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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:22 am
No I suppose we don't NEED them, but most people like them. As for the second commandment, we aren't worshiping the statues and we don't look to the statue as a god and I am sure that is what that is refering to.
Anything else Knotghlon?
Still researching Theo.
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:24 am
Amiruni No I suppose we don't NEED them, but most people like them. As for the second commandment, we aren't worshiping the statues and we don't look to the statue as a god and I am sure that is what that is refering to. Anything else Knotghlon? Still researching Theo. You pretty much answered my questions, thank you biggrin heart
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:28 am
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:49 pm
Thank you, Amiruni. I probably should have told you, I'm not a Protestant, nor am I a Catholic, though you already know that. Instead, I am without denomination. I am not, in any way, bound to or associated with a religious denomination. But, let's do this. Matthew 16:18, 19 This here has been identified as numbered below: Jesus Christ; His work of salvation by dying on the cross. Peter is the first great leader in the church in Jerusalem. The confession of faith that Peter gave and that all succeeding true believers would give. The "rock" most likely refers to Peter as the leader of the church for his function, not his character. Peter reminds us Christians that we are the church built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, whereas Jesus is the cornerstone (1 Peter 2:4-6). Some say the keys represent authority to carry out church discipline, administration, et cetera (Matthew 18:15-1 cool ; other say that they are keys to give authority to announce forgiveness of sins (John 20:23); and other say the keys may be the opportunity to bring people to the kingdom of God by preaching the message (Acts 15:7-9).
I think the owner of the site just wants to hide other passages. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 The owner of the site lacks information of the "extra-biblical" information. Instead, he goes to say that all of what he is saying can be found in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church." If so, I would wonder why he lacked the information. While John 21:25 says, "Jesus did many other things as well," and so forth, one would wonder where the Catholic church got the rest of what Jesus said. To counter "Isn't Paul adding something else to follow in addition to the Bible," I quote Proverbs 30:5, 6, which says, "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Tradition is not bad, as long as nothing is added to it, that is, if it is being passed down. Paul knew that the Thessalonians would come in contact with persecution, false teachings, worldliness, and so on, so that the Christians in Thessalonica may waver, and so this is why Paul warned the Thessalonians. Again, tradition is not bad, as long as nothing is added to it. 1 Peter 3:21Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?John 20:22-23Christ gave His disciples their Spirit-guided mission, which was to preach the Gospel about Jesus, so that people's sins might be forgiven. The disciples did not have the power to forgive sins, for even the Pharisees knew, when they asked, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Mark 2:7) John 6:53-58, 66-67The problem here is, is that we really cannot eat Christ's flesh, nor drink His blood, since His body is not here on earth. Nor is there any evidence that the bread we eat or wine we drink, actually becomes flesh and blood. In fact, if we are to take this literally, as the owner of the site so eagerly presumes, then we are being taught cannibalism. The funny thing is, is that according to Strong's, for the word phago, it can also be used metaphorically: 1) to eat 2) to eat (consume) a thing a) to take food, eat a meal b) metaph. to devour, consumeWhile it is true that the religious leaders were taking it literally, they would know that the idea of drinking blood, let alone human blood, was against the Levitical law (Leviticus 17:10, 11). It's kind of like when Jesus told His disciples to watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees. He wasn't speaking literally, though His disciples thought that He was talking about the bread that they took with them. If one is to take such things literally, I would wonder how much further they would take things to the point that they think that Christ is teaching self-mutilation in Matthew 5:29, 30. Funnily, Paul uses the body and blood as an imagery for communion in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. I wonder if on that night, the disciples actually ate from Christ's flesh and drank His blood also. 1 Corinthians 11:27Paul gave specific instructions: Take the Lord's Supper thoughtfully, because we are declaring that Christ died for our sins (11:26). Take it worthily (11:27). We should evaluate ourselves and see if we have any unconfessed sins (11:2 cool . We should be properly ready on our belief and love for Christ. We should be considerate of others (11:33). Wait until everyone eats in a unified and orderly manner.
This really has nothing to do with whether or not we are literally eating and drinking Christ's body and blood. If you look above, again, 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, Christ said that the bread was His body and the wine was His blood. If taken literally, that means cannibalism. James 5:14-15The person is saying that verse 15 means that the man will be saved. Not necessarily salvation. Let's look in the NIV, which says, "And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven." (emphasis mine) So the person will get well, not saved. And of course, people can pray for others and ask God to forgive others. This doesn't necessarily mean that the person himself can say to the other person, "Your sins are forgiven." For a better explanation, "The prayer offered in faith" does not refer to the sick person, but rather the person who is praying for the people. God heals, not faith. Colossians 1:24The person here sounds like he's saying that Christ's death was inadequate, that we must do our part to be saved. Paul does not mean that Christ's suffering was insufficient. Paul could be saying that suffering is unavoidable when bringing the Gospel of Christ to the world. When we suffer, we can endure it joyfully, because it changes lives and brings people to God's kingdom. James 2:24Easiest response here, since I've answered it before. While we are not saved by what we do, but by what God has done for us, the thing is is that if our faith is true, then it will result in good deeds.
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:49 am
Ok a lot to read.
I will talk about the eucharist since you have many misconceptions about it. We are taught just as Jesus probably meant at the Last Supper, that we are partake of his body and blood which he gave us. And when Catholics say they believe that the bread and wine actually become the flesh and blood of Christ, some mean it literally but it doesn't have to be. It can be seen as becoming the spiritual body and blood of Christ.
