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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:24 pm
Kangaroo S.T.U. 4laugh I get to lynch you? XD no no I'm not going to do that. I see what you're saying. razz the thing about Andrew Dickman is that he's in the animation buisness. He's actually working on a short cartoon for Nickeloden. When it comes to animation, drawing all those pictures in succession can be teadious. So, when animating, the simpler the style the better. Not to mention, if the producers don't like the look, if it's too radical, they don't want it. They don't want to risk their money on something kids might not like. X3 although Vegex has a different style, Mr. Dickman is an animator and his style reflects the needs for animation. Vegex's style isn't completely original or radical either. On DA I'm sure I can find some that draw similar to that. As for the clothing, so far I think other users tend to not want to stray from the fantasy realm, so Vegex's attire is rather refreshing. Are you sure because Vegex draws anthro foxes/wolves more than andrew dickman, you're not being a tad bit bias. ;P
But, I think Vegex has skills, if not greater, definitely in that league. Or at least the potential.
Don’t get me wrong, Mr. Dickman is amazing. Truly so. So Are all the other artists I mentioned.
But, Perfection isn’t everything. Simplicity isn’t everything. Nor complexity, skill, consistency, originality or fame. Not even the actual object being focused on is that important.
Black background instead of white, white outlines instead of the black/grey indeed has been done. It’s not common though. Anthros, robots, cyborgs, monsters, dragons, demons, angels, adventures, satire, irony, everything ain’t original. Originality it’s self is dead.
All I need to see is someone striving to express themselves, their ideas. Very rarely will I ever insult anyones art. Imperfection can become a huge part of expression.
But, I’m off topic. I Just really like his art. The first One I saw wasn’t even anthro, and it drew me towards it. It has a style that I find pleasing. Sure, I was being a weee bit dramatic, but I really think this is incrediable art.
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:19 pm
surprised oooh I see so you prefer his art over andrew dickmans.
See I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion.
But instead, you were saying you prefer Vegex's art over Dickmans.
:3 preference and talent are two different things.
Sorry I misunderstood you.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:14 am
Kangaroo S.T.U. surprised oooh I see so you prefer his art over andrew dickmans. See I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion. But instead, you were saying you prefer Vegex's art over Dickmans. :3 preference and talent are two different things. Sorry I misunderstood you.
If you intended it, well, up yours, if not... We'll see.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:41 am
Eh? o.O;
The thing is, I'm not sure who the artist is, but it's some popular animator I think, did a lot of dogs or something. Anyway, this guy gets copied a LOT. So people think his work is not original, when in fact, it is, it's just everyone else copying him is not original. That must reaallly such. D:
I saw some really awesome characatures the other day too. Never seen anyone do them nearly as well as this guy.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:47 pm
Kurokitsume Kangaroo S.T.U. surprised oooh I see so you prefer his art over andrew dickmans. See I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion. But instead, you were saying you prefer Vegex's art over Dickmans. :3 preference and talent are two different things. Sorry I misunderstood you.
If you intended it, well, up yours, if not... We'll see.Seriously though, are you saying Vegex is better than andrew dickman? In what ways are these? They way I see it is: Dickman, as far as skill, is much much better than Vegex. Proportion is accurate and his characters stay on model. The style is well suited for animation for companies to mass produce for episodes. That is the purpose of his art, not to express in an abstract way how he is feeling deep inside, his artwork is meant to make simple memorable characters for a story for TV. This is what his goal is, and this is what he has accomplished. Vegex is not an animator. Their art is for themselves to express their feelings. Vegex has many surreal pictures up because they are supposed to be vauge and invoke feelings and emotions though abstractness. This is what Vegex wants to accomplish in their art and this is what they have done. Both artists set goals for themselves and they have done what they came to do. Dickman with his animation and Vegex with their surrealism. Both artists should be respected for their work and not compaired. If Dickman was a surreal artist or if Vegex was an animator, then skills can be compaired, but at this point it's purely preference. I prefer Dickman's art more than Vegex because I'm not one for surreal much. I don't understand Vegex's art so i can't fully appreciate what they've done. However, I've grown up studying cartoons and animation, so i can understand Dickman's work. I don't hate Vegex's work, and I don't think they're horrible, I just don't prefer that type of art. It's like listening to music. I don't prefer Country music, but I'm won't say Reebah Macentire (I apologize for butchering the spelling of her name) isn't a great singer. So basically what I'm saying is... neutral It's okay if one says they prefer one artist over the other, but to blatantly state that artist A is better than artist B when they aren't trying to achieve a common goal is not fair. It's like... compairing my trombone skills to a Barber cutting hair. Totally unrelated. Only thing that can be compared is how good we both are at at our respected jobs. We can't argue who's better on anything else but that. Dickman and Vegex's art are totally different in purpose. How well they fufill their desired purpose is comparable but nothing else really. Sorry OD, the discussion seemed to swing this way. .___. >___> blah let's just drop this... both artists have a fan and that's all that matters.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:08 pm
Kangaroo S.T.U. Kurokitsume Kangaroo S.T.U. surprised oooh I see so you prefer his art over andrew dickmans. See I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion. But instead, you were saying you prefer Vegex's art over Dickmans. :3 preference and talent are two different things. Sorry I misunderstood you.
