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Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:00 pm


Good idea. Wait 'till Halloween and you'll see.

By the way, no new lessons today. I've written tons in the past couple days, and if you've already mastered that, you are a language prodogy.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:36 pm


*prodigy

But yeah, i'd be surprised if anybody's dealt with all that already. Nice work, I'll save the important bits so I can look through them later... wink

DavidGemmell


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:27 pm


こんにちは!元気なの?

Irregular Verbs


I realized I did't explain anything about the regular verbs. THey are very commonly used, so I think I should. You will have to remember a few little differences about them, but they aren't hard to remember.

The two irregulars are する,do, and くる, come.

する
・Non-polite forms

する - (will) do
しない - won't/ dosen't do
した - did
しなかった - didnt

・Polite

します - (will) do
しました - won't/ dosen't do
しません - did
しませんでした- didn't


くる
・Non-Polite

くる - (will) come
こない - won't, dosen't come
きた - came
こなかった - didn't come

・Polite

きます - (will) come
きました - won't, dosen't come
きません - came
きませんでした - didn't come


As you can see, they're really not that irregular at all.

Thats it for today. Feeling lazy... How is everyone doing with all the conjugating that I gave you in the past couple days? Hard? Easy? Don't even know what a "conjugation" is?


どうでしたか。あなたはこれが分かったら、なぜ日本語のレッソンの所を読んでますか。
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:01 am


I've been pronouncing the a like in cat, not like in father... is that still right?

Chikiya


Dave

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:42 pm


Vajrabhairava
The two irregulars are する,do, and きる, come.

...

くる
・Non-Polite

くる - (will) come
こない - won't, dosen't come
きた - came
こなかった - didn't come

Typo ですか?

Also, I've glanced through all the new stuff, I just haven't quite gotten around to reading through them in depth and trying to make sentences, but I'm about to get to that, I think. 3nodding
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:01 pm


Dave
Vajrabhairava
The two irregulars are する,do, and きる, come.

...

くる
・Non-Polite

くる - (will) come
こない - won't, dosen't come
きた - came
こなかった - didn't come

Typo ですか?

Also, I've glanced through all the new stuff, I just haven't quite gotten around to reading through them in depth and trying to make sentences, but I'm about to get to that, I think. 3nodding


はい、typoですよ。教えてありがとう。

Be carefull about those darn irregulars everyone! I still make "kuru" into "kiru" without thinking about it all the time.

Vajrabhairava


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:05 pm


Chikiya
I've been pronouncing the a like it cat, not like in father... is that still right?


No. I'll be completely honest, that is wrong, you will sound silly, and people probably won't understand you.

father, not cat.

Remember not to reduce any vowles, as is the english tendancy to do. Pronounce every syllable, and make every sound clear.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:42 pm


る verbs:

僕は猫をみない。
あなたは僕の犬をたべた! gonk
木はこまなかった。

polite:

私は猫をみません。
あなたは私の犬をたべました!
木はこまませんでした。

Also, for the issue of whether or not to use kanji, I say keep 'em comin'! But maybe just introduce the kanji (with hiragana for the pronunciation, of course) when listing new vocabulary, and then for exercises, etc. write the words out in hiragana instead of using the kanji so it's easier for us (well, not all of us... I personally find kanji easier to read than hiragana, but that's because I'm already familiar with a lot of the characters from Chinese, so I'm probably the exception) to learn the new grammatical concepts and such without constantly having to refer back to the vocab list to remember what the kanji means or how it's pronounced. I can't speak for everyone else, though, so for all I know, other people might prefer the kanji like me.

