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| Who stronger and how! |
| Brolly |
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42% |
[ 6 ] |
| Kid Buu |
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42% |
[ 6 ] |
| Thats a hard one I dont know. |
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14% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:29 am
@Veg, Diet, and anyone else=P :
I mean, whne ur absorbed ur inside the other person, in buus case.
Could Broly just start blasting $#!t?
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:46 am
rikeen90 @Veg, Diet, and anyone else=P : I mean, whne ur absorbed ur inside the other person, in buus case. Could Broly just start blasting $#!t? Not exactly. When Buu absorbs someone, they are encased in a cocoon inside his body. The only reason why that didn't happen to Vegeto is because he created a ki shield the moment before he was absorbed. As for Broly using a ki shield to do the same, it's highly unlikely. He's only used it when traveling in space. Not once has he done it in battle, which leads me to believe that he would not attempt such a thing inside of Buu. And I still strongly believe that Kid Buu would attempt absorption. If you look to Kaioshin's story one page back, he stated that Kid Buu killed North and West Kaioshin, but specifically decided to absorb the strongest one, being South Kaioshin. That goes to show how he absorbs those who are the strongest, or those who pose the most threat to him. Therefore, I don't see why he wouldn't absorb Broly, seeing as he most definitely would give him some trouble.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:43 pm
First of all, this is all based on assumption, on both parts.
1. Assuming that he wont make a ki shield
2. Assumng he will use the absorption, or recognize Broly as a large enough threat
I will give Buu a +1/10 chance
We have not discussed other aspects of the fight.
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:10 pm
The Fierce Deity @Rikeen: ...wait, what? o 0;;
@Veggie: Likely, but not impossible, yesh... =O ...though Deity doesn't believe such a massive type of attack would be necessary (he speaks of the Genki-Dama) to kill Buu...uhh....probably the Genki-Dama, if it actually exploded, which would require pressure equal or near its own power in order to do. Since it didn't, Deity'll go with the explosion of a galaxy....more force = more mayhem = more ouchies.
@Kamikaze: Oh, no no...you got Deity wrong. The only major Buu that Son is stronger than is Super/Fat Buu...once he started absorbing people, Son became weaker in comparison. Even then, he was able to combat the even stronger Chibi Buu without being obliterated.
Here is what Deity believes in ranges of power; his theoretical power level list somewhere in Write-Ups is more detailed if you care to look.
He's not counting base form Saiya-jin powers...they suck immensely...
-Weakest-
SSJ Gotenks
SSJ 2 Gohan
SSJ 2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ 2 Son
Fat Buu/Super Buu
SSJ 3 Gotenks
Mystic Gohan
SSJ 3 Son
Gotenks Buu
Mystic Gohan Buu
Chibi Buu
Super Vegetto
-Strongest-
An unfortunate misconception is that all SSJ levels are equal...for instance, saying that two SSJ 2's are equal, and two SSJ's are equal. That's inaccurate...since Son was much, much stronger than both Trunks and Goten, when they fused, they naturally weren't as strong as his SSJ 3. Gohan was greater than Gotenks simply because he'd reached a level of his own...one must remember that Gohan never reached SSJ 3, so that energy wouldn't be included with that of his SSJ and SSJ 2 power. Had he become an SSJ 3 beforehand, he would've been able t'whomp Son and Buu, and their moms.
...a good reason that Deity concludes Son as being stronger than both Gotenks and Gohan at their strongest (not combined, mind you) is simply that he does fare better against an opponent stronger than what they could handle. Both Gohan and Gotenks could have easily finished off Super Buu had they just done it...but, both being young and (relative) amateurs, they were unable to. Son is no amateur, though he didn't take into account the loss of energy in SSJ 3 while using a living body.
Though Son was weaker, both he and Vegeta knew that he would have been able to completely decimate Chibi Buu had he the time needed to gather energy into one, final attack. By no means would the strength of that attack match that of the Genki-Dama he used...that was a last-ditch effort, and basically the only thing they could do anymore in th'first place. That's further evidence that the bomb was complete overkill. Gotenks Buu was stronger than Chibi Buu.
