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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:32 am
Emoti Blood`Eternity -It is an important part of your diet and although to much of it can be unhealthy without it your body becomes weak and you dont get the right nutrients. -Taking protein pills does not adequately substitute meat. -Humans were created to eat both meats and vegetables, so I take this into account and eat both evenly. -It is easier to achieve a balanced diet if you eat a meat because meat generally contains a variety of vitamins, protiens. -Without meat your body may become weak. But thats assuming you don't have a healthy and diverse diet. -If you are able to eat a variety of vegetables, fruit and non roasted/salted nuts you can maintain a perfectly healthy diet, no pills needed. -An isolated society in China maintains the highest life expectancy simply by eating raw vegetables. -If by created you mean by God then i have no arguement. But if you mean we have evolved from eating a variety of both and are capable of doing as such please tell smile Yes but the question isnt can you maintain a 'healthy' diet it is, do you.
I havent met a vegatarian in real life who doesnt take some form of pills or nutritonally enhanced food. As for the isolated society, is it proven that it is the fact that they eat vegetables that is what maintains their high life expectancy, or is it because they have little to no cars, little to no death rate, a well maintained order of work, and less smokers. People blame meat on western societies death tolls when it truly can be blamed on anything from cars to cigarettes to mcdonalds over-processed foods. It isnt meat that makes Americans morbidelly obese it is processed foods and the average Americans lack of caution in how much and what they are eating, the result is over-consumption or consumption of the wrong types of foods, for instance many Americans suffer because of over-consumption of carbohydrates. Another problem with Americans is that we or they dont do jobs that are physically excerising only mentally, so they use less calories but they dont even this out with extra curricular activities which causes them to become obese or unhealthy.
The exact reasoning as to why humans, especially Americans are obese is is not adequately determined, sure there has been finger pointing but the squabbling is no more accurate than the blaming democrats and republicans do on a regular basis.
[note, most of this was not in responce to the quote above, I just happen to be to lazy to re-quote each point I speak of].
As for a change to only eating vegetables, your example is a possibility but this still doesnt support the average Vegetarians goal, in the end we will have to slaughter thousands if not a million animals in order to shut down all the factories on the planet; another problem is what will happen to the people who work in those factories; you say, "oh well they can just grow vegetables", but two entirely different people grow and pick vegetables than the people who slaughter and pack animals, it is an extreme misconception that mexicans work at slaughter houses, I personally have been to many slaughter houses and my dad worked at one for nearly 10 years and he never worked with a single mexican and I haven ever seen a mexican working on a slaughter house. On the other hand mexicans do regularly do vegetable or fruit picking [especially in california]. Not only would the diet change be a dissapointment and impossibility to humanity but it will also be an economical problem, possible to do but difficult and stunting none the less.
As for a superior race landing on earth, all creatures make peace and fight, do you not think that mammals kill other mammals when they get in their way or when the animal has to eat? Of course they do, a meat eater will eat its meat, it wont cry about it afterwords either. Tigers naturally eat meat, and so do humans which is why we have teeth that are built to eat both MEAT and VEGETABLES that implies that we were meant to eat both meat and vegetables kind of like a car needing both gas and oil to run. If a superior race landed on earth we would try to make peace with them or perhaps we would try to destroy them with numbers, the failure or success of our chosen venture is our fate and whatever it is I accept that fate because I am no p***y.
In smaller terms, if a guy stole my food and I had to kick his a** to get my food back then I would, now if I lost that fight then I failed and I would have to go somewhere else to get my food or I would die; but what if ever guy stole my food so I just kept rolling over for them? I would eventually die because in the end everyone else would have the food and I wouldnt, it is about survival that is why people eat what they eat.
