I'm Giving Up On God

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

Sadism isn't really opinion. That's how such tendancies would be diagnosed by a psychoanalysist. There are probably many other negative disorders involved with your idea of God.

No, the point was to debate them, logically. Does it make sense? If not, how the ******** can you accept it as truth? It doesn't follow a downs-syndrome idiot child's logic, let alone absolute supreme divine wisdom. God uses divine logic, as shown in chemical composition, gravitation, light, mass and energy and so forth. Therefore, I submit that it can not be truth.

We know they can fail, but we don't force them to fail or expect them to fail or set them up with the task of failing, and we don't know when or if they will fail. Your examples are bad because they are only half of the criteria that we're talking about, and are therefore not suitable examples. That's a logical fallacy of false analogy.

Here's one for you- How does it make sense knowing that you have, essentially, a 50/50 chance of buring in hell? Keep in mind, God decided this a long time ago, right? So, at your death bed, God may find it prudent to have you renounce your faith in Jesus or whatever it is you think you need, eat a bucket of babies, whatever. Are you cool with that? What kind of justice is that, let alone freedom?

But it was a false analogy- The question had little to do with the reality. It was like if I offered you 1,000 dollars to kill a man, and when you said no, said "Well, would you take 20 dollars if I offered it to you? so what's the problem?"- It's only half of the problem, and the focus was the other half.

Whether computers were set up to work or not, we know for a fact that nothing in this entire life is EVER perfect no matter how we strive to make it that way. anything made by man will eventually fall apart. so whether we know it will fail, versus making it TO fail, still poses the same question of why get mad if we know the end result? If you still think my examples have no legitimacy to them then whatever. Think however you wish.

Quote:

How does it make sense knowing that you have, essentially, a 50/50 chance of buring in hell?

um....I never said there was a chance. All along I have stated the belief that God chooses who he gives salvation, but its not a choice of us to try to take it away because we don't have that power to, neither do we have the power to take it. Its preconditioned into us.

The best question to ask me, which is probably what you just asked here, is do I find justice in people being sent to hell to burn in an eternity of fire because their nature of being was pre-ordained? My answer to that is?

No. I don't find it fair at all. I mean if their punishment was to go only for a specific amount of time, like we do with criminals in jail, then I'd be a bit more fine with it. But for eternity? How is eternity even defined since time does not exist to God, only to us because we rely on it? But as much as I don't like accepting the situation for what it is, at the same time I do because of all the scriptures I've read and the "hints" of logic I can come up with to explain what it is the way God made it. But the fact of the matter is, as bad as it looks, I'm not God, I don't have his understanding, and there's only so much I can comprehend till the day I die. Once I'm in heaven then all will finally be explained. But until then, this is what I believe and how I see it and that perspective will never change.

It if helps? I'm a fatalist. I believe everything happens for a reason and I take things as they come no matter how gruesome. I've never once blamed God for any of my troubles in life because I understand how suffering works and it would be stupid to blame him anyway. But whatever.  

[divineseraph]

SaintChaos

divineseraph

Sadism isn't really opinion. That's how such tendancies would be diagnosed by a psychoanalysist. There are probably many other negative disorders involved with your idea of God.

No, the point was to debate them, logically. Does it make sense? If not, how the ******** can you accept it as truth? It doesn't follow a downs-syndrome idiot child's logic, let alone absolute supreme divine wisdom. God uses divine logic, as shown in chemical composition, gravitation, light, mass and energy and so forth. Therefore, I submit that it can not be truth.

We know they can fail, but we don't force them to fail or expect them to fail or set them up with the task of failing, and we don't know when or if they will fail. Your examples are bad because they are only half of the criteria that we're talking about, and are therefore not suitable examples. That's a logical fallacy of false analogy.

Here's one for you- How does it make sense knowing that you have, essentially, a 50/50 chance of buring in hell? Keep in mind, God decided this a long time ago, right? So, at your death bed, God may find it prudent to have you renounce your faith in Jesus or whatever it is you think you need, eat a bucket of babies, whatever. Are you cool with that? What kind of justice is that, let alone freedom?