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:21 pm
^Um, evidence would be nice. I am of the same opinion but still...
@Deity-I was always under the impression that SSJ3 Goku was stronger than Chibi Buu. He was pounding on him quite a bit and took several blows without to much trouble. And he would have killed him multipuk times if it hadn't been for his healing factor. Of course, every form of Buu would have died multipul times if it wasn't for the healing factor...
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:46 pm
@Phoenix: [/opinion] Evidence would be nice....if Chibi Buu was weaker, why would anyone have thrown a fit, especially Kaiobit? Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to be relieved that he grew so much weaker? And, even though he had reverted to his normal Super Buu form, Son even mentions that Buu is getting stronger as he changes back into Chibi Buu. They never exactly specify how much stronger he gets...but still. Makes more sense, th'way Deity sees it.
@Kamikaze: Well, it's not like Deity is 100% certain or anything....but it'd only make sense to him that the more powerful of th'two would be Buu, not Son.
Cell and Gohan, at the very end of their fight, were pretty much exactly even; if Cell wasn't actually stronger. Gohan only won because he pushed the rest of his power in before Cell did, who was distracted by Vegeta. Against an equal opponent, Cell was completely destroyed by a somewhat more powerful attack, similarly to how Buu was by Son...
If they were even, wouldn't Son have had less of a problem? As a SSJ 3, he could've pulled off some monstrous Kamehameha and blown Buu away entirely. It's no mistake that Buu is - though very strong - hardly durable. His skin was penetrated by bullets, which didn't even hurt Piccolo Daimao.... xD Chibi Buu is torn apart numerous times in the fight, but quickly regenerates each time because he technically felt no pain from such weak attacks.* If Son were even with him, he should've been able t'blow Buu away in a shorter length of time; if he was stronger than Chibi Buu, it seriously would have been no problem at all.
Th'simple fact that everything they tried until coming up with the Genki-Dama idea failed makes Deity believe that Chibi Buu was not only the strongest Buu, but stronger than Son.
* - We know the Buus can feel pain, or at least be hurt...Mr. Buu looked (and remained) injured through much of his fight with his little alter ego, and Mystic Gohan Buu was bleeding and usually a walking bruise through his entire fight with Vegetto.
@Veggie: Actually, Brolly did use that sphere-bubble thingie to escape that pit of lava...that really doesn't justify his use of it against being absorbed, of course.
...and while the Southern Kaioshin was the strongest, he was still relatively weak when compared to Buu. After that, he also absorbed Dai Kaioshin, who was probably weaker, so....who knows what Buu's thinking.
@Rikeen: Even if Brolly was absorbed, and even if he used his ki shield to prevent actual absorption (he wouldn't)...still, no. He would not be able to defeat Buu this way...he is too small to do any type of damage, and would be better off escaping. Deity remains t'see why Chibi Buu would absorb someone he can have so much fun with...but if he tried it, he would win.
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:19 pm
I thought that Kabito /kai or whatever his name was was pissed off that Goku turned Buu back into Chibi Buu instead of just turning him back into the weaker Super Buu. Not sure what to say about Goku saying Buu was getting stronger...
Buu's regeneration is simply that insane. SSJ 2 Vageta seemed somewhere near Buu in power, and then he used his selfdestruct move which I would immagine is a lot more powerful than a kamehameha, and Buu came out just fine. Note that I'm not saying that SSJ3 Goku is way stronger than Chibi Buu, they were pretty close in power, but I'd have to say Goku wins it.
As for the Buus felling pain...Chibi Buu is a complete psychopath. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was massacistic(which I have no idea how to spell...) or at least insane to the point where he doen't notice his own pain.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:38 am
@ Deity: Broly using the sphere in lava is insignificant in this fight. Reason being that Darkpheonix stated that we are using Broly from Movie #8, seeing as he is stronger. If memory serves me, Broly using the ki sphere was in Movie #10 against teen Gohan.
And there is absolutely no proof that South Kaioshin was relatively weak compared to Buu. We never saw him fight. We only have Supreme Kaioshin's word that he was the strongest out of them all. The fact that Buu disregarded the first two weaker Kaioshin, and went to absorb the strongest is more significant than the fact that he absorbed Dai Kaioshin last. His reasoning for doing so is unfounded, thus it serves no purpose.
