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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:29 pm
GTB REVISIONS RULES AND REGULATIONS - SUGGESTED A thread for participants of the tournament to showcase their characters from either an IC or OOC perspective. Status: Included. Make KB the winner of the GTB. Status: Rejected.Staff representation IC/OOC, expanded definition and suggestions. Status: Under Consideration.
Put simply, the presence of the Staff ( or at least Judges ) either ICly or OOCly, if not both. Given the minor needs of GTB staff in overall story events and management, the presence of referees is something that requires minimal but constant attention. Like fighters who need to post at least once a day, the Judges should be reading the fights at least once a day in order to be caught up. This is made a lot easier when fights are divided amongst the Judges, enabling them to track their handful of fights.
The benefits of this are varied.
One, it allows Judges to intervene either ICly or OOCly when they feel there has been a rule infraction or something isn't going the way it should. The players may not immediately recognize the problem, or, they may be dealing with the issues themselves incorrectly. The presence of a Judge allows for the problems to be nipped in the bud and right any problems before they have continued to the point of disrepair - saving time and energy for everyone with minimal intervention.
Second, the presence of the Judge assigned the fight to score allows them to build a general idea of their scoring DURING the fights. This cuts down on the time needed to judge significantly, since by the time the fight ends the Judge should only need to read and grade those last few posts. Again, checking these things daily is easy enough ( checking 5-7 fights a day, should be easy if you're just reading ) but makes an incredible difference. By reading the fight you can already tell who is writing better, fighting better, and roleplaying better. Altogether, you can form a general shape of your judging structure and then polish it off after things have concluded. Again, this saves everyone a lot of time and energy, as well as cuts down on tournament wait time.Scoring expanded and suggestions. Status: Under Consideration.
The scoring system for GTB uses a readily identifiable and easy to understand point system where fighters are graded on key aspects of their matches. Unfortunately, a lack of a rigid scoring standard lends the system an askew representation of the fights when relying on numbers alone. To that end, a yay or nay system of approval by the Judges is often considered to be the overruling method of determining a winner or loser. An odd number of judges should be used for this ( minimum 3 ) in order to achieve a definite result.
The score system should reflect the decision of the judges, with a tie equally a tied score, a loss equaling a lesser score, and a win featuring a higher score for one player than his/her opponent. The scores themselves are a framework for judging that helps to put their decision into perspective, as well as reflect for players areas that the judges feel they need to work on.
If the scores aren't consistent or unaminous, this reflects a bias. Chances are that a majority of Judges will not succumb to a distinct bias, so, it is safe to go with the majority decision. Additionally, a numbers game played against the overall decision of judges can be used to negatively represent the true outcome of a fight.
ROUND TABLE expanded definition and suggestions. Status: Under Consideration.
A ROUND TABLE? WHAT WITCHCRAFT IS THIS?!
To put it simply, the Round Table system is one where all the people taking a place in the dicussion are put on equal terms. The person running the guild, as well as other members of the staff, all hold the same position of power when involving themselves in a Round Table discussion. This level of equality means that majority decisions rule and solidify themselves.
RULES EXPANDED. Status: Under Consideration.
+ The use of healing abilities in a match is prohibited. Characters with the ability to heal themselves may do so between matches, but not during their fight. Keep in mind that you and your opponent are being scored not only for how you give damage, but take it as well. Removing the wounds and the way you've reacted to them might as well be subtracting from your own score, so, just don't do it.
+ Attacking Judges is prohibited. Any attempt to manipulate or harm a Judge will be severely punished, with possible disqualification. This means both ICly and OOCly. ICly you may find yourself disqualified or worse, as the GTB is considered canon and Judges wield considerable powers. The fate of your character should you choose to test the boundaries might be worse than death.
+ Character Death - Penalties. A contraversial yet necessary rule that adds an extra layer of protection to participants. If a character dies their opponent will be disqualified and they will be revived, but not without a price. This ensures that players will do the most possible to keep themselves alive ( within limits ) and discourage any attempt to take a fall in order to win. The penalties suffered will vary depending on the situation, at the Judge's discretion.UPDATE Due to the large number of abilities related to enhanced healing or shorter "downtimes" and the no active healing clause ( in fights ) of the tournament, I think there should be a rule addressing these abilities as extraneous. It's simply information that becomes irrelevant when you consider the basically inexhaustible resources of the tournament's medical personnel. That being said, it's just more to read and sucks up precious time and the overall length of profiles.