Which is why I dont understand why vegetarians hate meat eaters so much, I mean its the vegetarians and vegens who are going against the norm and most meat-eaters [implying both meat and vegetable eaters] dont really care, but we do care when a vegetarian kid gets up in our faces and calls us the devil because we had a salmon last night or a steak or maybe even just a glass of milk.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:20 am
[XxGuardianDevilxX] ignorance is bliss or not im gonna join you with this one im one two recnetly became one because i just didn't like the thought of eating a dead animal ive been planing to become one for years and have started down the road to no animal consumption besides after i saw a pig get its head saw...uh never mind i need not get into that. Imagine how many flies there would be in the world if spider's didn't eat them. Hope you can use that example to translate into humans eating animals. It's a cycle. We eat animals and plants. When we die we basically dissolve into the earth over time. We take from the earth while we're alive, and give back to the earth when we're dead. im not stopping them i just dont want to eat animals any more.
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ignorance is bliss or not
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:37 am
Hm. How strange.
Yeah, there's a cycle. But, do spiders have ANY other source of food and nutrition? No? Right.
Plants don't have brains, plants don't have an IQ, plants don't feel. Nature dictates everything that occurs within a plant. There aren't nerve endings being sliced off like what happens to chickens before they're sent to slaughter.
Since when was it nature for humans to breed cows and then chain the babies to poles in a farm for veal, to make sure they don't walk so the meat is tender? Yeah, nature intended humans just for that purpose.
And this "healthy/balanced diet" crap?
The only worthwhile thing about meat is protein, and eating meat has strong positive correlation to colon cancer and heart disease, while other meatless products (Boca, etc.) has less fat, is healthier, and, in most cases, either tastes the same or even better than the original product.
"Meat isn't what causes obesity"? You've got to be kidding me. The entire reason the meat industry flourishes is because it can be made quickly and is easy to serve at a quicker pace than a lot of anything else. Fast food flourishes on burgers, not salads.
Did I mention the added in hormones that are affecting growth rate, aging, etc. as well?
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:37 am
Love Is Destructive Hm. How strange. Yeah, there's a cycle. But, do spiders have ANY other source of food and nutrition? No? Right. Plants don't have brains, plants don't have an IQ, plants don't feel. Nature dictates everything that occurs within a plant. There aren't nerve endings being sliced off like what happens to chickens before they're sent to slaughter. Since when was it nature for humans to breed cows and then chain the babies to poles in a farm for veal, to make sure they don't walk so the meat is tender? Yeah, nature intended humans just for that purpose. And this "healthy/balanced diet" crap? The only worthwhile thing about meat is protein, and eating meat has strong positive correlation to colon cancer and heart disease, while other meatless products (Boca, etc.) has less fat, is healthier, and, in most cases, either tastes the same or even better than the original product. "Meat isn't what causes obesity"? You've got to be kidding me. The entire reason the meat industry flourishes is because it can be made quickly and is easy to serve at a quicker pace than a lot of anything else. Fast food flourishes on burgers, not salads. Did I mention the added in hormones that are affecting growth rate, aging, etc. as well? Ok yeah plants do feel unfortuantly because they are living thing (well thats what my biology teacher told me anyway) but u are right about them obviously not having brains too so i suppose is they did feel any pain they wouldn't actually feel it because well they have no brain! sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:52 am
Oh and I agree partly with vegatiarians but i just cannot seem to pull myself away from meat!!! crying Plus I am allready on a spetial diet so if i was to turn vegatiarian I wouldn't have anything to eat sad
Also I think that, well, when u think about it we weren't meant to start drinking milk either. Ok yeah it is healthy for us but there are more healthier alturnatives out there with less fat like soya or rice milk ( i personaly don't like soya very much but i do add milkshake to it and it tasts lovely, it has added vitamins with no added lactose). The main problem in milk is probably the lactose, i'm not certain but the milk we drank when we were babies had lactose in (which is a natural sugar) but then we were originally meant to start drinking water like other mammals.