If you intended it, well, up yours, if not... We'll see.Seriously though, are you saying Vegex is better than andrew dickman? In what ways are these? They way I see it is: Dickman, as far as skill, is much much better than Vegex. Proportion is accurate and his characters stay on model. The style is well suited for animation for companies to mass produce for episodes. That is the purpose of his art, not to express in an abstract way how he is feeling deep inside, his artwork is meant to make simple memorable characters for a story for TV. This is what his goal is, and this is what he has accomplished. Vegex is not an animator. Their art is for themselves to express their feelings. Vegex has many surreal pictures up because they are supposed to be vauge and invoke feelings and emotions though abstractness. This is what Vegex wants to accomplish in their art and this is what they have done. Both artists set goals for themselves and they have done what they came to do. Dickman with his animation and Vegex with their surrealism. Both artists should be respected for their work and not compaired. If Dickman was a surreal artist or if Vegex was an animator, then skills can be compaired, but at this point it's purely preference. I prefer Dickman's art more than Vegex because I'm not one for surreal much. I don't understand Vegex's art so i can't fully appreciate what they've done. However, I've grown up studying cartoons and animation, so i can understand Dickman's work. I don't hate Vegex's work, and I don't think they're horrible, I just don't prefer that type of art. It's like listening to music. I don't prefer Country music, but I'm won't say Reebah Macentire (I apologize for butchering the spelling of her name) isn't a great singer. So basically what I'm saying is... neutral It's okay if one says they prefer one artist over the other, but to blatantly state that artist A is better than artist B when they aren't trying to achieve a common goal is not fair. It's like... compairing my trombone skills to a Barber cutting hair. Totally unrelated. Only thing that can be compared is how good we both are at at our respected jobs. We can't argue who's better on anything else but that. Dickman and Vegex's art are totally different in purpose. How well they fufill their desired purpose is comparable but nothing else really. Sorry OD, the discussion seemed to swing this way. .___. >___> blah let's just drop this... both artists have a fan and that's all that matters.
Yesh.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:08 pm
Kuro Philosophy time!
Here's a question! Who has more skill? He who Uses the same strategy as millions, and thus always wins, or he who tries something not as well known, and comes close? He who Wins fame with the tried and true, or he who doesn't win fame with something that few try? He Who cheats, or he who doesn't?
What is Skill anyways? Perfection, capturing everything correctly? The abstract, making it as vague as possible? The emotional, conveying feeling through any means? The pose, the scene, the quality, the artist, the popularity?
Is skill the quick drawing your best friend, or little cousin or younger sibling? The fan artist, striving to do justice to what they enjoy?
Is skill Uncle Scottmale24's comic? Sam Green, of the Killing Spree movies? Krinkels Madness Combat? Sarah Davis with her comic, The Awakened? Vinnie Veritas? Pokelai? Coshi-Dragonite? AshlyEevee? Extvia? 4everADarkAngle, and her always changing ways? Onigrift? Zayger? What about Xiao Xiao, the creation of Zhu? Zarla's art? Hail-NekoYasha? Maybe deepbluerenegade? Satah? Spork? Kuro? crayon-chewer? Matthew Walker Of Crowded Street Advance, INC.? The Last Days of FOXHOUND by Chris?
Skill is quantified by the largest group of people. If three hundred say it sucks, and only a hundred defend it, the hundred are wrong. Skill is just a popularity game. There is no person who's skills are better then the others. It's how others see this skill, and how this skill is used that seems to count. To say one has less skills then another is unfair. One may pour every ounce of skill into the mood, others into a balance, others into complexity, and even more into simplicity. Some may use it to create massive amounts of art, some to create very little. Some may not even care, and are just making something to fit in with the current trend, being lazy and not using their skills to the fullest.
It's not a question of who has more skill, but of how people enjoy the use of this skill.
Saying someone newer to art, or someone who draws in a particular style has no skills would be like condemning millions of people to failure. Saying that their skills are lesser is promising no improvement.
