|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:12 pm
Berezi scotch0069 Well, i see these conversations more of understanding the other perspective. I will agree that the internet misinterpets the words, because there is no body language to show how we feel when we are saying these words. So it is hard to convey thoughts without offending someone online, and back to the main idea of this post.. whee Sin is sin yes, and paul did have a thorn in his side BUT his actions shown that he would always pray to God to save him. Thats teh devotion. the world is a very decitful place. and its hard to tell fact from fiction. And not to stereotype, so please dont misunderstand, it seems that most people that try to argue that Homosexuality can frustrated because they dotn have a lot of people backing them, and their arch rival as one person put it, "heathen-bashing bible-bat studded christians" why i dunno, but it does get frustrating. Yeah. But realize that any true Christian, whether gay or straight, will pray to God on account of their sins and be devoted to Him. And that is really true. How would you feel if the loudest voice of Christianity turned against you and all those who listen to it turned against you, too? to be truthful I hear it quite often. Now a lot of the times i seem to find the wrong spot at the wrong time, but like i said before its mostly because of misinterpetation online. In reality im quite calm and composed with debate. And like you said before any true christian be gay or straight would turn to God, the question im trying to find is the people that are manipulating words that make things seem true that are not... like the example i stated before, a person saying that they hear God and dont need to read the Bible... I see that as a false hood. Like a liar tell the person being lied to dont look for the truth. And well, i deal with people turning up their nose to me, and turning their backs on me by just pressing on. If the Bible stands on the side that having sexual relations with the same sex is wrong. Well the Bible is spoken by God, thus God has put it into Law that Homosexual behavior is wrong. Thus my standing. My question is where is the misunderstanding in this?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:31 pm
Thanks, lol.
PS I really have a thing against quoting...I don't really know why, I just do xd
Of course I'm not perfect. If I was, Jesus wouldn't have had to have died for me. God and I have been working through many things, as of late, and I know He's not done with me yet...as much as I would like Him to be xP
I believe I probably forgot to mention, somewhere along the line, that that is exactly what I think, in terms of homosexuality being in the same category as other sins. All sin is the same in God's eyes, be it lying or murdering. Of course, this is much easier to spew onto paper than to actually accept. In my way of seeing homosexuality as a sin, it's not like I'm saying that it's 'the worst of the worst'. The topic at hand just happened to be about that. Were this topic about gossip, lying, cheating or murdering, my argument would be the same.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:21 pm
=P That's all good. Quoting does tend to stretch the page.
Yeah, it's true that it's the same as any other sin. But handling it is very nuanced. On the one hand, you have the Bible which, though some say things to the contrary, says that sexual relations with people of the same sex are wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean that having that orientation is wrong, too. You also have the testimony of people whom I have no good reason to say are not my brother/sister in Christ that are gay. Often they've struggled and wished to be changed but to no avail. Is it possible that they're not truly Christians? Yes, but it's possible that I'm not either. What reason do I have to doubt the sincerity of their faith? I wonder what to make of that.
Imagine if someone told you that on account of the sin still present in your life, you either are not as good a Christian as you should be or you just aren't one. What if it's sin you've struggled with for years? How hurtful would that be for you to hear from someone who is supposed to be your brother/sister by promise?
Your opinion is fine, but be graceful and loving in giving it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:26 pm
scotch0069 to be truthful I hear it quite often. Now a lot of the times i seem to find the wrong spot at the wrong time, but like i said before its mostly because of misinterpetation online. In reality im quite calm and composed with debate. And like you said before any true christian be gay or straight would turn to God, the question im trying to find is the people that are manipulating words that make things seem true that are not... like the example i stated before, a person saying that they hear God and dont need to read the Bible... I see that as a false hood. Like a liar tell the person being lied to dont look for the truth. And well, i deal with people turning up their nose to me, and turning their backs on me by just pressing on. If the Bible stands on the side that having sexual relations with the same sex is wrong. Well the Bible is spoken by God, thus God has put it into Law that Homosexual behavior is wrong. Thus my standing. My question is where is the misunderstanding in this? So God doesn't speak to us in prayers? I don't think he was saying that you don't need to read the Bible, but that he heard God in a place other than scripture. God does sometimes ask us to do things that seemingly contradict scripture. Remember in Acts how Peter was told to eat the unclean food? Dining with Gentiles and eating their food was what God wanted Peter to do - which seemed contradictory to scripture. It wasn't - Peter had simply misunderstood it - but it seemed to contradict and God asked Peter anyway. At the time, what kinds of food you should eat was a big deal. For centuries scripture had been understood in that fashion, but when God spoke the understanding shifted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:11 pm
I think the funny thing is is that I agree with you, lol. If I've said anything that has implied otherwise, than that would be my horrible way with words. I never stated that I believed homosexuals would be going to hell. Some Christians who mean well just have their minds set in a wrong fashion, englufed too much by religion. It happens in many cases, not just when dealing with homosexuality. As for the whole orientation but not acting thing, I am not entirely convinced that one is born that way. Yes, I am quite aware of all the evidence that may support otherwise (sat through a whole class on it, actually) but I am still a little skeptical. Satan and God are both very powerful, and sometimes we don't give enough credit to the former, though obviously God is stronger. But again, that's my opinion and belief.
