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 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:45 am
Oryn One shot isn't THAT big a downfall. They are BS4, after all. Besides, it's not as if you'd be running only one or two of them. With Necrons, if you're going to take a unit, take LOTS of it, the more likely they'll get thier WBB. My friend runs 6 Heavy D's in his current Necron list. So he runs two maxed out squads of three, at 195pts. For that, I would take another Lord or a squad of Immortals.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:57 am
Everlasting Chaos Destroyers of any variety have nothing on the tank-eating powers of a Scarab Swarm. 3nodding If I am going to have a tank-eating close combat unit, in my mind there is only two ways to go. Flayed Ones with Disruption Fields or a Destroyer Lord with a Warscythe. With the Flayed Ones, all you need is 4 in a squad at 84 pts (18pt model, 3pt Disruption Field). 12 attacks on charge, 50% chance to hit, 1/6 chance to glance. In my next battle I am going to trail it to see how it goes because in just rolling to dice, I was always getting atleast one glancing hit. I have used a squad of 10 Flayed Ones for this purpose before, in an in-store big battle. I landed 3 glancing hits, which is statically right, and blew the rhino up. With the Destroyer Lord, he can move just the same as the scarabs, but is toughness 6 and has the "We'll Be Back" rule. With a Warscythe, he gets 2D6 + S. I was going to trial it on a Dreadie today, but he was taken down by a Multi Metla and two Plamsa guns. And then failed his will be back.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:24 am
ManagerKyoto Everlasting Chaos Destroyers of any variety have nothing on the tank-eating powers of a Scarab Swarm. 3nodding If I am going to have a tank-eating close combat unit, in my mind there is only two ways to go. Flayed Ones with Disruption Fields or a Destroyer Lord with a Warscythe. With the Flayed Ones, all you need is 4 in a squad at 84 pts (18pt model, 3pt Disruption Field). 12 attacks on charge, 50% chance to hit, 1/6 chance to glance. In my next battle I am going to trail it to see how it goes because in just rolling to dice, I was always getting atleast one glancing hit. I have used a squad of 10 Flayed Ones for this purpose before, in an in-store big battle. I landed 3 glancing hits, which is statically right, and blew the rhino up. With the Destroyer Lord, he can move just the same as the scarabs, but is toughness 6 and has the "We'll Be Back" rule. With a Warscythe, he gets 2D6 + S. I was going to trial it on a Dreadie today, but he was taken down by a Multi Metla and two Plamsa guns. And then failed his will be back. Granted, the Destroyer Lord is an excellent choice. But Scarabs are considerably better than Flayed Ones. One base of Scarabs is 5 points cheaper than a single Flayed One (with both having Disruption Fields), and they have 1 attack more than the Flayed Ones. So for that same number of points I could have 5 Scarabs and get 20 attacks on the charge.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:12 pm
ManagerKyoto So he runs two maxed out squads of three, at 195pts. For that, I would take another Lord or a squad of Immortals. Actually, he runs three squads of two. And he does it so he can actually pen vehicles, and so he can insta-kill my pesky Crisis Suits. As for the discussion on CC tankhunters... Why? Maybe as a Tau player I'm biased towards shooting, but why would you want a unit that can take on vehicles in CC? Sure you'll pop Leman Russes Basilisks and other stationary targets real well, but when you're attacking anything moving fast, or a skimmer, you're hitting on 6+ and then you need another 6 to glance. Just seems to me like shooting is the way to go for more consistant AT power.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:11 pm
