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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:08 pm
Hinote Tosatsu Going back and actually looking at the talent (This is something we all should do before arguing over things.), the speed bonus from the talent does not apply to actual speed, and thus would not directly affect the augmentation either. The talent only allows those bonuses when attacking. That doesn't mean that so long as it's part of an attack the person can run faster, but that their punches, or kicks, or whatever else, are faster. So, removing the talent (And it's doubled effect.), Shinji is capable of running at AC rank speed, entirely due to the Konaga augmentation, which I believe also only lasts for one post. Otherwise his base speed is B. And if you think that is OP, so is Yamatano, and anyone else with the Speed type. Agreed. I'm not sure how the whole AC / AA thing rolls, so I agree with Hinote's assessment of my talent... (which I had misconstrued).
However, I'm still moving and attacking faster then Jishaku, so my previous points still hold true.
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:43 pm
Cobra_X Agreed. I'm not sure how the whole AC / AA thing rolls, Essentially, as I understand it, Chakra Speed enhances your base speed, including all passive base bonuses (And possibly technique ones? I don't know about that.). Given that the talent is a situational bonus, the speed enhancement wouldn't apply to it. You might be able to argue it if you were using some sort of charge/ramming attack, but otherwise it wouldn't apply. Especially in instances such as now, where the augmentation is on the legs, and you're attacking with your hands. Movement speed isn't calculated into this particular attack, so it wouldn't apply.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:57 pm
I'd like to say that Shinji would be moving at AC speeds. Although, I'd like to have the Advanced Augmentation looked at, and at most revised to +3 ranks, otherwise if Shinji makes it to S rank which is almost certain to happen he'll be moving at SSE rank, which as Hinote has expressed before, he does not wish to be possible. Or at least cap it at doubling speed up to A rank, which in essence would make you go S rank speed as a Jonin. A little trade for that big of a hole in the bloodline in my eyes. Shinji would be moving so fast, his punches would be the equivalent of a cannonball hitting you. I'm going to give a rough estimate that he'd be moving at around 150 mph, or more. ( How did something that at S rank allows you to be untouchable by any means even get passed? )
Also, in a completely unrelated note, except that it concerns the Konaga bloodline:
You'll need to rework some of the weaknesses if your chakra system is passed. If it is, then it nullifies some of your bloodline's weaknesses, and thus makes it imbalanced as far as the approval system goes.
Please don't be mad, I'm just shifting the subject subtly so that (unofficial) mommy, daddy, and grandpa stop fighting...
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:18 pm
Just to satisfy everyone, I ask that Cobra post all of the Konaga augmentations in a new thread in the customs forum for review. I will look over them as soon as I have the time, and clear up any other issues before they arise.
And when I say that I will check them, I mean that I will check them. I don't know what it is with second guessing me on everything lately, but I've been in charge of jutsu almost since I was added to crew for a reason. I do know what I'm doing.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:26 pm
I'm not second guessing you, I'm just saying that at S rank, which Shinji will undoubtedly make it to unless Cobra just randomly quits, or puts Shinji in a stupid situation, or if his roll just totally blows in a fight, he'll be capable of something that should never be possible. He'd surpass any and every Bijuu combined in terms of speed. It doesn't seem like much, but there is no way to dodge a point blank cannonball to the face, which at S rank is exactly what a punch from Shinji would be. It would shatter your skull, and possibly his hand if he doesn't have a gauntlet of sorts, and possibly even obliterate your head. ( Pop it like a zit if you would. )
Again, I'm not Second guessing you. >.< I'm just pointing out something I found that doesn't seem to fit right within what I've been told.
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:48 pm
I wasn't referring to you Timmy, sorry if the timing implied that. I actually wasn't referring to your post at all.
Though I have to mention, any S ranked character's punch would be like a cannonball to the face. Especially a Jiton taijutsu specialist, since it probably would be a cannonball.