I do have homosexual friends, they know that I am a Christian and they know where I stand on the issue. They're fine with it, and some even ask me questions. I may believe it is wrong, but being hateful about it is just as wrong. It is inheretly against everything that Christianity stands for to act out like that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Yeah. I'll be honest with you - I'm not entirely convinced that one is born homosexual either. It's not even the science that makes me lean towards being convinced, though. It's the struggles people - our brothers and sisters in Christ - have had with it. Some people do come out of it. For some it is most definitely a choice. For others I honestly don't know. If it's a choice, it's sure got a strong hold on them.
=) Ultimately, yay for love in Christ. It binds some weird people together, eh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:55 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:35 am
Anything contrary to the will of God is sin. Anything that pulls you away from God is sin. Don't ask whether or not a Christian can do something and just follow the two greatest commandments: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all of your soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:14 pm
Macinacs for seths Berezi Macinacs for seths I have to agree, there is a difference between the actions and the orientation. However, the one thing i know for sure is that I will be judged the same as every other christian. I repent for all of my sins, this includes sexual sins. I will not say that ive been perfect. Ive made mistakes. But one thing is for sure, God has blessed me. He has brought people, gay straight and others, into my life. They have realized that faith with me is my biggest thing. One mistake i will never make agian is sex before convenant. I being homosexual can not legal enter into marriage in most areas of the world. However, that does not mean i can not have a covenant between my God and the one he has planned for me, even if its a man. God made me to be attracted to men, hense it was God's Plan for me. And when i make that covenant with God, I shall have none other than the one that covenant is with. I shall not commit adultry, nor idolitry, nor theft, nor murder. I shall follow what God has commanded me to do, even with my sexual orientation because it is Gods plan, and his plan overrides any verse in the great book! So sayeth the lord, AMEN! I honestly have a lot of respect for that. But don't think that God won't ask you to resist some of the things that you were born with. We are all born sinners. Since we were born with it, it must be God's plan, right? Obviously not. If there is something in your life that scripture calls out as a sin, it must go. If acting on certain desires is sinful, then the actions must go. Will you be cast out of God's grace if they don't? I don't think so. Does that mean it shouldn't be an issue for you? No. But believe me when I say I have respect for your attitude about your sexuality. I just wonder about your logic. Dear Dear Berezi, its not logic that told me to say that...it was God. Heres the thing, I believe that the Lord almighty has talked to me, just like he talks to all who believe. Because I have struggled with it for many years, I like the good christian I am, turned to God and said Lord, if it should be guide me know. Give me the knowledge I need. When God talks I do listen. When I asked him if i was suppose to be the way I am, he told me yes. When i asked him to take these feelings way, he told me i have a plan for you my child. Thats why even thought most will say that I havent heard Gods voice, I say I have, and He has commandth me so. If in the future he tells me to change, it will be by him that i am no more of a homosexual as others are. But until that call. I shall be what he has instructed me to be. Macinacs for seths, that was well put. Bravo. I want to encorage you to continue to listen to the Lord and follow His plan. I, myself, am straight. I have nothing agaist homosexuals, though. I think that we need to treat them like the people they are. Homosexuality is not a sin in itself. The action that can come from it is. All of Smurfetee's verses said that if you lie man/man, women/women, you are sinning. As long as you keep your thoughts and actions pure, youre ok. Iff you do mess up, you have to ask the Lord for forgiveness. This is a topic I have been struggling with lately because I am moving to an area with a lot of homosexuals. I need to know how to wittness to them and what the Lord can do for them. I think it is important that we dont look down on homosexuals. The word 'gay' seems to have come across three meanings: happy, homosexual, and stupid. People saying that something is 'gay' bothers me because I dont think 'stupid' should be a meaning of the word because of where I feel like that originated. Another thing: The Lord will go by the rules he has set for Himself. Those rules are in the Bible and are the laws of nature. I doubt the Lord will ask you to marry someone of the same gender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:19 pm
ok i believe that god loves us all but being gay is a sin not that he doesnt love gay people but i really do not believe that there is such a thing as a true gay christian because if they arent obeying him they obviously are not following him. because he made men and women to be together if he wanted there to be gay people he would have created 2 men or 2 women.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:30 pm