As for cannabalism, why do you think cannbals ate people. Some practiced it as a religion. That they could become more like the person by eating them, devoring them entirely.
This is thought that comes from Jesus's words, that by eating his body and blood that we become more like him, even if it his spiritual body and blood. That we are supposed to take him into ourselves in general with the same fervor that those people did.
Anything else about the Eurcharist?
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:30 pm
Amiruni I will talk about the eucharist since you have many misconceptions about it. We are taught just as Jesus probably meant at the Last Supper, that we are partake of his body and blood which he gave us. And when Catholics say they believe that the bread and wine actually become the flesh and blood of Christ, some mean it literally but it doesn't have to be. It can be seen as becoming the spiritual body and blood of Christ. I do not have any misconceptions. Those were reasonable, yet somewhat ironic (sarcastic) responses. I said that if we are to take it literally, then "I would wonder how much further they would take things to the point that they think that Christ is teaching self-mutilation in Matthew 5:29, 30." It showed the redundancy in the persons site that Christ wasn't actually telling them to actually eat from His flesh and drink His blood. Amiruni As for cannabalism, why do you think cannbals ate people. Some practiced it as a religion. That they could become more like the person by eating them, devoring them entirely. But Christ wasn't teaching cannibalism. Amiruni This is thought that comes from Jesus's words, that by eating his body and blood that we become more like him, even if it his spiritual body and blood. That we are supposed to take him into ourselves in general with the same fervor that those people did. I don't agree with the "You are what you eat" concept. We don't become more like Christ by what we do, in this case, taking the Communion (though we should not be idle Christians, and we should go and spread the Gospel to the world). I'm going to further explain John 6. The "flesh and blood" concept that was spoken of in 6:54 pointed to Christ as as the crucified one and the source of life. If we were to take such things in a literal sense, as the person at the site was suggesting, then it'd also be funny to believe that Jesus was really a bread. Amiruni Anything else about the Eurcharist? No.
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:33 pm
This thread has good information that guild members should probably read if they get the chance.
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:32 pm
Ok i want you to get something clear.. please dont conterdict the things we do... got it? if u dont listen i will report this post for making fun of catholics.......
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:48 am
punxroxmasocks Ok i want you to get something clear.. please dont conterdict the things we do... got it? if u dont listen i will report this post for making fun of catholics....... We have freedom of speech, and you have the freedom to not listen, or in this matter read. Catholics contredict themselves, and it is no joke that the (largest religion in the world) is pagan posing as Christian. (I'm speculating this, so please let me know if I'm wrong.)
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:59 am
so Kutsuke if we are pagan and contridict ourselves, then show me where you believe this to be the case and I will talk about. But it is summer and it will be a slow response because of vactions and such. But feel free to talk, this is what this thread is about.
punks...I am not offended, for me to fix prejudice there has to be some to fix.
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:24 pm
Theopneustos I'm asking for Scriptural basis. You wont find it for a lot of those things you asked for. Mary's sinlessness was never affirmed. There were teachings by early Church theologians like St. Augustine that God would have wanted a pure vessel for His son to be brought forth in. Catholics are big on tradition, so it stuck. Personally, I was surprised at the lack of basis for it when I began searching for it. However, I still believe her to be sinless and blessed. The Church's role in interpretation stems from Jewish traditions, I would think. There was a hierarchy for the Jews, wherein the learned Rabbis would explain and interpret the Scripture. Infant baptism is still an introductory rite. Really, I think it was allowed because of the tradition of circumcision being shot down by Paul. They wanted something to affirm that the lives these children were going to lead would be Christian. Also, the faster they cleanse original sin, the better. Like John the Baptist said, baptism by water is preparation for baptism by fire. It doesn't matter when you prepare for it. As for penance, I relate the story of the rich man coming to Jesus asking how to be saved. Jesus said to give away all his possessions. That's quite a sacrifice, which is what penance is supposed to be.
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:39 pm
Amiruni so Kutsuke if we are pagan and contridict ourselves, then show me where you believe this to be the case and I will talk about. But it is summer and it will be a slow response because of vactions and such. But feel free to talk, this is what this thread is about. punks...I am not offended, for me to fix prejudice there has to be some to fix. Many instances of pagan symbols and even satanic sybols appear throughout the vatican and the popes and bishops.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:02 am
where Kutsuke? You can't just make a general statement, how am I supposed to defend that. Where?
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:27 am
Kutsuke Amiruni so Kutsuke if we are pagan and contridict ourselves, then show me where you believe this to be the case and I will talk about. But it is summer and it will be a slow response because of vactions and such. But feel free to talk, this is what this thread is about. punks...I am not offended, for me to fix prejudice there has to be some to fix. Many instances of pagan symbols and even satanic sybols appear throughout the vatican and the popes and bishops. They use many Masonic symbols there, such as the obelisk in St. Peter's Square...It is also found in the U.S. , and *gasp* look at that! The place where God did not allow His people to stay! Egypt!
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:41 am
the obelisk is a structure shape NOT a mason object. The obelisk in Rome doesn't have mason symbols on them. In fact belonging to the catholic church and claiming to be a masonist, is contridictory and is considered to be a serious sin and something that warrents not receiving communion making it a mortal sin. The catholic church has nothing to do with masonic teachings or symbols, not true catholics anyway.
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