And the Raijuu host would actually be faster than him. Just a bit, but definitely faster.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:20 pm
Ah, I'm sorry I jumped to that conclusion. ^^"
I'd more think an S ranked punch would be more like a bullet. capable of doing considerable damage, but not enough to completely obliterate a human torso. I mean Tsunade and Orochimaru exchanged blows for a short while, and neither of them exploded into tiny bits. Orochimaru might have if Tsunade got a good punch in. But those two were extremely above average, one was immortal, the other was capable of rending a building or the ground she stood on with a single finger. Shinji is powerful, but I don't think we need someone capable of toppling a building with a poke as a passive ability. ( After the use of a jutsu. )
Raijuu is built for speed though, and only linear. Shinji could easily take it out by charging it straight on, dodging to the side just barely, turning on a dime, and then punching it in the back of the head. sweatdrop He'd probably come close to killing Sora from simply punching her. ( As I'm sure he'd use his two attacks per post to augment and then use a chakra blade or something. ) Heck, he could probably just dodge to the side, then side step and kick her in the stomach, Chakra blade his leg, and cut her in half. xD I just see the ability to one shot a Bijuu ( Even though the Bijuu is really restricted in movement, and therefore extremely easy to target ) as a bit strong. xD Heck, Kye would have a terrible time of fighting even an A rank Shinji. Luo might be hard pressed to fight him as he is now, or at least at B rank.
anyway, I'm going to skip off to study/minecraft. I really want to build an evil castle or something with this new Texture pack. ^>^
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:27 am
Hinote Tosatsu Just to satisfy everyone, I ask that Cobra post all of the Konaga augmentations in a new thread in the customs forum for review. I will look over them as soon as I have the time, and clear up any other issues before they arise. And when I say that I will check them, I mean that I will check them. I don't know what it is with second guessing me on everything lately, but I've been in charge of jutsu almost since I was added to crew for a reason. I do know what I'm doing. I have posted 5 augmentations, basically the relevant ones (the ones that Shinji knows and has access to). Bloodline Augmentations can only be accessed when said user is the same rank as the augmentation... so Genin cannot learn C-rank Augmentations.
Further augmentations can be re-submitted once Shinji (or another Konaga) reaches the applicable rank. For now however, I believe 5 is enough. They are almost verbatim as to what they have always been, by I clarified a few points and added a progressive tax to each back to back use of certain skills.
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:36 am
TvIaMsOqTuHeYz He'd probably come close to killing Sora from simply punching her. ( As I'm sure he'd use his two attacks per post to augment and then use a chakra blade or something. ) Heck, he could probably just dodge to the side, then side step and kick her in the stomach, Chakra blade his leg, and cut her in half. xD I just see the ability to one shot a Bijuu ( Even though the Bijuu is really restricted in movement, and therefore extremely easy to target ) as a bit strong. xD Heck, Kye would have a terrible time of fighting even an A rank Shinji. Luo might be hard pressed to fight him as he is now, or at least at B rank. Anyone who thinks this doesn't understand the progressive and destructive costs of the Konaga Bloodline. As I said previously, Shinji can elevate his ability to possibly match that of a Jounin level character for at most 3-4 posts before he burns himself out... and that is not a figure of speech, it's literal.
...after that, he essentially loses control and goes unconscious. Any experienced S-rank shinobi, such as Kye, or Luo, could keep up with Shinji, evading or neutralizing him for several posts until he burns out... that's the entire strategy for fighting a Konaga. All you have to do is survive long enough for the Bloodline's negative impacts to cripple the user, then you strike when they have no recourse.
Why is this so hard to understand?
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:00 am
Cobra_X TvIaMsOqTuHeYz He'd probably come close to killing Sora from simply punching her. ( As I'm sure he'd use his two attacks per post to augment and then use a chakra blade or something. ) Heck, he could probably just dodge to the side, then side step and kick her in the stomach, Chakra blade his leg, and cut her in half. xD I just see the ability to one shot a Bijuu ( Even though the Bijuu is really restricted in movement, and therefore extremely easy to target ) as a bit strong. xD Heck, Kye would have a terrible time of fighting even an A rank Shinji. Luo might be hard pressed to fight him as he is now, or at least at B rank. Anyone who thinks this doesn't understand the progressive and destructive costs of the Konaga Bloodline. As I said previously, Shinji can elevate his ability to possibly match that of a Jounin level character for at most 3-4 posts before he burns himself out... and that is not a figure of speech, it's literal.