I don't believe that they have Gay Christians being gay goes against Gods way for us as Human beings to live and being Gay goes against his plan for us and that if you are Gay you should at LEAST try and turn Straight and not just try to justify being Gay and still being a Christian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:40 pm
theskyiscrying ok i believe that god loves us all but being gay is a sin not that he doesnt love gay people but i really do not believe that there is such a thing as a true gay christian because if they arent obeying him they obviously are not following him. because he made men and women to be together if he wanted there to be gay people he would have created 2 men or 2 women. Does the Bible ever say it is bad to be attracted to someone of the same gender? No! It says it is bad to have sex with them! I think that people tend to assume that if youre homosexual, you have had sex with someone of the same gender. NOT NESSISARILY. Homosexuals are humans just like us, the only difference is that they are attracted to their own gender. Children cannot control their surroundings and cannot control the fact that they are influenced a lot by the people theyre around, the things their parents listen to, and where their parents take them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:45 pm
kitoko minh theskyiscrying ok i believe that god loves us all but being gay is a sin not that he doesnt love gay people but i really do not believe that there is such a thing as a true gay christian because if they arent obeying him they obviously are not following him. because he made men and women to be together if he wanted there to be gay people he would have created 2 men or 2 women. Does the Bible ever say it is bad to be attracted to someone of the same gender? No! It says it is bad to have sex with them! I think that people tend to assume that if youre homosexual, you have had sex with someone of the same gender. NOT NESSISARILY. Homosexuals are humans just like us, the only difference is that they are attracted to their own gender. Children cannot control their surroundings and cannot control the fact that they are influenced a lot by the people theyre around, the things their parents listen to, and where their parents take them. yes i but even though i notice the fact that homosexuals are human beings . i still believe that why would god make two genders if he wanted them to be together. and not to be nasty but men and women are (made)for each other
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:55 pm
GAYS were not created by GOD!.....only MALE and FEMALES are......
im sorry, but that's true, my father is a pastor, and I asked this a number of times....
ONLY two genders were created by GOD, anything outside that is created by the wide awareness of this world, but i dont think, Gays can be gays forever...
you'll change....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:16 am
kitoko minh Does the Bible ever say it is bad to be attracted to someone of the same gender? No! It says it is bad to have sex with them! Really! Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Maybe you are still not convinced. So you still want to say it is the act, not the desire, that is a sin. Matthew 5:21-22 & 27-28 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder (action), ... But I tell you that anyone who is angry (desire) with his brother will be subject to judgment... "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'(action) But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully(desire) has already committed adultery with her in his heart. is sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex. So there it is, Homosexuality is a sin. Period. End Quotes. Now what, You (anyone struggling) are still feeling these urges that you know are sinful and they aren't going away. First, lay your sins down at the cross, pray for forgiveness and repent from your sins. It will not be an "light switch" (instantly on or off) experience, you will fight with your sins for as long as God wills it, but we do not fight for victory over the sin but in obedience to God's commandments. If you Love God, your desire it to obey, not find loopholes so you can hold on to your sins but still be a "good person." (this desire is also not "light switch", you will need to work on it and grow in it.) It will not be easy, a battle maybe won, but the campaign is still going, your sins will try to come back and hurt you again, but all you can do is keep fighting it with the strength of the the Holy Spirit given to all who believe. That paragraph above is not limited to Homosexuality, or just sexual sins, but all sins. Put your sin in there, Mine is Lust, I am constantly having to resist letting my eyes and mind wander. I am not perfect, I have crashed and burned several times in the past year alone. I am not saying this just to say that I am a sinner like you, but that I hold myself to the same standard that I am asking you to hold yourself to. As I fight my lust, you fight yours. In fact, I want you all to fight it harder then I have. It also helps to have someone to be accountable to, someone to watch your back and help you when you are struggling. To answer the subject, Is there such thing as a Gay Christian? Yes, homosexual in your old self, Christian in the new self. Ephesian 4:22-24 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. God Bless
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