Oryn ManagerKyoto So he runs two maxed out squads of three, at 195pts. For that, I would take another Lord or a squad of Immortals. Actually, he runs three squads of two. And he does it so he can actually pen vehicles, and so he can insta-kill my pesky Crisis Suits. As for the discussion on CC tankhunters... Why? Maybe as a Tau player I'm biased towards shooting, but why would you want a unit that can take on vehicles in CC? Sure you'll pop Leman Russes Basilisks and other stationary targets real well, but when you're attacking anything moving fast, or a skimmer, you're hitting on 6+ and then you need another 6 to glance. Just seems to me like shooting is the way to go for more consistant AT power. True, but remember that a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 attacks on the charge. Not to mention those skimmers are normally equipped with big guns and tend to target things like Heavy Destroyers before they can get a chance to fire at them, but a squad of Scarabs is a fair bit more difficult for things with Rail Guns to get rid of.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:49 pm
Everlasting Chaos Oryn ManagerKyoto So he runs two maxed out squads of three, at 195pts. For that, I would take another Lord or a squad of Immortals. Actually, he runs three squads of two. And he does it so he can actually pen vehicles, and so he can insta-kill my pesky Crisis Suits. As for the discussion on CC tankhunters... Why? Maybe as a Tau player I'm biased towards shooting, but why would you want a unit that can take on vehicles in CC? Sure you'll pop Leman Russes Basilisks and other stationary targets real well, but when you're attacking anything moving fast, or a skimmer, you're hitting on 6+ and then you need another 6 to glance. Just seems to me like shooting is the way to go for more consistant AT power. True, but remember that a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 attacks on the charge. Not to mention those skimmers are normally equipped with big guns and tend to target things like Heavy Destroyers before they can get a chance to fire at them, but a squad of Scarabs is a fair bit more difficult for things with Rail Guns to get rid of.
Yes,a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 on the charge, but then how many of those on the charge will actually be in base contact? 40mil bases for the scarabs, around a small flying base...
I work that out to not even ten.
So you're not getting your full potential, unless you're against something like that new FW Avatar ot Bloodthirster, where it is actually possible to put all your bases around it.
-Mykal
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Everlasting Chaos True, but remember that a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 attacks on the charge. Not to mention those skimmers are normally equipped with big guns and tend to target things like Heavy Destroyers before they can get a chance to fire at them, but a squad of Scarabs is a fair bit more difficult for things with Rail Guns to get rid of. Not really. According to the new FAQ, the doubling of wounds for Vulnerable to Blasts applies to the whole squad, and occurs before Instakill. So a Single Railgun submunition, wounding 4 scarabs, will instakill 8 bases.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:12 pm
Everlasting Chaos True, but remember that a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 attacks on the charge. Not to mention those skimmers are normally equipped with big guns and tend to target things like Heavy Destroyers before they can get a chance to fire at them, but a squad of Scarabs is a fair bit more difficult for things with Rail Guns to get rid of. 40 attacks on the charge comes to an average of 6-7 hits on skimmers. From there, 1-2 will glance. Is it really worth it for an entire squad of scarabs? Also, like Mykal said, they might not even all get in base.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:35 pm
Pontius Pirate Everlasting Chaos True, but remember that a full unit of Scarabs gets 40 attacks on the charge. Not to mention those skimmers are normally equipped with big guns and tend to target things like Heavy Destroyers before they can get a chance to fire at them, but a squad of Scarabs is a fair bit more difficult for things with Rail Guns to get rid of. 40 attacks on the charge comes to an average of 6-7 hits on skimmers. From there, 1-2 will glance. Is it really worth it for an entire squad of scarabs? Also, like Mykal said, they might not even all get in base. Actually it isn't hard to get all of them into base. First of all it's against a tank, so there's plenty of room. They also move as Jetbikes, so they can assault anything within 18" at the start of the turn. And then there's that 2" from a model in base contact thing. And where's this FAQ you speak of? Because last I heard template weapons can only kill anything under the template, which means there's no way you'll take out 8 bases with 1 shot.