But it was a false analogy- The question had little to do with the reality. It was like if I offered you 1,000 dollars to kill a man, and when you said no, said "Well, would you take 20 dollars if I offered it to you? so what's the problem?"- It's only half of the problem, and the focus was the other half.

Whether computers were set up to work or not, we know for a fact that nothing in this entire life is EVER perfect no matter how we strive to make it that way. anything made by man will eventually fall apart. so whether we know it will fail, versus making it TO fail, still poses the same question of why get mad if we know the end result? If you still think my examples have no legitimacy to them then whatever. Think however you wish.

Quote:

How does it make sense knowing that you have, essentially, a 50/50 chance of buring in hell?

um....I never said there was a chance. All along I have stated the belief that God chooses who he gives salvation, but its not a choice of us to try to take it away because we don't have that power to, neither do we have the power to take it. Its preconditioned into us.

The best question to ask me, which is probably what you just asked here, is do I find justice in people being sent to hell to burn in an eternity of fire because their nature of being was pre-ordained? My answer to that is?

No. I don't find it fair at all. I mean if their punishment was to go only for a specific amount of time, like we do with criminals in jail, then I'd be a bit more fine with it. But for eternity? How is eternity even defined since time does not exist to God, only to us because we rely on it? But as much as I don't like accepting the situation for what it is, at the same time I do because of all the scriptures I've read and the "hints" of logic I can come up with to explain what it is the way God made it. But the fact of the matter is, as bad as it looks, I'm not God, I don't have his understanding, and there's only so much I can comprehend till the day I die. Once I'm in heaven then all will finally be explained. But until then, this is what I believe and how I see it and that perspective will never change.

It if helps? I'm a fatalist. I believe everything happens for a reason and I take things as they come no matter how gruesome. I've never once blamed God for any of my troubles in life because I understand how suffering works and it would be stupid to blame him anyway. But whatever.

Again, your analogy is off- Better, but off. First major difference is that we are humans, not machines. Machines do not think or act on their own. We do, because of, again, Cogito Ergo Sum and Searle's chinese room metaphor, which means that symbol-processing units alone do not make a mind. The second major difference is that God is supposed to be perfect- Why would God make a system that is designed to be mucked up? He would have to go out of his way to make us imperfect. We, being imperfect, can fail. That brings up another idea, that we also get angry at our failure BECAUSE we are imperfect. getting in a hissy fit when something goes as it must is something not suited for God.

The third major difference is that we do not make computers knowing WHEN or IF they will fail and in what ways- We would need to do that in order to fulfill the "omnipotence" factor of God.

I am trying to teach you, beyond your petty dogma which even you admit, sounds like a load.

Which, again, thanks to the uncertainty principle, means that you, regardless of what you think now, may just be predestined to ******** it up, and there's nothing you can do about it. Until it happens, we should assume a 50/50 because it is a human choice or divine will, and not an act of nature.

God is Justice and Mercy, along with 8 other factors. Why would god make such a flawed system? The simple answer is that he wouldn't. The long answer is no, he wouldn't. Don't use scripture, use your soul. That's closer to God than any book or building. Transcendent.  

[ElenaMason]

Firstly, once again your over analyzing the example. Obviously machines can not think the way humans do. But the concept can still apply to the situation.

Quote:

I am trying to teach you, beyond your petty dogma which even you admit, sounds like a load.

There is nothing to teach here. I entirely get what you're saying, I just happen to not agree with it. My belief is not a petty dogma. I would appreciate if you respected my beliefs a bit better then degrading them by some childish label that doesn't even apply. I never once said that YOUR beliefs were bullshit in any way, I would expect the same respect in return.

Secondly? I mentioned ONE fraction of an aspect of the Christan belief that I happen to find quirky. I never said that I find ALL of my christian beliefs quirky.

Quote:

Which, again, thanks to the uncertainty principle, means that you, regardless of what you think now, may just be predestined to ******** it up, and there's nothing you can do about it. Until it happens, we should assume a 50/50 because it is a human choice or divine will, and not an act of nature.

God is Justice and Mercy, along with 8 other factors. Why would god make such a flawed system? The simple answer is that he wouldn't. The long answer is no, he wouldn't. Don't use scripture, use your soul. That's closer to God than any book or building. Transcendent.

