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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:24 am
La Veuve Zin miyo_esparanza
They hand it out, no questions asked, where I live. confused Same with condoms, and generally the PlanB pill. I think that they make you fill out a form for the PlanB pill, just so that they can keep track of whether you've had, like, 3 over the course of the month or something. Pharmacists in the U.S. are required to counsel patients on every new prescription. Giving a woman a high dose of levonorgestrel without taking into consideration her medical history is incredibly irresponsible. I'd ask a patient if they had an allergy to latex before handing them a condom, too. You never know who's lawsuit-happy... Perhaps they don't check over here because people suing the NHS is relatively unheard of. It's generally considered "bad form" so to speak. If an individual doctor messes up then a patient may demand an inquest and possibly his dismissal but people don't seem to sue so to speak. It's only fairly recently to be honest that advertisements are on television letting people know that they can sue for certain things, the people from "lawyers for you" etc usually get a bad reception in the street though when they follow you round going "have you had a bad fall recently? you could sue" People usually tell them to p*ss off and stop encouraging compensation culture where everything has to be someone elses fault. Although that seems to be dependent on subjective culture.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:28 am
Quote: miyo_esparanza divineseraph That's really the pro-choice stance in a nutshell. "I do what I want, and am willing to kill something I legally can in order to get it"
This quote really hurts.In that case, perhaps it could be argued that such vehement refusal to understand Miyo's point could be representative of a "You will follow my morals and I don't care if your existing children and family have to suffer for it" view. My point? For every emotive point your view has, there is another to counter it. There is no point throwing out underhanded vicious comments like that in a serious and polite debate. There is no universal ultimate truth written down somewhere for us to go and check who is right, morals like this are entirely subjective so the fact that you believe it is truth does NOT make it true for everyone else. There are plenty of people arguing the pro-life side in this thread without resorting to unnecessary nastiness and arguments that amount to "because I said so". As I said before I disagree with your point because it assumes selfishness whilst conveniently forgetting that the main purpose of her view was concern for her own existing children, boiling this down to "what I want" when what she wants is benefit for others rather than herself is underhanded as it chooses to describe an act with specified reasons for others using the term I to imply selfishness. The logic there is not accurate and uses contrived logic based on a doubtful premise and it is on that basis that I challenge it.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:42 am
Anardana Quote: miyo_esparanza divineseraph That's really the pro-choice stance in a nutshell. "I do what I want, and am willing to kill something I legally can in order to get it"
This quote really hurts.In that case, perhaps it could be argued that such vehement refusal to understand Miyo's point could be representative of a "You will follow my morals and I don't care if your existing children and family have to suffer for it" view. My point? For every emotive point your view has, there is another to counter it. There is no point throwing out underhanded vicious comments like that in a serious and polite debate. There is no universal ultimate truth written down somewhere for us to go and check who is right, morals like this are entirely subjective so the fact that you believe it is truth does NOT make it true for everyone else. There are plenty of people arguing the pro-life side in this thread without resorting to unnecessary nastiness and arguments that amount to "because I said so". As I said before I disagree with your point because it assumes selfishness whilst conveniently forgetting that the main purpose of her view was concern for her own existing children, boiling this down to "what I want" when what she wants is benefit for others rather than herself is underhanded as it chooses to describe an act with specified reasons for others using the term I to imply selfishness. The logic there is not accurate and uses contrived logic based on a doubtful premise and it is on that basis that I challenge it. So make another and kill it. Right. Completely perfectly fine, since we all know how feti can simply poof into being without any warning or prior action.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:59 am
divineseraph Anardana Quote: miyo_esparanza divineseraph That's really the pro-choice stance in a nutshell. "I do what I want, and am willing to kill something I legally can in order to get it"
This quote really hurts.In that case, perhaps it could be argued that such vehement refusal to understand Miyo's point could be representative of a "You will follow my morals and I don't care if your existing children and family have to suffer for it" view. My point? For every emotive point your view has, there is another to counter it. There is no point throwing out underhanded vicious comments like that in a serious and polite debate. There is no universal ultimate truth written down somewhere for us to go and check who is right, morals like this are entirely subjective so the fact that you believe it is truth does NOT make it true for everyone else. There are plenty of people arguing the pro-life side in this thread without resorting to unnecessary nastiness and arguments that amount to "because I said so". As I said before I disagree with your point because it assumes selfishness whilst conveniently forgetting that the main purpose of her view was concern for her own existing children, boiling this down to "what I want" when what she wants is benefit for others rather than herself is underhanded as it chooses to describe an act with specified reasons for others using the term I to imply selfishness. The logic there is not accurate and uses contrived logic based on a doubtful premise and it is on that basis that I challenge it. So make another and kill it. Right. Completely perfectly fine, since we all know how feti can simply poof into being without any warning or prior action. I'm sorry perhaps I miss understand you but I don't see how what you said has much bearing on my post. Perhaps you could explain. You seem to be confused into thinking that I am somehow unaware that fetuses can come about through sex, but that would be a rather silly assumption to make hence I gather that I have misunderstood you. Thankyou.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:09 am
Anardana In that case, perhaps it could be argued that such vehement refusal to understand Miyo's point could be representative of a "You will follow my morals and I don't care if your existing children and family have to suffer for it" view. My point? For every emotive point your view has, there is another to counter it. There is no point throwing out underhanded vicious comments like that in a serious and polite debate. There is no universal ultimate truth written down somewhere for us to go and check who is right, morals like this are entirely subjective so the fact that you believe it is truth does NOT make it true for everyone else. There are plenty of people arguing the pro-life side in this thread without resorting to unnecessary nastiness and arguments that amount to "because I said so". As I said before I disagree with your point because it assumes selfishness whilst conveniently forgetting that the main purpose of her view was concern for her own existing children, boiling this down to "what I want" when what she wants is benefit for others rather than herself is underhanded as it chooses to describe an act with specified reasons for others using the term I to imply selfishness. The logic there is not accurate and uses contrived logic based on a doubtful premise and it is on that basis that I challenge it.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:43 am
Quote: miyo_esparanza divineseraph That's really the pro-choice stance in a nutshell. "I do what I want, and am willing to kill something I legally can in order to get it"
This quote really hurts.Oh yes, just like pro-life in a nutshell is subjugating women on a whim, right? Please don't try to bait people in here. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your purpose, but I really can't see what else that's supposed to accomplish other than riling people up.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:18 pm
Speaking as a Mod:
"I think that people need to be reminded that we do have a "Be Civil" rule, and people need to be reminded of that. If it isn't something you would say to a teacher in class, try to refrain from saying it in here."