Also, Buu's state of mind is altered with each form, therefore he most definitely was thinking differently after his absorption of South Kaioshin, meaning that him absorbing Dai Kaioshin doesn't count for Kid Buu's way of thinking.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:58 pm
@Veggie: ...just because Brolly didn't do one of his moves in one of his two major fights really doesn't count for anything. He can still freaking do it... =P ...you said he couldn't, and he clearly can. That's all Deity was saying...he didn't say Brolly would use it, just that he could. xD There's pretty much no reason he'd do it unless he recognized that form of absorption...unlikely.
Dunno the exact wording (haven't read it recently), but Kaioshin (while the group is on their way to confront Babidi) states that Buu pretty much just killed everyone, in the classic "He's the supreme evil and can't be stopped" sort of way. No reason to believe that any of them stood a chance... . =; ...that said, Kaioshin himself seemed utterly shocked at how powerful the Saiya-jin were in comparison to himself...he'd never even seen such power before.
If Southern Kaioshin had had even a glimmer of hope, he'd have to be around at least SSJ 2-ish strength, in which case Kaioshin likely wouldn't have s**t himself. He'd have seen such power, and wouldn't have been surprised.
...very true on the disortion of thought, tho'. Hell, each Buu we actually see acts differently...Fat Buu seems to just want to play (by killing humans), Super Buu wants nothing but to be the strongest warrior, and Chibi Buu wants to destroy, hurt, and kill.
@Kamikaze: ...as far as Deity knows, neither Kaiobit nor Dai Kaioshin ever showed any actual anger toward either Vegeta (who was actually to blame, as always) or Son for Chibi Buu's appearance....Kaiobit simply remarked at how vicious Buu was in his original form.
Majin Vegeta was actually strong enough to do major damage to Buu...however, it wasn't th'same type of strength ratio of Chibi Buu to Mr. Buu. It wasn't so bad that Fat Buu couldn't regenerate, so while he kept his stamina via regeneration, Vegeta kept losing strength, and eventually got his a** kicked off.
As far as the self-destruction bomb...well, it was just that: an explosion. Cell survived his own self-destruction, and his regeneration abilities paled in comparison to Buu's. Attacks that take Buu out have a better chance of success if they're more compressed or concentrated...a wild explosion like that just blew Buu apart and scattered his pieces....if Vegeta could've delivered the same amount of power into a large ball-like attack, Buu'd have been toast.
...good point on Chibi Buu, tho'. xD Deity has a ******** RP character who, now that he thinks of it, is pretty much the b*****d child of Chibi Buu and the Hulk.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:24 pm
Right . . . did you stop to realize that movie #8 came before movie #10? In the first one, Broly never demonstrated the ki orb in battle. Only to survive in space. Movie #10 is the only time we see Broly make use of his ki orb in battle. And seeing as how we are using Broly from movie #8, he won't use the ki orb.
And Kid Buu absorbing South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin doesn't exactly count for him "killing" everyone. "Killing" refers to physically, with or without ki, beating them to death. He absorbed 2/4 of the Kaioshins he encountered. I don't think I need to post that scan again.
Also, Kaioshin being surprised at the Saiyans' power doesn't imply they were stronger than the original Kaioshins. It means that Kaioshin didn't think they wielded that much power, seeing as the original maximum of a Saiyan before Goku and the gang arrived on the scene was thought to be Super Saiyan. There is no comparison to other Kaioshin there. Not once did he say he hadn't seen such power before.