Of course its regardless of what I think. I already stated my beliefs on predestination and that I'm a fatalist. I accept life regardless of how screwed up it can be and how flawed we are.

There is ONE subject matter in the bible that I never talk to people about because it is so rarely even mentioned and we are given so little knowledge of it that there's no way to put a pure basis on how everything works the way God made it. Under correct translation of the very first sentence of Genesis ch.1 it states "In a beginning...." "A" being the key word here. Earth is not the very first thing that God has ever created. God has existed before hand. He is the alpha and omega "beginning and end". Knowing that, the subject matter I'm referring to is the origin of "sin" What IS sin? Where did it come from? How did it get here? The bible explains how mankind on EARTH got it through that passage of Adam and Eve who gained it by the temptation of the devil and they disobeyed God.

But God has no sin IN him. If he "created" sin that would contradict his nature and thus if God was capable of sin then he would also be capable of lieing and deception, thus we would question our trust in him. They say God can't do anything, but the thing is, there are some things that he IS incapable of doing otherwise as stated, it contradicts his nature. He didn't "create" us to be sinful and flawed. Adam and Eve were created as perfect beings, but then Satan tempted them and they fell under the curse of sin. Satan is the envelopment of sin and the father of lies. Yes, God knew it would happen, but he didn't create us to be sinful. He pre-ordained our spiritual salvation, but he didn't pre-ordain our sinful nature. So for him to get mad when we sin 24/hr is understandable to me.

But again......there is close to zilch information on the origin of sin in the bible. Maybe its something that can't be explained to us right now, hence not much mentioning of it. The same thing is with demons and demon possession. There are quite a few accounts of demon possession in the bible and there are warnings in the bible about seeking out mediums to be defiled or "if you seek evil it will find you", but God gave us limited information on the subject matter for who knows whatever reason.

So with that said, and as I've stated before, we can debate your little semantics all we want. There is nothing that you will say that will sway me either way. If you want to debate just to debate that's fine. But your "perspective" is the same perspective with other people that I've debated with on the same subject matter. I've done it since I was in high school, so no offense when I say this, but I doubt there's anything you can say that I haven't heard before. I actually used to be part of an atheist guild because I wanted to talk about their viewpoints on everything and I found it fascinating to learn about since I rarely get to talk to atheists as it is. (that's just an example though)  

[divineseraph]

SaintChaos

Firstly, once again your over analyzing the example. Obviously machines can not think the way humans do. But the concept can still apply to the situation.

Quote:

I am trying to teach you, beyond your petty dogma which even you admit, sounds like a load.

There is nothing to teach here. I entirely get what you're saying, I just happen to not agree with it. My belief is not a petty dogma. I would appreciate if you respected my beliefs a bit better then degrading them by some childish label that doesn't even apply. I never once said that YOUR beliefs were bullshit in any way, I would expect the same respect in return.

Secondly? I mentioned ONE fraction of an aspect of the Christan belief that I happen to find quirky. I never said that I find ALL of my christian beliefs quirky.

Quote:

Which, again, thanks to the uncertainty principle, means that you, regardless of what you think now, may just be predestined to ******** it up, and there's nothing you can do about it. Until it happens, we should assume a 50/50 because it is a human choice or divine will, and not an act of nature.

God is Justice and Mercy, along with 8 other factors. Why would god make such a flawed system? The simple answer is that he wouldn't. The long answer is no, he wouldn't. Don't use scripture, use your soul. That's closer to God than any book or building. Transcendent.

Of course its regardless of what I think. I already stated my beliefs on predestination and that I'm a fatalist. I accept life regardless of how screwed up it can be and how flawed we are.

There is ONE subject matter in the bible that I never talk to people about because it is so rarely even mentioned and we are given so little knowledge of it that there's no way to put a pure basis on how everything works the way God made it. Under correct translation of the very first sentence of Genesis ch.1 it states "In a beginning...." "A" being the key word here. Earth is not the very first thing that God has ever created. God has existed before hand. He is the alpha and omega "beginning and end". Knowing that, the subject matter I'm referring to is the origin of "sin" What IS sin? Where did it come from? How did it get here? The bible explains how mankind on EARTH got it through that passage of Adam and Eve who gained it by the temptation of the devil and they disobeyed God.

