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 Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:16 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly I agree with ryuu. God gave us science so we could better understand Him. For alot of people, it's not enough to just accept that God exists. When you break everything down into its many, many, many smaller parts, it becomes virtually impossible to accept that anything or anyone but God created the universe. When we see and understand how complex the universe is, it makes it easier to accept God, because we know that something so complicated could not have occurred by chance, that our being here is either really, really, really lucky, or the result of a Creator's wonderful imagination.
Just because people use science to disprove God doesn't mean that that was why God gave it to us. That's like saying sex is bad because people abuse it. Sex is not bad- it's a gift, and we can fully appreciate it when we use it for God's glory. The same with science. Our minds need science. They just do. God wants us to use it for His glory, so we can see all the wonders of the universe that He has created, and so we can praise Him for them. Without science, our world is very small, and our praise for God even moreso.
Being a science lover, bisexual, and a total Jesus/God fanatic, I tip my hat to you, Fushigi. Wonderfully said.
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:44 am
Shizuka_Haruka133 Hey there.
I know I may sound kind of rude, but I would just like to say that not being a homosexual is not in the Ten Commandments... why is that? xp For the same reason that Jesus didn't see it important enough in his three years here to have any of his thoughts on the matter written down about it. wink
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:05 pm
Lethkhar CrystalMind Lethkhar My question is why God would make someone be born with the inclination to be homosexual, if homosexuality is a sin. The only response that I can give is as follows. Romans 1:21-27 NIV For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. That pretty much says it all right there. So being born with a tendency to be homosexual is a punishment? Are you telling me that infants are born having already angered God? That passage is an historic account of a specific instance, not a generalization of the human situation. And you guys get on my case for taking things out of context... First, I do not believe that I'm the one who 'got on your case'. Please don't generalize that way. Second, I don't claim to have every answer to every question, only God himself knows all the answers. I can only do my best to represent the teachings of Scripture as they were passed on to me. In regards to the passage being taken 'out of context', I've never considered it that way. Looking over the verses that come before the passage I quoted, it seems more a summary of the wickedness of mankind in general. ...Of course, I don't speak ancient Greek, so I admit I might be missing something. What I need to do it get a literal translation. (You know, with the Greek on one side and the English on the other?) I've seen them, but I've never bought one. But I digress. My point was that the answers are there in the Bible for those who know to seek them. To me, the passage seems to point to homosexual activities as a result of man's sinful nature, and that instead of eradicating the desire, God has 'given us over' to our sins, unless we seek him. But hey, none of us are theologians that I know of. How can we truely know? I don't think we can. We can argue about this topic for eternity, and still get nowhere, because neither side is willing to let go of their own thoughts.
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:41 pm
Something I just noticed;
Some ppl are saying 'Oh, well Christ never said anything against it, nor does the Ten Commandments.' Well, what about the rest of the Bible? Why have it if that's going to be all we follow?
Now, the Bible says(or implies(Sodom)) atleast five times that homosexuality is a sin. Not only in the OT, but also in the NT(Romans).
And also, while Christ never says anything against it(or about it, for that matter), He never says anything for it.
No where in the Bible is there a quote for homosexuality!
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:49 pm
One more thing; If society still said homosexuality is bad, would you still think it's ok?
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:48 pm
masumi5 One more thing; If society still said homosexuality is bad, would you still think it's ok?
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:03 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly masumi5 One more thing; If society still said homosexuality is bad, would you still think it's ok?
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:53 am
Politically (at least in America), it seems that homosexuality is a no-no. Socially ... or ... at least ... on an individual level, it seems that most people have a live and let live attitude. If individuals had the view of the politicians, that would basically be like society saying homosexuality is bad. confused
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:06 pm
masumi5 One more thing; If society still said homosexuality is bad, would you still think it's ok? Society...does, on the whole, say homosexuality is bad. Also, hands up here, everyone who doesn't eat meat with blood in it - ever? And nerve touched a woman during a period/been touched by a man during her period? And who has/plans to have all their male kids circumsised? And who makes offerings so many weeks after being pregnant? Unless you do/would do all these things (and quite a lot of other things besides), you cannot quote leviticus as a source for saying that men shouldn't sleep together. Because all these rules are in there two - and some are in faaaar more depth than the one about men not sleeping together.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:59 pm
It does, and it doesn't. While the majority of the U.S. does think gay marriage is wrong, the media doesn't. And apparently, neither do public schools(even if the parent disagrees).
And while the majority says no, you don't hear it a lot(not as much as them anyways stare ).
Ok, lets take the focus off the OT, and on to the NT.
I think we should focus a lot on the first sentence below.
"Romans" A book in the NT
1:26-27:
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:"
Vile, meaning putrid, bad.
It mentions God in this! For this cause.
'Giving them up', I think that means it's harder for us to stay chaste, which is probly why everyone is so sex crazed!
"for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"
even women, meaning women did it too. Note they use the word natural. Natural: 'without people changing it'
"And likewise also the men,"
The men were doing it too.
"leaving the natural use of the woman,"
again, they use the word natural. And by use, I take it they mean sex.