Now, saying that they are using more of something then someone else, is fine. More expression of moods then the other, more flare then the other, more style. Less common style compared to more common. Yes. Not more skills though.
I never claimed to have more skills then anyone, unless in jest. I never proclaim someone as having more skill then anyone else, unless in jest.
Skills are even. Use of them maybe not so. You can tell if the skill is being used, or if they're not even trying.
Some other junk:
Oh, and the the "I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion." quip? Really low. Really, really low. YES, in some ways, it IS superior. In others it isn't. You saying that it ISN'T, in ANY WAY is just plain stupid and weak.
Here is where He is Superior: He continues with almost no fan-base. He draws in a more mood and tone style. He tries things that aren't that common. His art tends to convey feelings and emotions. He Uses colors in a slightly different way. A slight tint of green in the background as the person sits there, hinting at uneasiness or sickness. Nothing but red, black and white, showing pain, as the down turned face also shows.
Yes, I know he has many flaws, but that's because that wasn't what he was focusing on at the moment. And in the end it didn't destroy the picture.
Mr. Dickman has MANY areas where he focuses his skill in, but as such, other areas suffer. His art is usually full of brighter colors, and he has plenty of humor and wit. He has a style that reminds me of when I was younger, watching T.V. But he has few abstract, and can seem a little... repetitive at times. I'm not saying that's bad, it's just something that happens. And I still hold his art in high regard.
They are both superior and weaker, but both have the same amount of skills.
And I'm not the one who said either where superior. You where. "Dickman, as far as skill, is much much better than Vegex." "Seriously though, are you saying Vegex is better than andrew dickman? In what ways are these?" "preference and talent are two different things."
I only said: "This persons art is some of the best I have ever seen." ((And the "Dare I say it..." WAS a joke. Sorry you took it so hard, or that I didn't make that clear. My drama is usually well known.)) "But, I think Vegex has skills, if not greater, definitely in that league. Or at least the potential." "I say better as it doesn't have a style you see much.
Sure Vegex has some errors (Well, quite a few sometimes.) but his art is new, and has a very nice feel to it, you know? Andrew Dickman is damn good, but his style is, well, common. Every one seems to be doing that style."
Yes, the last one was badly worded. Sorry. I'll try to take more care in my wording from now on. I commented on both flaws and strengths though.
But, Compared to what you said? Wow, I'm a nice guy. I'm not treating either as really inferior to the other. Unlike what you said. Treating Mr. Dickman like he is a holy grail of the art world, to be praised more then others. Yes, he's good. But everyone who actually uses their skill should be praised, not just him. You can tell if someone tried or not. All who try to use this skill should get praise.
And I Mean actually tried. If you spend five seconds on something, and just slap it up in hopes of winning fortune and friends because it's popular, instead of actually trying, you are not using that Skill. You could. But you didn't.
In ending, Skill is equal, use of it is not.
I'm sorry for not dropping this, but we are in the Deviantart thread, and I felt this should be said.
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:17 am
Kuro, it probably wasn't your best decision to say that one artist was "better" than the other, jest (despite seeing that you've written the same thing in Vegex's page) or not. Especially when some person(s) hold that artist with high reguard and had just purchased something from them as a special gift for somebody for an annual event. I mean, if I didn't make it clear enough, that man's our idol.
However, I am much relieved that you did take the time to set things out. Although I must interject by saying that skill is an aquired attribute. It took decades for people such as DeVinci and Picasso to get to the skill level that they've gotten to. There is a reason why they became popular.
That said, Vegex definately has a lot of potential. It'll definately be interesting to see what he cooks up from now to the future.
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:42 am
I don't quite agree with the statement that skill is equal
in some ways it is true that skills can't exactly be measured against eachother
and while it is not totally about your skill, and is partly abotu how you use it, some people just aren't very talented and could spend just as much time on a picture as someone else, trying just as hard and come out with soemthing that is better than what they might usually create but that isn't that great in general.
like OD said, it takes work to become skilled in drawing...usaully
I'm sure there are some prodigies out there....like my friend shabbir....but for most people I would have to say that skill cannot be decided as ultimately equal. it would be equally hard to decide that skill are uneven....but whatever
biggrin
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:26 am
Kurokitsume Kuro Philosophy time!