Dave


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:03 pm


Dave
る verbs:

僕は猫をみない。
あなたは僕の犬をたべた! gonk
木はこまなかった。

polite:

私は猫をみません。
あなたは私の犬をたべました!
木はこまませんでした。

Also, for the issue of whether or not to use kanji, I say keep 'em comin'! But maybe just introduce the kanji (with hiragana for the pronunciation, of course) when listing new vocabulary, and then for exercises, etc. write the words out in hiragana instead of using the kanji so it's easier for us (well, not all of us... I personally find kanji easier to read than hiragana, but that's because I'm already familiar with a lot of the characters from Chinese, so I'm probably the exception) to learn the new grammatical concepts and such without constantly having to refer back to the vocab list to remember what the kanji means or how it's pronounced. I can't speak for everyone else, though, so for all I know, other people might prefer the kanji like me.



((老Dave,即使你已经知道的汉子很多,我也觉得读这的人没学过这样的言语,所以我不要汉子用得多。要是你们真的要我用,那么我可能给你们用,好吧。))

Allright then, I can do some more Kanji then. I haven't been using them much lately bacause I've just been explaining grammar and I don't want to add any extra confusion. But when the heavy grammar is through, I suppose I can include more kanji.

And how is everyone with me not writing the proninciation? Is it too obnoxious to try and read? It's sort of a convenience for me, because it takes that much longer to write it all out. And, It's got to be good reading practice for you. I don't see how you wouldn't learn if you are constantly forced to figure it out.


Dave, you are good except for on the lat one with こまる. Remember that it ends in "aru", not "eru or "iru", making It a ru verb. Even if the last syllable of the verb is ru, if its not eru or iru, it is still a u verb.

So, it should be:
木はこまらなかった。
and
木はこまりませんでした。

The others are good.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:17 pm


Particles

が、と、で、に


Particles are the little words of Japanese that show the relationship of a word in the sentence. There are many of them, and don't think that these are all of them. They always come after the word they are affecting.

These are not all of them, they are just some basic ones you should be familiar with.



This one may be a bit tough. It has a lot of cross over with は, and its very easy to mess them up. Japanese kids figure it out in about 2 years, but you and me will still make mitakes with it for years to come.

が is similar to は because they both are used to show what the subject of the sentence is, the thing that is being talked about. But, with some subtle differences.

・One of the most common ways が is used is in combination with は in the form, ’___は, ___が___です。’ In this case, が could be considered the "secondary topic" of the sentence, because now it is being used to comment on the thing already mentioned with は. I bet that dosent make much sense, but after a few examples you will understand.

あなた - you
髪 - かみ - hair
短い - みじかい - short

あなた、髪短いです。 - You're hair is short/ You have short hair.


像 - ぞう - elephant
鼻 - はな - nose
長い - ながい - long

、鼻長いです。 - The elephants nose is long/ the elephant has a long nose.


First the main subject is mentioned with は, and then the sort of less main subject is put with が, to give more information about the main subject. Now notice that the meaning of these sentences is a bit loose, but still conveying the same basic meaning. They could also be written as ’あなたのかみはみじかいです。 or ’ぞうのはなはながいです。’and still be correct. But the "___は, ___が" way is more natural in Japanese, and is used more often.


・Another use of が is to talk about something not yet mentioned. Example:

ひときました。ひとは、たべます。 - A person came. The person eats.

Because this person has not been mentioned before, が is used to show that it is new information. After this person has been mentioned though, はis used, because the person is old information that has already been mentioned.


・が is sometimes used in place of は to show emphasis. Imagine you are arguing with someone about who will go to the store. You finally get tired of the argument and say, "I'll do it".

私 - わたし - I
行く - いく - go

私は行きます。 - I'll go. ("I" being emphasized.)

If は was used, it would just mean "I go" with no extra shades of meaning.


That's not all of the uses, but most of them.




と basically means "and". But also can mean "with". If you think about it, its not that hard to figure out why that would be.

As "and"

猫 - ねこ - cat
犬 - いぬ - dog
人 - ひと - person
食べた - たべた - ate

私は猫人を食べた。 - I ate a cat, a dog, and a person. (Maybe said by some sort of monster?)

In english we don't put "and" till the end of the list, but in Japanese you should put it between all the words in the list.


