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You good sir have never played MTG then.

Casual Player: Someone who plays for the enjoyment of the activity.

Cut-Throat Player: Someone who plays to win, Period.

Pretty much in a nut shell those are your definitions. You are one of those or a hybrid of the two, which I happen to be.

You are defiantly a Casual Player and that is why I love ya. whee

But I can understand Vin's side of things because from time to time I play cut-throat. So i know that side of the role-playing house.

Silly Llama. dramallama You are VERY DIFFERENT from Vin and the differences are numerous.

I am not talking bout characters or role-playing history. Psychologically, the way you think, write, break down logic, set priorities, and view perspectives is way different.

I agree Vin would not fit in most of the Barton town forums, you on the other hand are like me and can get along with just about anyone. Hence why we are friends, you and I think more closely alike then you and Vin.

An RP competition is only as relevant as the collective experience created by its creators and participants.

If the tournament is Booty and you win it, and people can't even remember the name of the thing, much less that you won it, then it, I guess as you said, doesn't matter.

If your fights suck d**k and you won by NO Uing and power playing, then that win is made even more irrelevent.

In truth, I would argue that you lost by being the king of a shitty tournament. Especially if, as a result of you winning the tournament, you have people who are less willing to play with you at the end of it, because you painted yourself as this CUT-THROAT ******** U RPer.

So I guess you can definitely lose an RP. Vin Loses Roleplaying all the time. lol.

The closest thing to winning is making sure that your involvement attributed to the enjoyment of yourself and those who played with you. Nothing else matters.

Fair conditions OOC do not equate casual approach.

There's no skill involved in victory through hollow means. And victory can be obtained in a roleplayed conflict as "convincing your opponent they are thwarted." [Where "your opponent" can be the setting, an antagonist, or a trial.]

People who need to hide details and ramp up their character into godhood are not cut-throat. They're demonstrating the simple fact they can't function without those advantages. If anything, they're the casuals in roleplay; they don't want to think or put any real effort into gaining ground in a disadvantageous position, so instead they write a MySpace page worth of powers and strengths and then try to cheat the system to win by default as hard as possible to placate their ego and inability to write.

So even ignoring the fact they're missing the point entirely -and- are typically cringe worthy as ******** to read, they're also on an objective result basis the sort who tend to get dismissed by their opposition and judgement criteria because they're fighting their battles OOC and in vague writing over actually, legitimately besting their opponent.

Case in point, old Ertai had absolutely no skill whatsoever. I read his fights. While his writing was imaginative, it all boiled down to "I'm a God, DOMINION" and one-upping everything his opponent did with a list of powers longer than the Declaration of Independence. It was devoid of any artistry, challenge, effort, and only held entertainment in the ironic sense from people criticizing it.

Where as his more recent incarnations where the character's had massive growth and plays more like a God in a mortal setting should, and where he actually fights with things like properly executed swordplay [a rarity on Gaia] versus just making up b*****d children of planar magic and psionics to banish his opponents into oblivion, are so much ******** better it's unreal.

I'm pissed off it's 3 AM and I can't sleep.

you guys are funny. You realize that you win or loose purely based on how you look at things. In a roleplay if you set your goal to get the girl, kill the dragon , or dominate everyone and you accomplish it then you win. Whether everyone hates you in the end or your skill is bad etc is just details. For someone like Vin (don't get me wrong I'm not justifying anything I'm just pointing out something you guys are overlooking) he's a man who goes by the results. As long as he gets what he wanted he won, for him that means the end resulting judgment. For you guys it's self fulfillment. What your arguing is almost comparable to watching people argue religion. Why? Because religion is mostly about morals and living your life a certain way. RP'ing can be alluded to that. What a person looks for in a roleplay is invariably different from the next person, you can't force someone to roleplay differently than they do or even change who they are online because you have a social incompatibility with the person.

In short you are focused on the details and not everyone is, You can't force the person who looks at the pot of gold at the end of the dungeon and ignores all the cool side things in the dungeon to take his eyes of the gold, even though the rest of the party wants the gold to be the icing of the cake, to him it is the cake.