But God has no sin IN him. If he "created" sin that would contradict his nature and thus if God was capable of sin then he would also be capable of lieing and deception, thus we would question our trust in him. They say God can't do anything, but the thing is, there are some things that he IS incapable of doing otherwise as stated, it contradicts his nature. He didn't "create" us to be sinful and flawed. Adam and Eve were created as perfect beings, but then Satan tempted them and they fell under the curse of sin. Satan is the envelopment of sin and the father of lies. Yes, God knew it would happen, but he didn't create us to be sinful. He pre-ordained our spiritual salvation, but he didn't pre-ordain our sinful nature. So for him to get mad when we sin 24/hr is understandable to me.

But again......there is close to zilch information on the origin of sin in the bible. Maybe its something that can't be explained to us right now, hence not much mentioning of it. The same thing is with demons and demon possession. There are quite a few accounts of demon possession in the bible and there are warnings in the bible about seeking out mediums to be defiled or "if you seek evil it will find you", but God gave us limited information on the subject matter for who knows whatever reason.

So with that said, and as I've stated before, we can debate your little semantics all we want. There is nothing that you will say that will sway me either way. If you want to debate just to debate that's fine. But your "perspective" is the same perspective with other people that I've debated with on the same subject matter. I've done it since I was in high school, so no offense when I say this, but I doubt there's anything you can say that I haven't heard before. I actually used to be part of an atheist guild because I wanted to talk about their viewpoints on everything and I found it fascinating to learn about since I rarely get to talk to atheists as it is. (that's just an example though)

Again, the example is flawed for the reaon I stated. You're not using logic very well. You miss the key points of the problem.

Your citing, however, relies entirely on scripture and not at all on logic or reason. Which implies poor critical thinking. I wasn't attacking ALL of your beliefs, only the bad ones. Which is mostly determinism.

Accepting a reality doesn't mean that you suddenly understand the nature of God, or that your interpretation of reality is fact. I'm honestly not sure what you're saying. The logic seems to go like this- "I take things as they come, therefore determinism is true"- That's not logically valid. It's like you're basing your idea of God's determinism on itself, which is circular.

So, you're basing your assumption of determinism on the idea that God may have done this before? That doesn't really make sense. Let alone fit logically.

The alchemists answered you question ages ago, and the gnostics played with it too. God is perfect. We are not. The difference between us is matter- When the perfect, subtle God or Soul or soulstuff separates from God and condenses, it corrupts. It becomes imperfect. This ties in with the big bang, where plasma cooled into matter and Kabbalah where God spread down the tree of life to Malkuht and in basic physics where things tend to get more chaotic over time.

And he created Satan, too, right? So what made Satan evil? It was either FREE WILL or GOD'S PLAN, which, a-freaking-gain, brings us to the same problem. Namely, either God can't ******** with free will, or God is incompetent and mentally disabled.

The problem I seem to be facing is that you ignore logic. Which is bad. Please don't do that.  

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

SaintChaos

Firstly, once again your over analyzing the example. Obviously machines can not think the way humans do. But the concept can still apply to the situation.

Quote:

I am trying to teach you, beyond your petty dogma which even you admit, sounds like a load.

There is nothing to teach here. I entirely get what you're saying, I just happen to not agree with it. My belief is not a petty dogma. I would appreciate if you respected my beliefs a bit better then degrading them by some childish label that doesn't even apply. I never once said that YOUR beliefs were bullshit in any way, I would expect the same respect in return.

Secondly? I mentioned ONE fraction of an aspect of the Christan belief that I happen to find quirky. I never said that I find ALL of my christian beliefs quirky.

Quote:

Which, again, thanks to the uncertainty principle, means that you, regardless of what you think now, may just be predestined to ******** it up, and there's nothing you can do about it. Until it happens, we should assume a 50/50 because it is a human choice or divine will, and not an act of nature.

God is Justice and Mercy, along with 8 other factors. Why would god make such a flawed system? The simple answer is that he wouldn't. The long answer is no, he wouldn't. Don't use scripture, use your soul. That's closer to God than any book or building. Transcendent.

