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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:51 pm
Except if a person chose to omit details and then use them to their advantage later when it proved convenient.. they would be punished. If not in grading or outright docking of points, then you could bring it up to a judge, who could overturn what your opponent just did.
Your situation relies on the idea that a person utilizes the judge call.. and then conveniently forgets that it exists when their opponent decides to do something that is clearly abusive or not exactly sporting from an OOC perspective. It also implies that people aren't penalized for doing unsporting or unfair things like that via grading. They are.
I can't speak for Vin or the GTB, but in HoH if a person left out details with the sole intent of profiting from leaving their opponent in the dark, they would get punished for it.
Note that there's a difference between omitting relevant details, and foreshadowing or not including non-relevant details. For example: my character keeps a knife hidden on him. I never say that in my posts until he goes to pull it out, because it's not something that would reasonably be salient otherwise.
Or, when he starts to use or generate his powers, I foreshadow it, but I don't explicitly go "HE'S PREPPING HIS ENERGY TO MAKE AN ATTACK IN THE NEXT POST." I just utilize writing and context clues (he uses electricity, so his eyes light up, the smell of burnt ozone permeates the air around him, people can hear snaps and crackles, etc). Obviously I provide all relevant details when making the attack, but I don't paint a giant sign that says my character is gathering energy, although if someone asked me, on the basis that their character has some sort of generic energy sight, then I would tell them.
In other words, what you just described is simply another situation where a judge could intervene upon request because your opponent is pulling things out of thin air.. or an instance where, after the fight, the person would be penalized in their score for doing it even if it wasn't brought to a judge's attention at the time it occurred.
There's a reason for the point system, and it's so we can both award people for excelling, and punish people for acting like asshats. Two way street. Generally an effective two-way street. Not perfect, but nine times out of ten it works when properly applied.
EDIT:: This is exactly what the sportsmanship category in HoH was developed for. We wanted a specific way to punish people for acting like assholes in their fight by constantly ignoring damage, purposefully obfuscating relevant information, abusing character abilities, etc. The system is basically an incremental scale of punishment via loss of points. If someone repeatedly plays unfairly, they're not going to like the results.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
******** it. Maybe I'm just used to having people turn every meta-advantage against me. I'm not used to having judges who don't know me personally and always side with or against me no matter what. I tend to ignore judging because of that, since it's always slanted one way or the other. I usually just try to solve the problem myself because it annoys the s**t out of me.
I just thought it was a clever way to turn deficit into surplus, as it were. Dunno about Red. It probably just never ocurred to her to call a judge on the same situation for the same reason she was already refused a call in.
And I would consider things like distance between characters to be important information which can be implied but hasn't been in this fight. I think Virtue could use some more things like that. He's talking about details Red lacks, but doesn't give examples, either. Can we all just figure out what constitutes important detailing?
Also, WoTS, your reasons for declaring it wrong were easily refuted. You were right with wrong proofs and wrong words.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:28 am
Yeah, it used to be that way here, too, with the meta-info.
Then we realized, hey, this isn't ******** doing anyone any good. All it does is cause problems. How about whoever the ******** does it stops, and we learn to stop trying to win by any means necessary and leave the outcome of the fight to purely what goes on in-character? No more metagaming or going "Oh you forgot detail x or y so rather than letting you edit I'll just take advantage of it" or "I'm being intentionally vague so you can't properly respond."
And so the trend for several years has been firmly set against playing in that fashion. The concept that we - or, at least I and a number of others - try to promote is to have an entertaining fight, and to enjoy the competitive aspect without having to focus on it. Winning or losing is decided by what's going on in the fight, and either way the focus should be having a mutually-enjoyable match, not on just dominating an opponent to show how great you are at playing pretend over the internet.
When it comes to problems in a fight, I generally think the best approach is for the players to work it out. If they reach an impasse and cannot come to an agreement, then go to the judges. Don't forgo compromise, but don't also ignore the option to ask for a judge's intervention. Both decisions are unwise.
I think range would be a relevant detail, as well as other things (such as defining the specifics of movement; how fast, how strong, where something is aimed). Basically the "how, what, when, where, and why" of an action.