Suggested, is a rule that reads something like,
+ Due to the nature of the GTB character wounds sustained are dealt with according to their severity in the Infirmary. Any range of wounds can be handled by tournament personnel, including death. With this in mind there is no reason to include superficial healing abilities that are only active outside of battle, as it is assumed characters have their wounds addressed at the end of each match. ---
More to come.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:50 pm
SCORING SYSTEM, CONTINUED THOUGHTS.
The scoring system is basically a way of determining a winner and loser for each round of the bracket. It determines who will continue in their bracket and who will fall out of it. This being the case, the scores made by Judges should reflect who they think is the winner and who they think is the loser of each particular fight, for each round.
It is a very solid and unforgiving way of ruling, but it is the only appropriate one. The gap by which one fighter beat another is negligible when one has indeed won. If Judges aren't sure about who won the fight, they should mark it as a tie. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, which the GTB is not.
In essence, this means the Judges need to be confident about their decisions. If a Judge isn't confident enough to make a solid decision then they shouldn't make one. The point system is meant to reflect who the judge thought won, not the margin by which they won. If this was the case, points would need to be regulated in the way they are in racing to make sure that a single opinion did not undermine the others.
Consider, if you will, back to your Mario Kart days.
Winning a race in the mushroom cup with first place would afford you a number of points. Though I can't recall specifically, I believe it was something like 10. This meant that for each race out of the tournament you would win a number of points for how you did.
It was a regulated series of numbers, like, 10 for first, 8 for second, and 6 for third ( or something like that ).
This meant that if you won 1st place twice and 2nd place once, you'd have a score of 28, and your opponent in a 1v1 logically, would have 8, 8, and 10, or, 26. Even though you lose in the eyes of one of the judges ( or lost one of the races, in this metaphor ) you still win because you pulled ahead significantly. If you had lost, tied, won, you would still be at a tie ( indicative of a tie which would occur because two judges disagreed and one did not make a tiebreaking decision ). If you lose two, obviously you would have a reversal of the above point score.
Using this system of appropriated points, as long as you've won the majority of your races you will always win. This reflects the absolute nature of a win vs a loss.
It is my suggestion, therefore, that the system of point average be second to majority decision. The purpose of a bracketed tournament is to determine winners and losers, not to determine the averages of its members and compare them to one another. Its the same way in a sports tournament - one team can easily average better than another in every facet of their ability, but if they lose in the games that count then they will in fact, lose, even if they have a better "average" as deduced by numbers.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:00 pm
PROFILE SCREENING
Allow me to drop my professionalism for a moment.
JESUS ******** THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CONSISTENCY.
Thank you. Now, as well all know, profiles are something that are required in order to determine the fairness of characters being submitted to the tournament. Obviously in order for this to work, there need to be solid guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable in a profile. The complete rules list was is prohibited, but, they do not build a very clear cut picture on what is acceptable outside of those boundaries. To that end there should be a codex that fleshes out the expectations of the tournament, and this should only change when there is a need for it to change. Any Staff taking part should memorize the codex and be able to uniformly adhere to it.
Also, it might not hurt to have a section in the guild where the Judges can post the exact profiles sent to them and their notes, if any, on what should be changed. This would allow all the judges to know exactly what is being submitted by the players, as well as allow them to voice any concerns or objections they may have. Remember, the tournament's starting date can be tentative, and you can take profiles BEFORE giving a concrete start time, allowing you to give thought to the issues BEFORE they become real problems.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:04 pm
RULES EXTENDED BIGGER THICKER LONGER MORE PLEASING
An IC rule with an OOC warning, or perhaps an IC one as well, depending.
+ Participants will be held accountable for their canonical actions within the tournament. As the GTB is a professional sporting event with high security presence participants are expected to obey the laws. Committing crimes against NPC tournament personnel or others and getting caught will result in punishments suiting the crime as determined by IC forces ( tournament supervisors or law enforcement ).
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:17 pm
MORE THOUGHTS REGARDING JUDGES/STAFF and PARTICIPANTS
The Staff is in charge of making the guild and tournament run smoothly, but they are people with real problems and issues. Though they take an active part out of guild will or a desire to see the community flourish, they should be held accountable to similar standards as participants. One of the easiest things for judges to adhere to is transparency.