Of course its regardless of what I think. I already stated my beliefs on predestination and that I'm a fatalist. I accept life regardless of how screwed up it can be and how flawed we are.

There is ONE subject matter in the bible that I never talk to people about because it is so rarely even mentioned and we are given so little knowledge of it that there's no way to put a pure basis on how everything works the way God made it. Under correct translation of the very first sentence of Genesis ch.1 it states "In a beginning...." "A" being the key word here. Earth is not the very first thing that God has ever created. God has existed before hand. He is the alpha and omega "beginning and end". Knowing that, the subject matter I'm referring to is the origin of "sin" What IS sin? Where did it come from? How did it get here? The bible explains how mankind on EARTH got it through that passage of Adam and Eve who gained it by the temptation of the devil and they disobeyed God.

But God has no sin IN him. If he "created" sin that would contradict his nature and thus if God was capable of sin then he would also be capable of lieing and deception, thus we would question our trust in him. They say God can't do anything, but the thing is, there are some things that he IS incapable of doing otherwise as stated, it contradicts his nature. He didn't "create" us to be sinful and flawed. Adam and Eve were created as perfect beings, but then Satan tempted them and they fell under the curse of sin. Satan is the envelopment of sin and the father of lies. Yes, God knew it would happen, but he didn't create us to be sinful. He pre-ordained our spiritual salvation, but he didn't pre-ordain our sinful nature. So for him to get mad when we sin 24/hr is understandable to me.

But again......there is close to zilch information on the origin of sin in the bible. Maybe its something that can't be explained to us right now, hence not much mentioning of it. The same thing is with demons and demon possession. There are quite a few accounts of demon possession in the bible and there are warnings in the bible about seeking out mediums to be defiled or "if you seek evil it will find you", but God gave us limited information on the subject matter for who knows whatever reason.

So with that said, and as I've stated before, we can debate your little semantics all we want. There is nothing that you will say that will sway me either way. If you want to debate just to debate that's fine. But your "perspective" is the same perspective with other people that I've debated with on the same subject matter. I've done it since I was in high school, so no offense when I say this, but I doubt there's anything you can say that I haven't heard before. I actually used to be part of an atheist guild because I wanted to talk about their viewpoints on everything and I found it fascinating to learn about since I rarely get to talk to atheists as it is. (that's just an example though)

Again, the example is flawed for the reaon I stated. You're not using logic very well. You miss the key points of the problem.

Your citing, however, relies entirely on scripture and not at all on logic or reason. Which implies poor critical thinking. I wasn't attacking ALL of your beliefs, only the bad ones. Which is mostly determinism.

Accepting a reality doesn't mean that you suddenly understand the nature of God, or that your interpretation of reality is fact. I'm honestly not sure what you're saying. The logic seems to go like this- "I take things as they come, therefore determinism is true"- That's not logically valid. It's like you're basing your idea of God's determinism on itself, which is circular.

So, you're basing your assumption of determinism on the idea that God may have done this before? That doesn't really make sense. Let alone fit logically.

The alchemists answered you question ages ago, and the gnostics played with it too. God is perfect. We are not. The difference between us is matter- When the perfect, subtle God or Soul or soulstuff separates from God and condenses, it corrupts. It becomes imperfect. This ties in with the big bang, where plasma cooled into matter and Kabbalah where God spread down the tree of life to Malkuht and in basic physics where things tend to get more chaotic over time.

And he created Satan, too, right? So what made Satan evil? It was either FREE WILL or GOD'S PLAN, which, a-freaking-gain, brings us to the same problem. Namely, either God can't ******** with free will, or God is incompetent and mentally disabled.

The problem I seem to be facing is that you ignore logic. Which is bad. Please don't do that.

Logic is also a perspective and sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree because the logic I use seems pretty understandable to me, but obviously not to you. From your words seems like you're assuming that I can't reason beyond my religious beliefs and thus I'm an idiot. Which is completely wrong because I DO believe in science and technology. I may not agree with 100% of it, but that doesn't mean its all religious based.