Thank you. Have a good night.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am
Waters is right. 3nodding
Now, should we make another thread about birth control/contraceptives and how they're handed out? Or has that topic already bit it?
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:11 pm
Anardana divineseraph Anardana Quote: miyo_esparanza divineseraph That's really the pro-choice stance in a nutshell. "I do what I want, and am willing to kill something I legally can in order to get it"
This quote really hurts.In that case, perhaps it could be argued that such vehement refusal to understand Miyo's point could be representative of a "You will follow my morals and I don't care if your existing children and family have to suffer for it" view. My point? For every emotive point your view has, there is another to counter it. There is no point throwing out underhanded vicious comments like that in a serious and polite debate. There is no universal ultimate truth written down somewhere for us to go and check who is right, morals like this are entirely subjective so the fact that you believe it is truth does NOT make it true for everyone else. There are plenty of people arguing the pro-life side in this thread without resorting to unnecessary nastiness and arguments that amount to "because I said so". As I said before I disagree with your point because it assumes selfishness whilst conveniently forgetting that the main purpose of her view was concern for her own existing children, boiling this down to "what I want" when what she wants is benefit for others rather than herself is underhanded as it chooses to describe an act with specified reasons for others using the term I to imply selfishness. The logic there is not accurate and uses contrived logic based on a doubtful premise and it is on that basis that I challenge it. So make another and kill it. Right. Completely perfectly fine, since we all know how feti can simply poof into being without any warning or prior action. I'm sorry perhaps I miss understand you but I don't see how what you said has much bearing on my post. Perhaps you could explain. You seem to be confused into thinking that I am somehow unaware that fetuses can come about through sex, but that would be a rather silly assumption to make hence I gather that I have misunderstood you. Thankyou. Point being, it's not selfless to create a problem and then solve it. in my oppinion, especially when the solution involes the death of another being.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:29 pm
miyo_esparanza Waters is right. 3nodding
Now, should we make another thread about birth control/contraceptives and how they're handed out? Or has that topic already bit it? We mustn't keep running from threads that have gotten a little mucky. This one will do. Lest... we reach THE END!
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:44 pm
kp is dcvi miyo_esparanza Waters is right. 3nodding
Now, should we make another thread about birth control/contraceptives and how they're handed out? Or has that topic already bit it? We mustn't keep running from threads that have gotten a little mucky. This one will do. Lest... we reach THE END!
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:48 pm
divineseraph Point being, it's not selfless to create a problem and then solve it. in my oppinion, especially when the solution involes the death of another being.
You appear to be implying that women are completely responsible for getting pregnant. Is this correct?
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:32 pm
I have this to say.
If women are completely responsible for getting pregnant, then they would be completely responsible for taking care of it themselves. Men need to step up to the plate too, so the women doesn't feel alone, to be "responsible" all by herself, and make her want to abort. For me, that's not the right attitude to have.
That said, women are responsible on the level that they have to protect themselves, and take precautions, but so do men.
Overall, it seems to me responsiblity, here, seems to be based on need. For choicers, it is more responsible to not have a child (as they are able to reconcile in their minds that they're ending a human life), than have it born into a world where they won't have a good enough life. And for lifers, it's more responsible to have the child because it's the side of the situation where everyone gets to be able to experience life. We see the taking of life as an irresponsible thing.
Essentially, we won't be able to agree on a definition of where the responsibility lies because we have different priorities. That's my point.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:50 pm
miyo_esparanza divineseraph Point being, it's not selfless to create a problem and then solve it. in my oppinion, especially when the solution involes the death of another being.
You appear to be implying that women are completely responsible for getting pregnant. Is this correct?No, both partners are completely responsible for getting the female pregnant. But it is still a human error and is still avoidable. If one cannot afford to have a baby, I'm not sure they should be able to afford to make one. (Using figurative speech, not literally equating a fetus to a baby)
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:38 am
miyo_esparanza divineseraph Point being, it's not selfless to create a problem and then solve it. in my oppinion, especially when the solution involes the death of another being.
You appear to be implying that women are completely responsible for getting pregnant. Is this correct?Both the man and the woman are responsible. After all, it takes two to tango and both should know the risks and possiblity of pregnancy (even when using proctection and birth control). Wouldn't it only be fair to let the man have a say too? It's his child as well (the woman didn't get pregnant on her own).
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