There is a notification thread for absences, it should be used by players and Staff alike when the need arises. There is no reason for the Staff to be held to unreasonable standards - if they encounter problems that take them away from their responsibilities they should inform people of it.
This is actually better for everyone, in that,
- Cuts down on complaints regarding late scoring or judging, since the reason is documented and worthwhile.
- Encourages Judges to take an active role and face their responsibilities as soon as possible. Once they have completed their task they will have free time, which is a good feeling.
- Allows for fellow Staff members to take over responsibilities of others ( should they choose to do so ) and allows the players to see this change of hands. This keeps everyone informed of the grading and scoring traffic, so that players and Staff alike aren't confused as to the status of their fights.
- Encourages overall communication.
Just as the tournament participants are expected to post regularly and be active in the guild, as well as inform of absences, judges should be the same. It is not very fair for a player to be docked points on their fight if they do not post within time constraints simply because they chose to put it off, while Judges have the luxury of making them ( and others ) wait for whatever reason. Furthermore, when these reasons aren't made plain it raises questions as to the integrity of the staff, and their dedication to the tournament.
CONTINUED THOUGHTS
While the Staff is not reimbursed for their activity in the tournament, only a select few of the participants are as well. Namely, the 1-4 top players of the tournament, as the others get nothing except for their fun fighting ( if they had fun ). To that end, it might be best to have a portion of the pot dedicated to giving the Judges a fraction of the winnings for their efforts.
To offset any implications that this might be a scam of some sort, you could also make a margin dedicated to a "consolation prize" where the tournament participants are rewarded for their efforts even if they don't win the main prize. With a good set of donations these fractions can be good enough to placate the Staff/Participants, while not detracting from the main prize too heavily. At a first place prize of 1.8mil, ( and combined prizes from 1st to 4th ) it wouldn't make a huge difference to subtract 200k of it and divide it amongst the tournament.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:38 pm
SAVE YOURSELF THE HASSLE
Make this a tournament for living creatures. That's right, no undead, no golems, nothing that is going to be ramming through all the living fighters or sucking them dry. The tournament design doesn't really facilitate the presence of such fighters, so why bother allowing them? It causes more problems then it does showcase enjoyable matches.
LIFTING/RUNNING OMFG BALANCE
If you remove the robots and the ghoulies, you're left with characters that have proportionate strength/size ratios. That is, unless for some reason you've allowed someone in that mimics the key abilities of the unliving and of constructs, which would defeat the purpose of barring them.
To this end, you begin to form a scale between strength and speed, or raw power and agility. As you move along from one end of the spectrum to the other, you detract your ability from the opposite. This forms a very fair and balanced system of measuring a character's strength and speed, while still letting them define their character through the expression of their "stats".
The important part is making a set standard.
Let's say, for example, that your average joe that plays baseball occasionally is your standard. He is physically fit, so he is both average in agility and strength. He can carry a normal amount of weight ( can lift 50lbs ) and can perform normal ranges of movement. A woman, by contrast, might decide to scale herself slightly more towards AGILITY as opposed to STRENGTH, in order to represent her smaller and more nimble frame, whilst being somewhat physically weaker than the man. Not a requirement, but a reflection of societal norms.
Now, if you want to scale yourself to STRENGTH further and further, you gain the ability for raw weightlifting and such. This is represented by the bulk of your muscles, which detracts from your mobility and increases your chances of being struck ( because you're bigger, you hit harder but have a harder time defending yourself ). This system works the same way in reverse, you can dodge a lot easier by being small and AGILE, but you won't pack as big a punch. This is why when a big guy lands a hit on a smaller guy, he only really needs to land one, and is lucky when he does ( in the case of really strong guys vs really agile guys ).
Now, in the context of a fighting tournament like this you'd probably change your STANDARD from AVERAGE JOE to something like... MEGAMAN ( I don't know why the ******** I'm using him ).
Basically, a fighter who is in the middle of STRENGTH and AGILITY, but whose ability in these stats is significantly above that of your average grocer. Why? Because the tournament is catering to fighters and people who have mastered special abilities outside of regular, real life.
When you set a standard like this, it allows characters to expand in either direction more freely without worrying about the immediate effect.