. . . Lastly, a Buu style absorption is often by surprise. And once it starts, the victim ain't getting out. Even Super Vegeto just had to go with the flow and get absorbed. Therefore, no matter how strong South Kaioshin was, he had no chance once the absorption started. From Kaioshin's words, Buu didn't screw around. He killed the first weaker two, then absorbed the strongest, on purpose. It wasn't a random choice. That goes to show how the strongest gets absorbed, and the weak get killed. Therefore, seeing as how Broly will put up a decent fight, and will be the only person around, an absorption is highly possible.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:36 pm
Just like to point out to SMV thst Vageto wanted to get absorbed. Not nessisarily saying that he could have escaped, just that he never tryed.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:31 pm
Kamikazek-Z Just like to point out to SMV thst Vageto wanted to get absorbed. Not nessisarily saying that he could have escaped, just that he never tryed. I don't think so. He wasn't planning to get absorbed. He just made use of the situation by quick thinking. Not planning ahead.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:45 pm
@Veggie: Incorrect again...Brolly could do it if he wished. =P Despite what you may believe, #8 Brolly and #10 Brolly are the same person. ninja He did it as a child, and did it in Movie #10 on a moments notice...that alone may in fact imply that it's an instinctual reaction to severe harm/death...which, if true, would make him impervious to absorption in the first place... o 0;; ...either way, no. Brolly could still do it, whether its involuntary or not.
You really needn't post any scans...use words instead. They work much better... =)
Deity was referring to not only what you said, but that they had indeed surpassed Kaioshin; they all surpassed him by a significant degree. Correct, tho', there was no comparison between them and th'Kaioshin of the past that were killed by Buu. ::nodnod:: So yeah, most of th'shock was just that they all had grown so powerful.
Edit: Though, if one wished to be a**l about it, they could argue that Gohan (weaker than Vegeta) was able to remove the Zed Sword from its place, when no other person could even lift it, much less remove it. Can't remember the timeline, tho'...if it was after Southern Kaioshin's time, nevermind. If it was from his time, however, then that alone proves he was rather weak.
If what your last statement...err, states...is true, Son would have been absorbed. Was he? No. Did Chibi Buu even try? No? What other fights have we seen Chibi Buu in? None. How many others have we heard of? Just one.
So, let's recap...out of two fights, he absorbed two relatively weak people, who happened t'be the strongest out of their piddley group. Considering Chibi Buu theoretically never got any stronger inbetween his fight with the Kaioshin and his fight with Son - who could easily whomp any Kaioshin, blindfolded - that frame of mind would have him absorbing Son; he never even attempted it. That theory has no grounds...there's no evidence to lean the chance of Brolly being absorbed toward likely or unlikely.
Edit: Uhh...Vegetto purposefully tore off Buu's head-tail-p***s-zapper-thing and tossed it away, knowing that it was Buu's one and only possible chance for victory. He otherwise wouldn't risk being absorbed in such a stupid fashion - he spends the entire time counting down from ten willing Buu to hurry up and try absorbing him. He wanted to get absorbed so he could get inside of Buu and rescue the others before killing him. That's why he started counting, was dragging out the fight, acting cocky, pissing Buu off, etc. As the sole possessor of the two most brilliant battle minds in the universe, Vegetto made that plan specifically so he kill Buu without in turn killing everyone he had absorbed....denying that is just plain ignorance.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:38 pm
*Has manga of the event in question in front of him* Vagetto even says(or thinks, to be pickey) "...Finally. Ithought he'sd never think of that" when he noices Buu is about to try sbsorbing him, and then "Now...is when we find out..." right before putting up his forcefield, probably trying to say "Now is when we find out if this works".
By the way, do you guys all know about how "Vegetto" got changed to "Vegerot" in the American manga? >_> One of the few cases where I think the anime made a better translation than the manga...
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:33 am
@ Deity: No, you have yet to show that Broly made a ki orb for battle purposes in movie #8. Until you show that, he won't do it. And incase you didn't realize, Broly was in his Legendary form in movie #8, and just Super Saiyan in movie #10. Big difference in thought patterns.
And the Z Sword timeline is never stated, therefore it's an unfounded claim both ways. Can't be used in a debate.
Also, since Kid Buu didn't try an absorption on Goku, that leaves us with a 50% chance of him attempting one against Broly. Even with that percentage, it royally screws over Broly.
Again, I don't know how many times I've said this, but you can't prove any Kaioshin other than the present time Kaioshin to be weaker than Goku. All Kaioshin stated was that he was the weakest out of the five, and South was the strongest. For all we know, that could be a gigantic gap in strength. Until you give evidence proving that Goku in fact could beat South Kaioshin, you have no claim.
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