We both are equally using a different set of logic and we just happen to not agree with each other. pure and simple. I see nothing wrong with the logic I use. And you see nothing wrong with the logic YOU use. You can sit and banter at me all you want about how your personal feelings of the logic I use isn't acceptable to you, but its not going to change a thing and therefore?

I'm done with this matter. I don't see the point in continuing because its not going anywhere, neither am I in the mood to do so anymore. But it was a good debate nonetheless.  

[divineseraph]

...Which is why I pointed out the flaws in your logic using the set and standard logical fallacies. I hate to break it to you, but logic is NOT subjective. Reasoning is, but reasoning is not the same as logic. I am discussing logic, and for that very reason.

Have you ever taken a course in logic? If not, I would suggest it. If so, I would suggest re-taking it.  

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

...Which is why I pointed out the flaws in your logic using the set and standard logical fallacies. I hate to break it to you, but logic is NOT subjective. Reasoning is, but reasoning is not the same as logic. I am discussing logic, and for that very reason.

Have you ever taken a course in logic? If not, I would suggest it. If so, I would suggest re-taking it.

Just because you "believe" my logic is false, doesn't mean it is. You just don't agree with it and thus you deem it as false. But whatever.  

[divineseraph]

SaintChaos

divineseraph

...Which is why I pointed out the flaws in your logic using the set and standard logical fallacies. I hate to break it to you, but logic is NOT subjective. Reasoning is, but reasoning is not the same as logic. I am discussing logic, and for that very reason.

Have you ever taken a course in logic? If not, I would suggest it. If so, I would suggest re-taking it.

Just because you "believe" my logic is false, doesn't mean it is. You just don't agree with it and thus you deem it as false. But whatever.

No. Logic isn't about belief. That's why computers use logic, not reasoning- It's objective and standard. And I am telling you, as an objective fact, that your logic is flawed.

Please, take a logic class.  

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

SaintChaos

divineseraph

...Which is why I pointed out the flaws in your logic using the set and standard logical fallacies. I hate to break it to you, but logic is NOT subjective. Reasoning is, but reasoning is not the same as logic. I am discussing logic, and for that very reason.

Have you ever taken a course in logic? If not, I would suggest it. If so, I would suggest re-taking it.

Just because you "believe" my logic is false, doesn't mean it is. You just don't agree with it and thus you deem it as false. But whatever.

No. Logic isn't about belief. That's why computers use logic, not reasoning- It's objective and standard. And I am telling you, as an objective fact, that your logic is flawed.

Please, take a logic class.

correct, logic is not about belief. but we both feel that we are both right in the logic we use and consider either one to be wrong. so it comes to a stale mate.

you think my logic is wrong. but i find my logic just fine and that you just simply dont understand what im trying to say or you just dont want to accept what i have to say because you have your own belief.

but what i find halarious is that you never seem to admit to even the possibility that YOU just might be wrong. rolleyes  

[divineseraph]

...There's no belief about it, though. You admitted as much. It's not an issue of perspective, with logic.

Logically, your argument doesn't work. For anyone. It's not valid logic.  

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

...There's no belief about it, though. You admitted as much. It's not an issue of perspective, with logic.

Logically, your argument doesn't work. For anyone. It's not valid logic.

Let me get this straight. You "believe" that my logic isn't logical and thus it won't make sense for anyone.

Or in other words you are solely deciding for the minds of EVERYONE that my logic won't make sense because it doesn't' make sense to you?

You are just one person who just happens to not agree. That doesn't prove that my logic is illogical. No one else has jumped in and even if one other person jumped in, it would need at least 2-3 more people with different opinions to solely decide of my logic is indeed "illogical".

Thus its either your word or my word. We find either one of us to be wrong. Thus?

stalemate  

[divineseraph]

SaintChaos

divineseraph

...There's no belief about it, though. You admitted as much. It's not an issue of perspective, with logic.

Logically, your argument doesn't work. For anyone. It's not valid logic.

Let me get this straight. You "believe" that my logic isn't logical and thus it won't make sense for anyone.

Or in other words you are solely deciding for the minds of EVERYONE that my logic won't make sense because it doesn't' make sense to you?

You are just one person who just happens to not agree. That doesn't prove that my logic is illogical. No one else has jumped in and even if one other person jumped in, it would need at least 2-3 more people with different opinions to solely decide of my logic is indeed "illogical".