And one last thing is what the farmers feed cows and goats probably makes the milk unhealthy and we do not really know what is in the milk after what the farmers may possibly feed them to obviously get them to produce more milk! confused
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:34 pm
Blood`Eternity I havent met a vegatarian in real life who doesnt take some form of pills or nutritonally enhanced food I only know a couple out of the many vegetarians that take supplement pills. Your experiences and mine aren't enough to make that a fact though, and also these days its very hard to find things that aren't nutritonally enhanced for example almost all milk and soymilk will be enhanced. Even the tap water i drink is. Blood`Eternity is it proven that it is the fact that they eat vegetables that is what maintains their high life expectancy Yes it is, taking into account that they do not have modern conveniences, yes they don't smoke, they are affect by car fumes (not as much as one that lives in the city) But the fact that several of them have reached the age of 113, and near abouts is suprising. Its on the mere numbers of very old people they have that makes it amazing. So it doesn't matter if they have low infant deaths to skew their deathrate etc. If anyone knows the name given to this community can you please PM me? Blood`Eternity in the end we will have to slaughter thousands if not a million animals in order to shut down all the factories on the planet I don't see your argument here, i said a gradual change, which in some countries is a reality. Its never going to happen within the life expectancy of any farm animal. Where will all the unemployed people go? I don't know get where do other unemployed people go, If it happens gradually which is the only way it will happen the main thing that will occur is young people not see it profitable or worthwhile to go into the meat business. Blood`Eternity As for a superior race landing on earth You missed the point completely we have a choice of whether or not to eat meat, other animals don't, not even the dolphin has the capacity to reason that. We are not only the product of evolution, we are also the products of human progression, we have much more knowlege and understanding than our ancestors. They probably wouldn't want to steal mine because I'm vegan rofl If they did I have the option of lacing it a lot of laxatives. Blood`Eternity I dont understand why vegetarians hate meat eaters so much I don't hate meat eaters, I never implied that, most of my friends aren't vegetarian, even my girl friend isn't, I think you will find that there are some vegetarians that hold resentment against people who eat meat, but you will find that there are far more people who eat meat who harbour resentment against people who eat meat. Think about it, the main reason we are vegetarians is because we are compasionate. Blood`Eternity vegetarian kid gets up in our faces and calls us the devil In no way should being vegetarian be associated with Chritianity. I will not call you the Devil that is the evangelists job.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:44 pm
Unibini Ok yeah plants do feel unfortuantly because they are living thing (well thats what my biology teacher told me anyway) but u are right about them obviously not having brains too so i suppose is they did feel any pain they wouldn't actually feel it because well they have no brain! sweatdrop Perhaps you misunderstood your boilogy teacher. Plants can feel to a very limited sense via trophisms and what not. Simply put they have not evolved a nervous system to feel pain, and they have about as much selfawareness as a bacterium. They are like a computer program that responds to input.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:02 pm
[XxGuardianDevilxX] I don't support any extreme ends of anything. The two extreme ends here are : All-Meat and All-Veggies. I'll stay in the middle (balanced diet). Why you should call me: MIDDLE-MAN mrgreen . Your perception of the situation is subjective. I would say supporting the killing and intense suffering of many sentient beings in order to enjoy your meal is a bit extreme. mrgreen
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:15 pm
I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for four and a half years. However, since September, I had to put fish back into my diet. Why? Because fish oils are the only food source which have an abundance of omega-3 fatty acids, which are an essential part of life. You can get it from soy, however, you have to eat very large portions in order to obtain a nourishable amount.
I personally didn't become a vegetarian for reasons that most do. I did it for the environment. I was against how land had to be cleared in order to graze livestock. I'm a tree-hugger, and damn proud of it. Now, before you say that the same process needs to happen with agriculture, here's where I played a different role. Instead of buying vegetables from groceries, I actually grow all of my vegetables in a small greenhouse behind my house. It's also heated during the winter months, so I can always grow them. Waterlines are below the freezing line, so the pipes never freeze. Because of this, it makes me feel as though I'm doing my share in preventing land to be cleared for agriculture. Although I still have to buy pastas, oats, etc, atleast I'm putting vegetable farming aside.