...after that, he essentially loses control and goes unconscious. Any experienced S-rank shinobi, such as Kye, or Luo, could keep up with Shinji, evading or neutralizing him for several posts until he burns out... that's the entire strategy for fighting a Konaga. All you have to do is survive long enough for the Bloodline's negative impacts to cripple the user, then you strike when they have no recourse.
Why is this so hard to understand?See, you just stated the problem yourself. Any EXPERIENCED S RANK could beat you, sure. What happens when you face someone your own rank? What happens wheb YOU become an S rank? The 3-4 posts won't matter, any fight you get into will e over in 1-2 posts with an at-will D rank jutsu that doubles your speed instantly. Despite the negative aftereffects, its just not fair.
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:13 am
Gregar828 See, you just stated the problem yourself. Any EXPERIENCED S RANK could beat you, sure. What happens when you face someone your own rank? What happens wheb YOU become an S rank? The 3-4 posts won't matter, any fight you get into will e over in 1-2 posts with an at-will D rank jutsu that doubles your speed instantly. Despite the negative aftereffects, its just not fair. Experience refers to the RPer... not the rank.
If the amount of time it took for me to go from Genin -> Chuunin is any indication... I'm on track to be an S-ranked shinobi in 2022
If this fight is indication of how long it will take me to get to S-rank... I may have to pass the character onto my child...
I've fought multiple opponents my same rank and I've never received a complaint. I went through the ENTIRETY of the Chuunin exams without anyone batting an eye at my abilities. I fought David (a Jinchuuriki) , Zin, and Lance... no one complained once. I won all those fights, but not by landslides in any case.
You're looking at all the BENEFITS without weighing in any of the negative side effects. You're not looking at the fact that rolling can render me completely useless for a post, can reduce my speed and strength, or any of the other negative aspects of being a Konaga. Keep in mind, I have to roll constantly in every post... and Stamina drain never stops...
I don't see the balance issue, and clearly no one else has seen it before this point either. Is Konaga a strong Bloodline? Yes, to be sure... but its balanced with a lot of rules. I'm very careful not to misuse or abuse this... and I'd challenge you to find a place where I've irrevocably harmed the RP or destroyed people's RP experiences with my character and his abilities.
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:16 am
Gregar828 Cobra_X TvIaMsOqTuHeYz He'd probably come close to killing Sora from simply punching her. ( As I'm sure he'd use his two attacks per post to augment and then use a chakra blade or something. ) Heck, he could probably just dodge to the side, then side step and kick her in the stomach, Chakra blade his leg, and cut her in half. xD I just see the ability to one shot a Bijuu ( Even though the Bijuu is really restricted in movement, and therefore extremely easy to target ) as a bit strong. xD Heck, Kye would have a terrible time of fighting even an A rank Shinji. Luo might be hard pressed to fight him as he is now, or at least at B rank. Anyone who thinks this doesn't understand the progressive and destructive costs of the Konaga Bloodline. As I said previously, Shinji can elevate his ability to possibly match that of a Jounin level character for at most 3-4 posts before he burns himself out... and that is not a figure of speech, it's literal.
...after that, he essentially loses control and goes unconscious. Any experienced S-rank shinobi, such as Kye, or Luo, could keep up with Shinji, evading or neutralizing him for several posts until he burns out... that's the entire strategy for fighting a Konaga. All you have to do is survive long enough for the Bloodline's negative impacts to cripple the user, then you strike when they have no recourse.