Thus its either your word or my word. We find either one of us to be wrong. Thus?

stalemate

*facepalm* no. Wrong. Bad. Take a logic class. Please. Seriously. Then you will understand why exactly you are wrong.

Logic is- Again- OBJECTIVE. It is NOT about belief. You use false analogy and strawman. And the process God goes through in your argument is circular reasoning and most likely a logical fallacy of begging the question, which by my reasoning is not something God would do.

These are all objective logical fallacies that invalidate your argument- It's not about my word against yours, it's about my logic against yours- And yours is lacking in the areas I showed. Again, not from belief, but from objective logical process.  

[ElenaMason]

divineseraph

SaintChaos

divineseraph

...There's no belief about it, though. You admitted as much. It's not an issue of perspective, with logic.

Logically, your argument doesn't work. For anyone. It's not valid logic.

Let me get this straight. You "believe" that my logic isn't logical and thus it won't make sense for anyone.

Or in other words you are solely deciding for the minds of EVERYONE that my logic won't make sense because it doesn't' make sense to you?

You are just one person who just happens to not agree. That doesn't prove that my logic is illogical. No one else has jumped in and even if one other person jumped in, it would need at least 2-3 more people with different opinions to solely decide of my logic is indeed "illogical".

Thus its either your word or my word. We find either one of us to be wrong. Thus?

stalemate

*facepalm* no. Wrong. Bad. Take a logic class. Please. Seriously. Then you will understand why exactly you are wrong.

Logic is- Again- OBJECTIVE. It is NOT about belief. You use false analogy and strawman. And the process God goes through in your argument is circular reasoning and most likely a logical fallacy of begging the question, which by my reasoning is not something God would do.

These are all objective logical fallacies that invalidate your argument- It's not about my word against yours, it's about my logic against yours- And yours is lacking in the areas I showed. Again, not from belief, but from objective logical process.

"believe" or "think" i used both words as the same meaning. my only point as i have already stated is that you're the only person that has stated against the logic ive tried to show. i've shown everything i typed to other people and they said that what i stated made total sense to them. that tells me a lot more than one just person stating one thing. stop being so redundant by telling me to take a logics class. spare me the so called "advice".  

[divineseraph]

SaintChaos

divineseraph

SaintChaos

divineseraph

...There's no belief about it, though. You admitted as much. It's not an issue of perspective, with logic.

Logically, your argument doesn't work. For anyone. It's not valid logic.

Let me get this straight. You "believe" that my logic isn't logical and thus it won't make sense for anyone.

Or in other words you are solely deciding for the minds of EVERYONE that my logic won't make sense because it doesn't' make sense to you?

You are just one person who just happens to not agree. That doesn't prove that my logic is illogical. No one else has jumped in and even if one other person jumped in, it would need at least 2-3 more people with different opinions to solely decide of my logic is indeed "illogical".

Thus its either your word or my word. We find either one of us to be wrong. Thus?

stalemate

*facepalm* no. Wrong. Bad. Take a logic class. Please. Seriously. Then you will understand why exactly you are wrong.

Logic is- Again- OBJECTIVE. It is NOT about belief. You use false analogy and strawman. And the process God goes through in your argument is circular reasoning and most likely a logical fallacy of begging the question, which by my reasoning is not something God would do.

These are all objective logical fallacies that invalidate your argument- It's not about my word against yours, it's about my logic against yours- And yours is lacking in the areas I showed. Again, not from belief, but from objective logical process.

"believe" or "think" i used both words as the same meaning. my only point as i have already stated is that you're the only person that has stated against the logic ive tried to show. i've shown everything i typed to other people and they said that what i stated made total sense to them. that tells me a lot more than one just person stating one thing. stop being so redundant by telling me to take a logics class. spare me the so called "advice".

That's a logical fallacy of appeal to the people. "Other people agree so it must be true"- That is invalid. If you're not going to take a class in logic, at least look up common logical fallacies.

I am telling you, again and again and again, that your logic is bad. Please, at the very least, look it up and defend yourself with logic, rather than falling back on the idea that logic is subjective.