For example, say you want to be AGILE, but you don't want to be too weak. You want to build like.. Jubei, for example. You can scale from your starting character point as determined by the TOURNAMENT STAFF and then say, well, I'm a bit more agile then that guy... but that doesn't make me as weak as joe.
Your opponent, by contrast, might scale in the opposite direction be a bit STRONGER but doesn't want to be as bulky as your average football player. In both instances the players are equally one another's shifts in the opposite direction, but the direct effect on their character's overall design is less pronounced because of their higher starting standard. This is how you can build a STRONGER ninja than usual while still being able to fulfill the basic requirements of being a ninja, whereas the other person can make a more agile ninja without needlessly sacrificing their ability to land a killing blow or hold their own in combat.
An added benefit of this universal STANDARD is the power level it sets. It's not only STRENGTH and AGILITY that can benefit from having an omnistandard representation of tournament contestants. The same thing can be applied to spellcasters vs melee fighters, ranged vs up close and personal, etc etc.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:54 pm
ALL YOUR BASE
It should become tournament standard to perform a background check on the Staff. If someone applies wanting to be staff and they aren't good enough for the job or have a history of messing things up, they shouldn't take the selected position. Refer back to the ROUND TABLE section for determining who this influences.
Like say, Vintrict. Say for example you thought Vintrict was a horrible judge, for whatever reason. If he's shown he can't judge, or whatever, then don't let him! Who cares if he's owning and operating the tournament? ROUND TABLE! All the Staff should be equal when it comes to judging or other responsibilities, so they should all be held accountable. To that end... you can have a pro artist who doesn't know how to fight, or a guild owner who is crazy... it doesn't matter because you simply bar them from the judging position.
Similarly, you could have a great judge who really sucks at story writing. You wouldn't have that person take part in leading the story if they can't do it.
I mean, you can have a janitor at a nuclear power plant and that doesn't mean he's qualified to run the place.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:44 pm
Its nice and all, but Vintrict can ultimately ban anyone he wants to from the guild.
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:49 pm
DISCUSSION - Pending deletion
-KB
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:03 pm
Extend Round 2 by a few days due to the 4th.
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:37 pm
Old Man KB Irrelevant. Anyone can run the GTB, in fact, I don't think the GTB is even Vintrict's intellectual property. Clash invented it, or some such. If Vintrict just decided to close it down and people wanted a GTB, they could make their own. I understand your point, but self-control on the behalf of the person running the tournament is very important. It doesn't really matter what position someone has as Crew/Vice Captain/Guild Captain in their ability to Judge and things like that. The GGN is just set up in such a way that the only way for people to access restricted areas is to be Crew. Just like you can have a Staff member who is an artist and not Crew in the guild, the guild Owner can not be involved in Judging and things like that, either. Self control like the kind that gave you a 16 on the first round? I mean, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but if you don't like the way things are run, then gather up a bunch of people willing to contribute and make your own GTB. Its a far better '******** you' then posting a bunch of suggestions that Vintrict may or may not give a s**t about, as well as insulting him constantly in the OOC thread.
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:49 pm
All in all, I don't think Vintrict would have -made- a suggestion thread, if he didn't want people to make suggestions to him.
What KB does in the OOC thread might be retarded. But what he has put right here are a bunch of pretty decent points which I am sure all the judges and many other participants have looked at and taken something from.
Vin included.
/Elli's 2 cents.
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:07 pm
DEFINING CONCEPTS FOR ESTABLISHING STANDARD
AGILITY - STRENGTH INTELLIGENCE - CONSTITUTION
PHYSICAL POWER - SPELLPOWER MELEE - RANGED
EQUIPMENT - ABILITIES
Agility - Agility is basically the mobility and versatility of a character's body, their ability to conform to different shapes or stretch. The overall speed and manueverabiliy of the character allows them to dodge more easily as well as strike weak spots.
Strength - Strength is the raw physical capacity of the character to interact with the environment around them. It represents striking power, lifting capacity, and associated things. A strong character is often larger than his peers ( to scale ) and does more damage.
Intelligence - Intelligence is a character's overall analytical ability and represents their aptitude for educational pursuits. A highly intelligent character often pursues the relative comforts of schools or intellectual forums to the detriment of worldly experience.