Also, for the vegetarians who fight for animal rights, if you have the time and resources, begin growing your own vegetable gardens. Even if it's only for the summer. Take into consideration of how many rodents/field animals are killed in order to grow the vegetable fields your groceries purchase their goods from. sad We could save a lot of their lives if we were to grow our own. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:41 pm
S y e t k a begin growing your own vegetable gardens Great idea, as soon as i buy a house. In the flat im currently living in we don't have enough space for a clothes line let alone a vege garden. crying
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:43 pm
Emoti Blood`Eternity I havent met a vegatarian in real life who doesnt take some form of pills or nutritonally enhanced food I only know a couple out of the many vegetarians that take supplement pills. Your experiences and mine aren't enough to make that a fact though, and also these days its very hard to find things that aren't nutritonally enhanced for example almost all milk and soymilk will be enhanced. Even the tap water i drink is. Response: Your right, but based on my personally experiences it seems through a general statistical test of I could say 50 vegetarians and nearly all of them use pills or food enchancements that are ABOVE average, for instance I know many vegetarians who eat a fake Turkey on thanksgiving made entirely from tofu is it? I cant remember, tofu or soy I think biggrin
Blood`Eternity is it proven that it is the fact that they eat vegetables that is what maintains their high life expectancy Yes it is, taking into account that they do not have modern conveniences, yes they don't smoke, they are affect by car fumes (not as much as one that lives in the city) But the fact that several of them have reached the age of 113, and near abouts is suprising. Its on the mere numbers of very old people they have that makes it amazing. So it doesn't matter if they have low infant deaths to skew their deathrate etc. If anyone knows the name given to this community can you please PM me?
Response: I dont see how the information you provided me proves that eating vegetables is what maintains their high life expectancy, considering their sanctuary from almost every other danger that is caused in modern society. A man or woman can easily survive to 113 in the same environment while eating a proportionate amount of fruits, vegetables, and meats.
Blood`Eternity in the end we will have to slaughter thousands if not a million animals in order to shut down all the factories on the planet I don't see your argument here, i said a gradual change, which in some countries is a reality. Its never going to happen within the life expectancy of any farm animal. Where will all the unemployed people go? I don't know get where do other unemployed people go, If it happens gradually which is the only way it will happen the main thing that will occur is young people not see it profitable or worthwhile to go into the meat business.
Response: Well although that argument was rather pointless their is still the tiny problem that humans as a whole will never give up meat entirely, meat is a key part of many holidays in many countries and it has always been considered a delicacy, so unless we get a one world nation with a crazed vegan ruler who decides to inforce no meat eating laws then that will never happen anyways.
Blood`Eternity As for a superior race landing on earth You missed the point completely we have a choice of whether or not to eat meat, other animals don't, not even the dolphin has the capacity to reason that. We are not only the product of evolution, we are also the products of human progression, we have much more knowlege and understanding than our ancestors.
Response: Does us having the ability to comprehend what we are doing make a difference? Usually those who believe nobody should kill anything are those who are considered to be over-compassionate, the people who cry when trees get cut down or when someone mows their lawn, death and slaughter is a natural part of life for all beings no matter how intelligent or how stupid; just because we have the only intellectual minds on earth doesnt mean we are excused from the food chain and last I checked humans were at the top, you know what that means? It means we are able to kill anything below it and feed off those things.
Note, in doing this I do not mean wipe out, all things I say are meant to be done in moderation, otherwise we run the risks of killing off a species which is not a good thing for the planet.
They probably wouldn't want to steal mine because I'm vegan rofl If they did I have the option of lacing it a lot of laxatives.
Response: Dont we all? And if all men were vegans then all men would like your food, no?Blood`Eternity I dont understand why vegetarians hate meat eaters so much I don't hate meat eaters, I never implied that, most of my friends aren't vegetarian, even my girl friend isn't, I think you will find that there are some vegetarians that hold resentment against people who eat meat, but you will find that there are far more people who eat meat who harbour resentment against people who eat meat. Think about it, the main reason we are vegetarians is because we are compasionate.
Response: that quote was an indirect quote pointed at the general vegatarian and vegan community, I know a good amount of vegans and vegatarians dont hate meat eaters and choose not to eat meat for personal reasons.
Also as for you being compassionate, you may consider yourselves 'compassionate' but the general truth is your just whimpy, usually vegetarians are vegetarians because they were damaged when their minds were weak and they had been protected from things their entire lifes, so when your vegen friend told you to watch a video you cringed at it and said you were never eating meat again [this is not all vegens or vegatarians, just some]. Their is of course other vegans [vegetarians] who dont eat meat because they are obsessed with animals, usually these people like animals more than they like humans; I find that pathetic that a person could love another animal specie in comparison to their own species, but thats really not the point. The point is meat-eaters hate other meat-eaters because one of them ******** their sister or because ones not very nice, not because the other one hates people who eat meat. Some [extreme] cases of vegens and vegetarians hate meat eaters simply because they eat meat, and their have been cases when vegetarians go out and beat the crap out of and in some cases kill a meat-eater simply for eating meat.