Why is this so hard to understand?See, you just stated the problem yourself. Any EXPERIENCED S RANK could beat you, sure. What happens when you face someone your own rank? What happens wheb YOU become an S rank? The 3-4 posts won't matter, any fight you get into will e over in 1-2 posts with an at-will D rank jutsu that doubles your speed instantly. Despite the negative aftereffects, its just not fair. Very soon after this battle is done, I plan to have a rematch with Shinji. Please hold your judgement on what he can do to an equally (Or near to it) ranked shinobi until then. I have full confidence that David can hold his own, if not win the fight. Because unlike everyone else, I'm looking not just at the bonuses this character can achieve, but at the weaknesses caused by the bonuses, as well as the power of other characters in comparison. Shinji has an incredible amount of power, because his bloodline has an incredible amount of power. The bloodline has an incredible amount of power, because it has far more weaknesses than advantages, and balances itself out. You're looking at the bonuses as instant fight enders. What if I dodge his attack? He is instantly that much closer to losing the fight by default, and I've taken no damage. What if he actually hits you say? Well, good for him. Does it matter if a hit is powerful, or weak, if it kills you anyways? I guarantee you that I could kill an S ranked Shinji with a D ranked weak bodied assassin. Oh, it would take incredible amounts of luck and skill, but it could be done. "But Cobra has both skill, AND the power!" Yes, he does. Should I take away his power because he has the skill to use it? That's basically the opposite of how this guild has operated as long as I've been here. I'm working with Cobra now to balance out the techniques, so let's just lay off for a bit.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:31 pm
I would like to note that despite all this discussion, Shinji will still be moving as fast as he is in his most recent attack.
So Luo, you still need to answer for my qualms with your last response. You can't use that technique without hand seals and honestly, you don't have the time to initiate another technique before Shinji's attack is made.
...please respond in some manner, either by editing your post, or explaining why you think you have the time to accomplish what you want.
Thanks.
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:34 pm
Cobra_X TvIaMsOqTuHeYz He'd probably come close to killing Sora from simply punching her. ( As I'm sure he'd use his two attacks per post to augment and then use a chakra blade or something. ) Heck, he could probably just dodge to the side, then side step and kick her in the stomach, Chakra blade his leg, and cut her in half. xD I just see the ability to one shot a Bijuu ( Even though the Bijuu is really restricted in movement, and therefore extremely easy to target ) as a bit strong. xD Heck, Kye would have a terrible time of fighting even an A rank Shinji. Luo might be hard pressed to fight him as he is now, or at least at B rank. Anyone who thinks this doesn't understand the progressive and destructive costs of the Konaga Bloodline. As I said previously, Shinji can elevate his ability to possibly match that of a Jounin level character for at most 3-4 posts before he burns himself out... and that is not a figure of speech, it's literal.
...after that, he essentially loses control and goes unconscious. Any experienced S-rank shinobi, such as Kye, or Luo, could keep up with Shinji, evading or neutralizing him for several posts until he burns out... that's the entire strategy for fighting a Konaga. All you have to do is survive long enough for the Bloodline's negative impacts to cripple the user, then you strike when they have no recourse.
Why is this so hard to understand?It isn't that they couldn't out last him for several posts on equal ground, it is simply that as an S rank, doubling your speed would make you SS rank in speed, so you'd essentially be teleporting, for 3-4 posts. Kye could deal because if you're wearing metal she could tell where you are, and Luo would be able to react to dodge fairly easily. But you go against David, and he'd be hard pressed even at S rank with the Ultimate Defense Sand. ( Still unsure as to if Shinji's fist wouldn't go through the ultimate defense sand. >.> ) I understand that you're literally burning your arms and legs, which is very bad for shinji, but it is far too simple for Shinji to fix it, all he has to do is win, then meditate. I mean I understand that you dislike making nonsense posts like training ( I still disagree on this, but that isn't important. ) But the fact you can heal irreparable damage to a limb just by meditating seems a bit off. I mean if it took you out for like an obscene amount of posts, then I could see it, but it isn't really all that much, just about 5 or so uninterrupted? ( I haven't looked at the revised bloodline, so I'm unsure as to if that still remains, or is much more than it used to be. ) It would be a very difficult fight for any S ranks without extra sensory techniques to fight, is all I'm getting at. ( Such as the Jiton Bloodline, or the Ushio clan. )
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:45 pm
I'm not trying to say that Cobra is abusing it, I'm saying that it could be very much abused by anyone else. So if we ever so slightly nerf it, so that it only grows your speed by three ranks, then people won't be shooting around at A rank as a Genin, killing people in an exam if we ever have on of those again.
I mean I like Shinji, I like that he is a tank of an unstoppable mass of flesh. Cobra does a great job of not spamming moves, or just one shotting opponents. He does this wonderfully! But others wouldn't be so apt to pull a death punch.
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