Constitution - Constitution is the overall health of a character and their ability to endure bodily harm. A character with a high CON represents someone who has endured the elements and a variety of other hazards. Typically the pursuits that lead an individual towards these things robs them of the opportunity to attend advanced classes or courses.
Physical Power - Physical power represents a character's mastery or potence in fighting with martial weapons or earthly techniques. A warrior character that has no spellpower will be a comparatively strong physical fighter for this reason, with knowledge of extra techniques or other abilities pertaining to the field.
Spellpower - The opposite of physical power, spellpower represents the mastery of magical abilities like spells. Generally speaking, an ability or power that cannot by mimicked physically is considered a spell, such as a blast of telekinetic force or the manipulation of fire serpents.
Melee - Melee capability is representative of a character's ability to fight in close combat with or without weapons. A high melee value reflects intimate knowledge of close combat fighting techniques.
Ranged - The Ranged identifier represents a character's mastery of ranged weapons. A character with a high ranged value is accurate with all forms of ranged weaponry they are able to use, as this shows an intuitive understanding of the mechanics of ranged attacks.
Equipment - The equipment stat encompasses all tools and devices a character uses, from armor to communications, to even lighters or matches. The higher an equipment stat the more the character relies on technology to assist them with daily life.
Abilities - Like equipment, the Abilities section refers to utility powers. While other characters rely on equipment to fill in the gaps an Ability based character has spells or spell-like ability to mimic the effects of equipment, or better. Abilities are characterized by different rules than equipment, and their effects are a whole different brand as well.
=================
TOURNAMENT STANDARD AS OPINION OF KB...
STANDARD
------
MID STR is the ability to lift more, strike harder, and in general be stronger than the average person. A MID STR character in this case is about two times stronger than the real-world average, or, equivalent of a member of the armed forces.
MID AGI is the increased range of motion capable of a character compared to their average real-world counterpart. A MID AGI character in this case is as agile as a professional judo practictioner.
MID INT is the quick-thinking required of high-tier fighters. Someone at this level is smart enough to be recognized as brighter than their peers, which allows them an insightful edge. A MID INT character in this case would be capable of solving most basic problems, and learns fairly easily.
MID CON is the bodily endurance of fighters at this level, reflecting the hazards of professional fighting in addition to those of Gaia. A MID CON character in this case is about as hardy as an armed forces soldier, able to endure a variety of wounds and fight through the different elements.
MID PHYSICAL POWER at this level of play is around that of a soldier or above. The average character has either mastered a select style or knows a variety of tricks. In addition to that they have limited physical abilities that aren't possible in the real world or encountered, like a lightning fast draw and slash or 100 fists technique.
MID SPELLPOWER at this level of play is around that of an low-power spellcaster or elementalist. The ability to generate special attacks that exist only in the realm of imagination, as well as the mastery of elements or ki falls into this category. A character at this tier probably knows at least one or two spells, or has a resovoir of magical energy they can call upon in unique ways.
MELEE ability of a character in this tournament can generally be considered the capacity to fight in close quarters combat with the experience of a professional. Unlike PHYSICAL POWER, this reflects more of the mechanical ability of a character to score hits on their enemy, and ultimately represents their accuracy and skill with weapons of choice.
RANGED is the ranged equivalent of MELEE. A character with a normal RANGED ability at this level is going to be able to strike a human-sized target within the standard range of their weapon or weapons even under less than ideal circumstances. While a normal hunter or marksman may require to be completely still or the surroundings to be in their favor, characters at this tier are able to fight with ranged weapons accurately and more flexibly.
EQUIPMENT for characters at this level should be fairly similar to that of celebrated fighters in the real world. Characters should have access to civilian technologies for utility, as well as appropriate levels of body armor ranging from archaic to modern variants. At this level of play it would be appropriate for a character to have their own vehicle and all the things they need to maintain their daily life/occupation.
ABILITIES for characters at this level are similar to the levels of equipment. For characters at this tier of play it is acceptable to have non-offensive utility abilities limited in scope and power. These abilities should be in keeping with the nature and personality of the character, and be representative of their lives. A common ABILITY at this level might be limited telepathy ( talking only ) or effects that change their appearance in minor ways.
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:38 pm
I suggest you get rid of the suggestion thread.
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:08 pm
Viviana character info - Moved to OOC Topic Subforum.
-KB
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