Also note again, all that I say is circumstantial this is not directed at all vegetarians, I love vegetarians they are able to give up meat entirely and care about our environment, that is good. What I hate is extremists, whether extremist vegens or extremist republicans I dont like extremists no matter what matter it is in.
Blood`Eternity vegetarian kid gets up in our faces and calls us the devil In no way should being vegetarian be associated with Chritianity. I will not call you the Devil that is the evangelists job.
Response: Yes well the devil being just a term of us 'sinning' for eat meat, they consider us murderers simply because we kill an animal to eat the properties of it, the same way a lion would kill us to eat us or a vulture would eat us after we've died of dehydration.
Random comment:
The funniest thing I ever heard from a vegetarian was that he believed chickens had the same brain capacity as us and had intellectual thought and a language, we just couldnt understand it. I wonder why then can chickens survive for minutes and in rare cases even hours after their heads have been chopped off? razz They can survive off spinal cords alone, intellectual beings cannot do that.
Just a random thought, and the guy who said that was insane so dont worry about me trying to say your like this either; I just thought it'd be fun to mention.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:46 pm
S y e t k a I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for four and a half years. However, since September, I had to put fish back into my diet. Why? Because fish oils are the only food source which have an abundance of omega-3 fatty acids, which are an essential part of life. You can get it from soy, however, you have to eat very large portions in order to obtain a nourishable amount. I personally didn't become a vegetarian for reasons that most do. I did it for the environment. I was against how land had to be cleared in order to graze livestock. I'm a tree-hugger, and damn proud of it. Now, before you say that the same process needs to happen with agriculture, here's where I played a different role. Instead of buying vegetables from groceries, I actually grow all of my vegetables in a small greenhouse behind my house. It's also heated during the winter months, so I can always grow them. Waterlines are below the freezing line, so the pipes never freeze. Because of this, it makes me feel as though I'm doing my share in preventing land to be cleared for agriculture. Although I still have to buy pastas, oats, etc, atleast I'm putting vegetable farming aside. Also, for the vegetarians who fight for animal rights, if you have the time and resources, begin growing your own vegetable gardens. Even if it's only for the summer. Take into consideration of how many rodents/field animals are killed in order to grow the vegetable fields your groceries purchase their goods from. sad We could save a lot of their lives if we were to grow our own. 3nodding Thats cool, I once had a small garden in my backyard when I was younger; me and my friends grew some peas and they grew up the side of his fence and it literally ripped his fence to peices, those where some good peas I tell you biggrin not to mention they were as thick as our fingers and about twice as long. XD
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:25 pm
Blood`Eternity Response: Does us having the ability to comprehend what we are doing make a difference?* Usually those who believe nobody should kill anything are those who are considered to be over-compassionate, the people who cry when trees get cut down or when someone mows their lawn, death and slaughter is a natural part of life for all beings no matter how intelligent or how stupid; just because we have the only intellectual minds on earth doesnt mean we are excused from the food chain and last I checked humans were at the top, you know what that means?** It means we are able to kill anything below it and feed off those things. *yes, isn't it obvious? **It means we are acting like other animals, when we have the option not to. The "because its natural" argument doesn't cut it. Nature does not equal inherently good, so where is your point? Blood`Eternity Also as for you being compassionate, you may consider yourselves 'compassionate' but the general truth is your just whimpy, usually vegetarians are vegetarians because they were damaged when their minds were weak and they had been protected from things their entire lifes, so when your vegen friend told you to watch a video you cringed at it and said you were never eating meat again [this is not all vegens or vegatarians, just some]. Funny i didn't realise choosing not exploiting the weak and innocent was whimpy... I didn't know some of us were vegetarians becuase we were damaged when our minds were weak... Hmm, I think you are implying that having compassion for things that are different from us is a weakness. Blood`Eternity The point is meat-eaters hate other meat-eaters because one of them ******** their sister or because ones not very nice, not because the other one hates people who eat meat. Some [extreme] cases of vegens and vegetarians hate meat eaters simply because they eat meat, and their have been cases when vegetarians go out and beat the crap out of and in some cases kill a meat-eater simply for eating meat. I don't know where your getting all your information from. Being vegetarian, worse vegan is a huge social stigma. It is natural for you to feel threatened. Don't worry we don't bite, we're vegetarian. rofl
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:58 pm
I feel like I should post some facts.