"burned in their lust one toward another;"
Lust: intense or unbridled sexual desire
"men with men working that which is unseemly,"
Unseemly: 'not according with established standards of good form or taste'
And once again, I believe they are talking about sex.
"and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
recompence: backward, against
Error: wrong
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:08 pm
masumi5 While the majority of the U.S. does think gay marriage is wrong, Luckily, that's changing rapidly. That's an untrue statement. It depends on what media corporation you choose. Quote: And apparently, neither do public schools(even if the parent disagrees). Yeah...God forbid public schools don't discriminate people. stare Quote: And while the majority says no, you don't hear it a lot(not as much as them anyways stare ). Yeah...Those damn gay people trying to secure equal liberties. scream What gives them the right to be vocal about their civil rights? rolleyes Oh, right. stare The first amendment. And honestly, it's you homophobic people that brought up the subject in the first place. Gay marriage shouldn't even really be an issue, and trust me when I say that gays probably wouldn't complain if you stopped trying to deny them basic human rights.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:08 pm
It shouldn't really matter about what the people want, it should be what God requires. Homosexuality is immoral as is to a lot of other practices.
In more than one place does it talk of sexually immoral practices. Homosexuality being one of them.
Ex. Leviticus 18 & Romans 1
Lev 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin
Rom 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.
Rom 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
Rom 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Rom 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
Besides if we had to grant equal rights of marriage to homosexuals, then how is that different from saying the same to other people that practice such immorality like marrying direct family members, animals, or even having multiple wives?
Marriage or relationship, it's still immoral in God's eyes. We still need to keep that in mind.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:37 pm
Darkx_xAngelx_x237 It shouldn't really matter about what the people want, it should be what God requires. Homosexuality is immoral as is to a lot of other practices. In more than one place does it talk of sexually immoral practices. Homosexuality being one of them. Ex. Leviticus 18 & Romans 1 Lev 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen. Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Rom 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. That's a matter of opinion. You have no rational reason to deny gays the right to marry. You have a book. Quote: Besides if we had to grant equal rights of marriage to homosexuals, then how is that different from saying the same to other people that practice such immorality like marrying direct family members, Because homosexuals can't reproduce with one another, and therefore cannot even be at risk for passing on a genetic disease. It's simple, really: Gay people aren't animals. They can consent, unlike animals. Quote: or even having multiple wives? Quite frankly, I don't really have an issue with polygamy. As long as everyone is consenting, I don't see why it's a big deal. I don't really agree with it, but I recognize their right to do what they want in that respect. They're not hurting anyone. A lot of people in the Bible didn't seem to have an issue with polygamy, either... Quote: Marriage or relationship, it's still immoral in God's eyes. We still need to keep that in mind. That's your opinion. Nonetheless, if you're going to appeal to a power higher than that of U.S. law then there's really no reason for you to worry about U.S. law. After all, according to your book, God is really the only one with the right to judge people. You really have no right to impose anything on anyone based on a possibly fallable interpretation of a book.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:24 pm
masumi5 Something I just noticed; Some ppl are saying 'Oh, well Christ never said anything against it, nor does the Ten Commandments.' Well, what about the rest of the Bible? Why have it if that's going to be all we follow? Now, the Bible says(or implies(Sodom)) atleast five times that homosexuality is a sin. Not only in the OT, but also in the NT(Romans). And also, while Christ never says anything against it(or about it, for that matter), He never says anything for it. No where in the Bible is there a quote for homosexuality! Well, if we're going with implications, look at Jonathan and David. Or Ruth and Naomi. Either of those close friendships could be interpreted as a gay relationship. I mean, what Ruth said to Naomi is used as wedding vows, gay and straight! (But Ruth replied, "Don't urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. -Ruth 1:16) I could go into my typical history lesson here on the various verses, but I think I'll save that for it's own post. *wink* Darkx_xAngelx_x237 Besides if we had to grant equal rights of marriage to homosexuals, then how is that different from saying the same to other people that practice such immorality like marrying direct family members, animals, or even having multiple wives? Forgive me if this comes out EXTREMELY harsh-sounding, but I can't believe I just read such an ignorant statement in this guild. You're comparing gay people -- thinking, caring, loving beings -- to animals? I've always hated this argument because it puts homosexuals so far beneath the rest of us that it's inhumane. I mean, Massachussetts has had legalized gay marriage for a few years now and there's no rampant sibling marriages, hellfire and brimstone flying about or someone wanting to marry their toaster. Same thing in Canada. I mean, the thing we should be worried about is something like the fact that American still practices the death penalty when one of our first commandments is 'thou shalt not kill.' I think being in direct violation of that in our very judicial system is a little more dire than legalizing a love-match. And, just to lighten the tone a little... The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:53 pm
ryuu_chan And, just to lighten the tone a little... The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
And I agree with your point about Massachussettes and other places legalizing gay marriage. The leap from same sex marriage to marrying families, animals, and inanimate objects is a pretty big leap, and everywhere else that's legalized gay marriage hasn't like... exploded yet.
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