But I'm not staffing this tournament (ironically I'm actually banned from participating, but Vin never banned me from the guild for some reason), so I can't speak for Vintrict or his decisions.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:37 am
I just think it's tit for tat, and maybe this will goad him into having the information in his posts. I don't think this is any one party's fault, either. It's between both of them. Petty, maybe, but the sorts of details I think and you think and Red think are relevent, he won't provide. Distance, speed, angle, strength... he just doesn't have any of it. I also think it's a bit ridiculous that all of his other fights are required reading for his descriptions, but that's another kettle of fish.
Like you said, though. This isn't my torunament. Vintrict can run it any way he wants.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:07 am
I just think you're stupid, but since I have to be to work soon I'll keep this brief. You keep going on about a lack of detail, but what you're asking for, is fluff. If my character stumbling or moving clumsily, I would have written stumbling or some kind synonym for it. I didn't, in fact, I'm using terminology(at least DnD since I've been playing it lately) for the type of move action that is the most careful in the game. You're trying to dump post length on me because I'm not including information that isn't relevant to what's happening. That's what good writers do, they don't throw in useless information for the sake of lengthening their piece. You have been provided with adequate information on distance and timing. Since I haven't actually made any attacks, that's all that's needed. Without having any idea of actual distance since Red ******** that up early on, I'm giving you a fairly vague but still very usable bit of it. I'm actually telling you exactly when something happens, how he does, and how he came about it. How is that not providing enough detail? It is. You have had 3 people already tell you that there was nothing wrong with my posting style at all. Absolutely nothing, stop complaining about it, because what you're doing now is bad roleplay. Simple as that. And likewise, as I've noted before, Red isn't posting any more description of her actual movements than I am. Oh, and I never once refused to provide information you wanted OOCly. I did have to ask, what, 3 times to figure out what he was wearing though. I still don't know s**t about the shield because you obviously don't even know what the shield is/looks like. 
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:32 am
Can we just close this match? Take it to judging and get it over with?
If not, I'm asking OOCly. What does your character look like? Tell me something about his personality that isn't "I am a demon and thus far too cool and powerful to care about anything". Are there any specifics about him that anyone looking would immediately notice? Is there any information that would be relevant at all to a crusader that said crusader would be able to tell?
You know, that information that was asked for before? The information you told us to go read past fights to get rather than just giving it to us.
While you're at it, if you want details about what Afton looks like, go read another fight he's in. I didn't make up this character. I don't know everything about him. I don't play this character. Why am I so awful for knowing jack s**t about the middle ages and this character that isn't mine?
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:53 am
Fighting Fefnir Can we just close this match? Take it to judging and get it over with? If not, I'm asking OOCly. What does your character look like? Tell me something about his personality that isn't "I am a demon and thus far too cool and powerful to care about anything". Are there any specifics about him that anyone looking would immediately notice? Is there any information that would be relevant at all to a crusader that said crusader would be able to tell? You know, that information that was asked for before? The information you told us to go read past fights to get rather than just giving it to us. While you're at it, if you want details about what Afton looks like, go read another fight he's in. I didn't make up this character. I don't know everything about him. I don't play this character. Why am I so awful for knowing jack s**t about the middle ages and this character that isn't mine?
You're awful because you are defending something that, by your own admission, you know nothing about.
GG.
Also, the more I read Afton, the more I'd rather fight Razel in the next match even though I know he doesn't want to be here anymore.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:00 am
And yet, unbelievably, I know more about this character that he does. Y'know, because he's not trying or something. Insert your own witticism here.
I answered as many questions of his as I could, as accurately as I could, and then told him that anything I had wrong or missed, Red could tell him. Except he didn't bother to ask her. He just kept asking me to answer the parts I don't know. And of course, hen couldn't be bothered to take his own advice and read one of her past fights for the information.
I just figured he has this idea that Red and I are the same person. We're not. He needs to talk to his actual opponent if he wants answers from the horses mouth.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:18 am
I locked the match. Mainly because both opponents cannot get along, though this is mainly because red ended up asking details that don't involve the tournament itself. I wanted to close the fight on Sunday, but this is one of those times when I'll have to enforce an obvious ceasefire.