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:01 pm
Everlasting Chaos Actually it isn't hard to get all of them into base. First of all it's against a tank, so there's plenty of room. They also move as Jetbikes, so they can assault anything within 18" at the start of the turn. And then there's that 2" from a model in base contact thing. And where's this FAQ you speak of? Because last I heard template weapons can only kill anything under the template, which means there's no way you'll take out 8 bases with 1 shot. Wow, then you haven't even looked in the 4th ed. rulebook, huh? From the section on Blast weapons, p30: "The defending player may remove any casualties from the unit as a whole, not just from models beneath the Blast marker." From the section on template weapons, p31: "As with blast weapons, casualties inflicted with template weapons do not need to be taken from amongst the models actually covered by the template, but must come from within the range of the firer." Scarabs are Swarms, and all swarms have the Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates rule. Each unsaved wound from a blast weapon inflicts two wounds, not one. And according to the 40k Rulebook FAQ: 40k Rulebook FAQ Q. How do the Instant Death and Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates rules interact? In other words, what happens when you shoot a swarm with a plasma cannon? A. Each wound inflicted is multiplied by two and consequently every wound inflicted kills two models in the unit Vulnerable to Blast. I.e. if a plasma cannon hits and wounds against a swarm with T3 or lower, it Instantly Kills two bases. Hence if I hit and wound 4 Scarabs, I instakill 8 bases. In all actuallity, 4 is a pretty low number of wounding hits. I can probably nail 6 with the large blast.
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:28 pm
I have just started my first Warhammer 40k army, I don't know why but the Necrons just seemed to catch my attention maybe its because in some way the remind me of Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy, But the point is I chose them and I have an okay start but I need to expand my forces and prepare for another great harvest.
This is what I have to start with
HQ: Necron Lord
Elites: None
Troops: 20 Necron Warriors
Fast Attack: 3 Scarab Swarms and 3 Necron Destroyers
Heavy Support: None
Any suggestions on what to get next and tactics for these fine warriors would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:32 pm
Kenshin Kiyuraki I have just started my first Warhammer 40k army, I don't know why but the Necrons just seemed to catch my attention maybe its because in some way the remind me of Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy, But the point is I chose them and I have an okay start but I need to expand my forces and prepare for another great harvest.
This is what I have to start with
HQ: Necron Lord
Elites: None
Troops: 20 Necron Warriors
Fast Attack: 3 Scarab Swarms and 3 Necron Destroyers
Heavy Support: None
Any suggestions on what to get next and tactics for these fine warriors would be greatly appreciated. More warriors first off. due to your "run away!" rule, you want to take alot of warriors (40 is a good number, more is always good). One monolith will probably be good. Any more is a waste of points. Also, after you get a monolith, look into a unit of pariahs.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:37 am
Kenshin Kiyuraki I have just started my first Warhammer 40k army, I don't know why but the Necrons just seemed to catch my attention maybe its because in some way the remind me of Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy, But the point is I chose them and I have an okay start but I need to expand my forces and prepare for another great harvest.
This is what I have to start with
HQ: Necron Lord
Elites: None
Troops: 20 Necron Warriors
Fast Attack: 3 Scarab Swarms and 3 Necron Destroyers
Heavy Support: None
Any suggestions on what to get next and tactics for these fine warriors would be greatly appreciated. Depends what you want to do and how much you want to spend. A mobile force will use Immortals, Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers, and as many othermobile fire platforms as possible. Some folks like to use Scarabs or Wariths or both to tie up people in assault. A phalanx of Warriors is resilient but slow. Also depends what your local metagame is. What are most of your opponents playing as? Marines? Tau? Guard? What options do they use when play?
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:21 am
Well my opponents are usally random, the most commonly used armies are Space Marines, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos. Those are the most common at my local hobby shop.
I definatly think that extra warriors are a good Idea and will get those as soon as possible.
The Monolith I was definatly thinking about getting. But I will only field a second in a point match of about 3000 points.
I like the sound of the Immortals plus the way they look.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:29 am
Kenshin Kiyuraki Well my opponents are usally random, the most commonly used armies are Space Marines, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos. Those are the most common at my local hobby shop.
I definatly think that extra warriors are a good Idea and will get those as soon as possible.
The Monolith I was definatly thinking about getting. But I will only field a second in a point match of about 3000 points.
I like the sound of the Immortals plus the way they look. I am thinking of getting a second monolith for my 1500pt army and just going a lord w/ res orb and 4 squads of 12 warriors. I have seen it done before. Have the warriors as far back as possible and deep strike the two monoliths at opposite sides of teh table. Your foe will not know what hit them.
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