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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:40 am
Wyvern Lord Vaida As for Mihira, Vika and Seth, should we just go full force assault on Jaren? I'll try using critical. What are our chances against him? Not high for a OTKO, worse if you use critical. 22% vs. 12.5%. We should definitely focus on him, especially with incoming barbarians, but we shouldn't expect to take him out this turn as long as he camps on that fort.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:49 pm
Gale, Shinon needs to move tonight.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:50 pm
I'd say have Shinon finish off the bandit on 25.
But you probably already have a plan.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:03 pm
Sorry about that, turn taken. Work's been crazy. ******** these dice, man.
I'm trying to figure out what crack I've been on recently, because none of my numbers are coming out right at the moment.
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:18 pm
So, I'm not sure if Vaida's attack calculation is either 6 or 15. If it's 15, Jaren dies from Vika's attack. If it's 6, he's down to I want to say 1 HP from mine. If he is dead, what's the plan for my revised turn? I assumed since there was no post from Jaren that he survived. ..Bother. If I had rolled a 7 he would've been most assuredly dead. Dang.
Scratch all that noise. I thought Jaren had 24 HP instead of 21. Anyways, still, if it's 15 from Mihira, Vika kills him, otherwise, I kill him. ..That went a lot better than I thought it would holy crap.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:05 pm
On the critical issue: Currently, the skill says "double total damage inflicted", which would make Vaida's first calculation correct, which is: (2d4 + str + all other buffs - enemy def)*2 = damage inflicted However, I'm more partial to critical working the same way that double damage is calculated for when, say, an arrow hits a flying unit, which is: (Die + str + all other buffs)*2 - enemy defenses = damage inflicted The difference in the two is that the first one will be the amount of the enemy's defense less damage than the second calculation. I intended critical to be the second calculation, but my wording was wrong and I think that's how the first calculation came to be. However, I'll leave what's fair up to popular opinion, so long as they leave the current situation of game 4 out of their determination.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:10 pm
I think the first formula sounds about right for the critical while the second formula for the double damage/bonus damage.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:20 pm
Why, though? Because that's not what I had intended. Plus, critical is double damage (not in the actual FE games- it's x3 in them)... and I have no clue what "bonus damage" is referring to. Alternatively, I could also alter it to incorporate that triple damage tradition and bring some middle ground in the damage output. (2d4 + str + all other buffs - enemy def)*3 = damage inflicted But I'd like to settle this soon since we need to know how to proceed in game 4, and I hadn't realized there was a problem.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:36 pm
The second calculation makes more sense to me, but at the same time, it's not how crits work in game-- they triple your damage, not your attack's "Might".
I would say the second calculation myself-- it only makes sense to apply defense once. But just pointing out that in-game criticals triple the damage you would have done on a non-crit, not the power of your attack.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:41 pm
I think for simplicity's sake we go with the second one. It's easier to have the same equation for essentially the same effect and I think it's less confusing too. The only difference is the die used.
The problem I have with the first equation is the enemy getting buffed just because the ally used the skill. All of the other skills don't increase enemy stats except for Gamble, but that's luck based.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:53 pm
I personally have no issue with either, but the second one does make more sense for the reasons stated.
As for what this does to Boardgame 4 is change my turn from attacking Jaren to using Pavise instead. I assume that's the smartest choice, because I don't wanna meet all those barbarians without fort cover. That's suicide.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:35 pm
If this changes the outcome of game 4, I'd like Seth to bottleneck the junction with Pavise because the last thing we need is three barbarians hitting that fort when Jaren's already been a pain in the ******** a**. scratch that, you will die, see below
Personally, I'm game for any formula that isn't how it's currently worded. Running the numbers with the current formula, Critical's effectiveness pays off less the more Mihira's base STR is nullified. For instance, for a hypothetical enemy with zero defense, Mihira has a chance of doing a whopping maximum of 30 damage with Critical [(8+7)*2], compared to the measly 17 at standard [10+7]. Compare this with what actually happened, and we end up with 12 maximum for Critical [((8+7)-9)*2 = 6*2] and 8 for standard [10-2]. For hypothetical outcomes, it doesn't make sense to do only four more damage for gambling on a Critical because you shoved a lance in an armor knight's face and he ate said hypothetical max outcome. And as that defense goes up, that benefit gets smaller and smaller -- +6 damage when the DEF cancels out STR, and on from there. 6.25% vs 10% for optimal outcomes.
So I'm game for the formula being optimized, because the risk doesn't seem worth the payout when there's only a one in four chance of activating Critical, and only two of those results even give you anything above what you could do with a standard attack. But I won't say to what I prefer, as that wouldn't be fair to the current situation.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:57 pm
Based on this conversation, we'll be using this: (2d4 + str + all other buffs)*2 - enemy defenses = damage inflicted
It's easier and less confusing to use the same formula where available. Vika defeats Jaren, and Seth can redo his turn. Unless you want to keep your d10 result for the pavis and just make a movement roll, pretending you did it first. Just this once. If you're only going to move 1 space, don't bother with a movement roll, I just don't know what your target space is.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:03 pm
And Vika and Jaren just got to have a hardcore boss-style battle dialogue. Hell yeah! Seth, with three Gambles and barbarians cancelling out your DEF with their STR, you have a 44% chance of dying unprotected with that Pavise roll of 6. Except you're poisoned, so that's more of a 56% chance. If you camp on the fort previously occupied by The Myrmidon Formerly Known as Jaren, you keep them from doing so, and you drop to a 22.5% chance of death. Do that.
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:54 pm
WhirlwindTerror And Vika and Jaren just got to have a hardcore boss-style battle dialogue. Hell yeah! Seth, with three Gambles and barbarians cancelling out your DEF with their STR, you have a 44% chance of dying unprotected with that Pavise roll of 6. Except you're poisoned, so that's more of a 56% chance. If you camp on the fort previously occupied by The Myrmidon Formerly Known as Jaren, you keep them from doing so, and you drop to a 22.5% chance of death. Do that. Alright. And thus, befitting of my true knightly valor, I will stand on the Fort formerly occupied by The Myrmidon Formerly Known as Jaren. TIME TO TANK. BEHOLD AND TREMBLE AT MY DEFENSIVE MIGHT!
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