Also, Fefnir, any other discussions you have, don't put them here in ooc. This will be left up to judging now, so all information related to the fight should end here.
Judgments will be released this weekend. Possibly tomorrow.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:27 am
Thank god it's ******** over.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:47 am
Sigil Warden Also, the more I read Afton, the more I'd rather fight Razel in the next match even though I know he doesn't want to be here anymore. The more I stick around the more I get disgusted by the unwillingness people have to simply work together and tell a good story. I can't believe that all three of my fights so far I have had to comment on the fact that my opponents simply didn't read the information that was provided for them. Really, I've been plagued with people who don't know what the ******** they're talking about. At least Unnamed made an honest mistake and after we got through that it wasn't a big deal at all. Vash, I understand he wanted to win. But this...This seriously topped it as possibly my worst RP experience on Gaia. ********, maybe in my whole RP career. I've been doing competitive RP for a really long time, normally looked forward to these tournaments, and never before have I had to play with someone so...Dumb. Like, people I thought were dumb before don't even compare to this. I know everyone isn't like that, but it really kills any motivation to want to write. So if for some reason I don't move on, which I don't know at this point since this is another fight that went absolutely no where, and right before I had finished getting myself into the position I wanted too, I hope you have a better experience than I did. Because character design wise, the knight is so retarded that the two who should know the most about him don't. That's really bad. I'm glad none of my friends have the time to do HoH this year, because if this is what's to look forward to then I think RP, at least in this style, has finally died. Oh well, I got plenty of other outlets for RP that are actually fun and conductive to good story telling. But if I do move on, well, if you don't take the posting style personally you'll likely have a bit of fun. I mean, obviously have to do a 3rd place fight anyway but yeah. Buuut yeah, this got really stupid as soon as Red stopped posting in the OOC out of some fear of losing points and the whiteknight had to try and well, be all whiteknightish.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:58 am
Vintrict This will be left up to judging now, so all information related to the fight should end here.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:02 pm
This has more to do with you being an idiot than the actual fight.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:45 pm
Since you didn't bother to do any research into the character and didn't ask the person who made him up anything about him, I don't think you have much room to talk on what Afton is or isn't. For clarification, she stopped talking in the OOC because she knew that inevitably she'd just get pissed at you for whatever rude thing you said next.
Thank you for reminding me why I can't stand RPing anymore. I was going to try to do some writing, and then I saw the length and storytelling potential your posts had. Mechanically, there might be absolutely nothing wrong with with your posts even though by every standard I've ever been given they lack content, but because it does absolutely nothing to make me interested about generic demon character whoever I don't want to read anything about him. Why in the ******** would anyone want to write with the guy who posts like an itinerary?
And I'm not even happy with how Red was posting. I mean ********, I have to force myself not to spellcheck her like 90 percent of the time, and the details you were complaining about? So was I. I couldn't stand how vague she was being in some places, but at least I could sort of understand the character. Afton's simple as s**t: hate evil, swing sword at evil. Everything works toward that end. And even if some of the details are sketchy to me, I at least know that he's fictional. The historicity of this fictional character isn't exactly a huge ******** deal in my book.
It's like, what do I want, solid movement and no character, or tons of character and vague details? The answer is neither. All the details you're missing and all the details she's missing just annoy the ******** out of me. And then I don't even know you and you're a ******** p***k to someone I do know, so I hate you OOC. And I can't stand what I can see of your character, so I hate him too. And then some guy comes to your aid who I've never met but I find out is a past judge of this tournament and knows you in real life, so I feel like you've got an in, and the arena is to your advantage, and you say outright you don't even care anymore but keep posting for whatever reason, and every single ******** thing is wrong on both sides.
This was just a waste of time and a ******** to boot. Everybody feels like they lost in the end. The fight sucked. The OOC sucked. The people mostly sucked. And in the end everyone is right about basically everything they said, so it's just a question of who ******** up least.
It irritates the s**t out of me. This whole ******** RPing thing irritates the s**t out of me.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:48 pm
I don't know X IRL. He lives somewhere too hot for me. But, as I'm too busy grilling up some spicy ribs, this will have to suffice for now until I feel like typing up a long winded version of this.
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Reply