・As "with"

私はあなた行く。 - I will go with you.

Just put と after the thing doing whatever "with" the subject.




・One use of で is to show where something is done. IN this case, it loosley corresponds to the english "in" or "at". Example:

公園 - こうえん - park
歩く - あるく - walk

公園歩く - (I) walk in the park.

図書館 - としょかん - library
本 - ほん - book
読む - よむ - read

僕は図書館本を読みます。 - I will read a book at the library.

・Also, it is used to show what is used to do an action. Example:

えんぴつ - pencil
書く - かく - write

えんぴつ書いた。- (I) wrote with a pencil.

晩ご飯 - ばんごはん - dinner
フォーク - fork
食べる - たべる - eat

フォークで晩ご飯を食べませんでした。 - I didn't eat dinner with a fork.




に is used as for the english "to", to show the inderect object of a sentence, ansd other things.


As "to"

私は公園行った。 - I went to the park.
図書館来ました。 - I came to the library.


Inderect Object

This is something inderectly affected by an action.

私 - わたし - I
手紙 - てがみ - letter
書く - かく - write
お母さん - おかあさん - mother

私はお母さん手紙を書きました。 - I wrote a letter to mother.

The thing the verb is being done to is the letter, so it takes を. Then, the mother is being secondarily affected by writing the letter because she gets it, and the action is in a sense being done "to" her, so mother gets the に.

That example isn't too bad, but its not always quite as obvious.

黒板 - こくばん - blackboard
答え - こたえ - answer
学生 - がくせい - student

学生は黒板答えを書いた。 - The student wrote the answer on the blackboard.

The student actually writes the answer, but the blackboard gets it written "on" it.


~



Thats it for now. All of those have more uses, but those are the most common. The japanese particles have a lot of overlap with littl english words like "to", "in", "on", "at", but they rarely correspond perfectly, and you have no choice but to try and remember when a certain partice means which one of the corresponding english word.


About 行く - いく - go

I forgot to include this with the other irregular verbs. Its not really irregular, just wiht one little difference from normal.

Normally, to change a verb ending with く into the non-polite past form, you change the く to いた. But for 行く, it turns to った in this case.

So use 行った biggrin , not 行いた crying .


終わり。

Vajrabhairava


Chikiya

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:39 pm


Vajrabhairava
Chikiya
I've been pronouncing the a like it cat, not like in father... is that still right?


No. I'll be completely honest, that is wrong, you will sound silly, and people probably won't understand you.

father, not cat.

Remember not to reduce any vowles, as is the english tendancy to do. Pronounce every syllable, and make every sound clear.
Okay, but I'm still confused, because that's the way they pronounced it on my tape. Should I go with what you're saying or with the tape?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:51 pm


Really? What sort of tape do you have? I've never heard Japanese pronounced like that. Maybe its just that I cant describe it well enough.

Here:
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/aiueo.wav

Some person saying a,i,u,e,o. That first sound is the "a" you should be using.

Vajrabhairava


Chikiya

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:56 am


Vajrabhairava
Really? What sort of tape do you have? I've never heard Japanese pronounced like that. Maybe its just that I cant describe it well enough.

Here:
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/aiueo.wav

Some person saying a,i,u,e,o. That first sound is the "a" you should be using.
Maybe you just have a different way of saying 'father' and 'cat' to me, because that does actually sound like the way I've been pronouncing it. 3nodding Thanks for the link smile
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:21 pm


i really love this whole fourm I learned a whole buch, before i couldnt see the characters but i read everything so i guess i have to go through it again lol

XxMichiko MalandroxX

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Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:54 pm


How many people are there out there that can't see the Japanese characters? If it's too many, I can go back to writing it out in english.


Sorry everyone, I'll be out of town for the next week or so. I don't know how much I'll be able to post, so I'll try to make up for it when I get back.

Here's a good site to go to: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/

Basically makes me obsolete. crying
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