Here are some famous vegetarians, I didn't even know till recently.
Albert Einstein
Charles Darwin
Issac Newton
Thomas Edison
Pythagoras
Fairly smart people IMO.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:58 pm
Emoti Blood`Eternity Response: Does us having the ability to comprehend what we are doing make a difference?* Usually those who believe nobody should kill anything are those who are considered to be over-compassionate, the people who cry when trees get cut down or when someone mows their lawn, death and slaughter is a natural part of life for all beings no matter how intelligent or how stupid; just because we have the only intellectual minds on earth doesnt mean we are excused from the food chain and last I checked humans were at the top, you know what that means?** It means we are able to kill anything below it and feed off those things. *yes, isn't it obvious? **It means we are acting like other animals, when we have the option not to. The "because its natural" argument doesn't cut it. Nature does not equal inherently good, so where is your point? No it isnt obvious, that would be like me telling a smart kid he has to sit in the corner and not learn for a month because all the other kids in class arent as smart as him. Actually nature does equal inherently good, nature is 'natural' and therefore is always right, it will always set straight the balance in the end, to go down the natural path is the right path whether there is another more 'righteous' or 'honorable' path the natural path is inherently the right one... We have the option but we are animals, the sooner humanity accepts that the better. Blood`Eternity Also as for you being compassionate, you may consider yourselves 'compassionate' but the general truth is your just whimpy, usually vegetarians are vegetarians because they were damaged when their minds were weak and they had been protected from things their entire lifes, so when your vegen friend told you to watch a video you cringed at it and said you were never eating meat again [this is not all vegens or vegatarians, just some]. Funny i didn't realise choosing not exploiting the weak and innocent was whimpy... I didn't know some of us were vegetarians becuase we were damaged when our minds were weak... Hmm, I think you are implying that having compassion for things that are different from us is a weakness. I hardly consider killing a bull or a bear to be exploiting the weak, humans used to be afraid of bears it took 10+ of us just to take one down, believe me when it comes to a human vs. larger mammals we are definitely the weaker one, its our brains that has kept our species alive not our muscles. You didnt know that? Havent you heard those kids scream "OMG I just saw a cow get its head chopped off and so now I am never eating meat again! How could humans be so cruel I cant believe it", they do the same thing if they see a guy get shot and die by a soldier, they go all aggro on the government that that soldier is a part of, but war is a natural part of humanity, its what we do, should it be prevented, hell yes, but is it wrong or evil? HELL NO.Blood`Eternity The point is meat-eaters hate other meat-eaters because one of them ******** their sister or because ones not very nice, not because the other one hates people who eat meat. Some [extreme] cases of vegens and vegetarians hate meat eaters simply because they eat meat, and their have been cases when vegetarians go out and beat the crap out of and in some cases kill a meat-eater simply for eating meat. I don't know where your getting all your information from. Being vegetarian, worse vegan is a huge social stigma. It is natural for you to feel threatened. Don't worry we don't bite, we're vegetarian. rofl As I said before I am not threatened by vegatarians, I have vegetarian friends. The same way I have homosexual friends, I even have a friend who is into beastality [and not over the internet, in real life I know him]. I dont care about vegetarians because I am the kind of guy who thinks people should do what they want to do, so long as in its whole it doesnt effect other people in a negative way. The only vegetarians I dont like are the extremist vegetarians who want to kill me because I eat meat three or four times a month, to me those people are mentally ill, but I believe anyone who would murder someone [note killing is much different from murder], for any reason let alone because that person enjoys eating meat, must have some kind of mental illness.
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