit, we no longer walk by our old ways even though our flesh is weak... wink
besides, as long as we as christians have full faith in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, does it really matter
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:41 pm
Amen to Glorified Soul's post. 3nodding It seems like IF salvation weren't permanent (and I believe it is), then it would be like Christ had never died for us...you know what I mean? I'm not good with words, so I'll stop for now. xd
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:49 pm
*thinks to self* hmm starting to compromise not good, stay with the word of God, Jesus will tell you the truth
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:02 pm
wait. someone has to be there in order for you to to be saved, like someone has had to be witnessed to it?WTC? (what the crap) ...but i know im saved. I feel I am saved. God would not give me that feeling, would not lie like that... but i was alone when..ok crap. (if you addressed this later on, I am sorry; I did not read it all through) crap....
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:55 pm
seacret_cie wait. someone has to be there in order for you to to be saved, like someone has had to be witnessed to it?WTC? (what the crap) ...but i know im saved. I feel I am saved. God would not give me that feeling, would not lie like that... but i was alone when..ok crap. (if you addressed this later on, I am sorry; I did not read it all through) crap.... No, there doesn't have to be another person there. Where did you get that idea?
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:00 am
chaotic century haha a few of the members in my youth group had this debate. and what me and my bro concluded is that, it can't be lost by doing bad deeds or anything. but if you did start turning away from God the question wouldnt be whether or not u lost your salvation but did u even have it to begin with? Because if you were in Christ then y would you want to do anything to compromise that? this is realy awesome glorified soul! you make a good poiint smile i totally agree!
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:33 pm
Being saved (baptized) is not a guarantee into heaven. True, if you are baptized and truly want to be saved and a Christian, you won't stray. BUT Baptism takes away your sins. It also gives you a connection wsith God to pray for forgiveness. But if you stray from the path and do not ask for forgiveness, you will not be forgiven. You must ask. If a man is baptized but does not act like a Christian should, he will go to Hell. Blunt but correct.
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