Here's a question! Who has more skill? He who Uses the same strategy as millions, and thus always wins, or he who tries something not as well known, and comes close? He who Wins fame with the tried and true, or he who doesn't win fame with something that few try? He Who cheats, or he who doesn't? It doesn't matter how popular someone is. There are plenty artists that aren't known as much as others that have skill at what they do. Just because Andrew Dickman is popular doesn't play a factor in how much skill I feel he has. And just because someone is more popular doesn't mean they didn't come from humble beginnings either. I'm sure Dickman didn't start drawing like that stright out of the womb. Kurokitsume
What is Skill anyways? Perfection, capturing everything correctly? The abstract, making it as vague as possible? The emotional, conveying feeling through any means? The pose, the scene, the quality, the artist, the popularity?
Is skill the quick drawing your best friend, or little cousin or younger sibling? The fan artist, striving to do justice to what they enjoy?
Okay. Let me see if I can get this right. I'm not sure how to say this. What I was trying to say with my other post is. Both artists are after a different goal. Dickman is to appeal to big wig fat cats who want child cartoons on TV. That's how he makes a living. Being an animator and seeing his ideas come to life on screen Vegex makes art on a more personal level. They don't have to worry about any Nickelodeon jerk faces telling them what they want changed or altered. Because these two artists are totally going for different things, they can't be compaired. No one can say one is better than the other. So, I can't say Dickman is skilled more than Vegex or visa versa. It wouldn't be fair. All I can say is I prefer Dickman's art over Vegex's. This isn't because Dickman is more "popular." DA popularity is really shallow and retarded. I've seen some people with thousands of 'hits' that I don't like at all. If I liked everyone that was popular by DA standards I'd like Snapesnogger. I don't like their art. I apologize for coming off as an a**. Yes, OD is right. I just got a picture from him, I really look up to the guy for his animation and cartooning. I was on the defensive. Kurokitsume Oh, and the the "I thought you were saying his art was superior in some fashion." quip? Really low. Really, really low. YES, in some ways, it IS superior. In others it isn't. You saying that it ISN'T, in ANY WAY is just plain stupid and weak. Yes, I apologize for that quote. I was really angry at what I saw on the DA page. Over the internet I find it hard for me to tell the difference between when someone is kidding and when they are not. I've always had a rather confused idea of who you are, so the comment from DA seemed real to me. DA quote
You even beat Andrew Dickman is style.Stepping back to take a breather from the madness and look at it again, what you said isn't really what I thought it was at first. There's nothing wrong with what you said. It's just a compliment on style. Though, I would like to justify Andew Dickman's style choice and what not. To show that, even though he is popular, he's not a sham artist, or a con man out for only the compliments from DA. Trust me, 99% of the comments he gets are LOLZ I LUV UR WORK, which (to an artist trying to be in the industy) are totally meaningless and almost unwelcome in some cases. Kurokitsume
Here is where He is Superior: He continues with almost no fan-base. He draws in a more mood and tone style. He tries things that aren't that common. His art tends to convey feelings and emotions. He Uses colors in a slightly different way. A slight tint of green in the background as the person sits there, hinting at uneasiness or sickness. Nothing but red, black and white, showing pain, as the down turned face also shows.
- Andrew Dickman didn't ask for the fan base. He doesn't draw fan art to get more hits. He draws fan art because he's a fan. Example, Dickman's Johnny 5 art. He drew some art for that somewhat obscure movie. He didn't care if people didn't know who the robot was. Even without a fan-base, he'll keep going. My friend from school has a smiliar style to Dickman. He's an aspiring animator too. He doesn't have millions of page views or super squeeky fan girls, but he keeps posting for the sake of seeing progression. - Andrew Dickman can only try so much extreme stuff. He can't stray so much from the guidelines of the bosses. Especially if it's for a show for little kids. He's restricted. - That's a rather good critique, by the way. Not everyone picks up on things like that. Anyway, Dickman uses color to convey tone as well, but not so much so or so intensly. It seems to me he concentrates on the character itself rather than their surroundings. In this area he does lack. Haven't seen too much good use lately. Mostly just character designs. Kurokitsume
Yes, I know he has many flaws, but that's because that wasn't what he was focusing on at the moment. And in the end it didn't destroy the picture.Another good critique point. Kurokitsume
Mr. Dickman has MANY areas where he focuses his skill in, but as such, other areas suffer. His art is usually full of brighter colors, and he has plenty of humor and wit. He has a style that reminds me of when I was younger, watching T.V. But he has few abstract, and can seem a little... repetitive at times. I'm not saying that's bad, it's just something that happens. And I still hold his art in high regard.Yes, lots of bright colors. Mostly because cartoons use bright colors. Not to mention a lot of his characters are cheerie or happy. Sometimes using bright colors with his angry or depressed characters is an intentional clash between the character's mood and the fact that they are in a happy environment. Kurokitsume And I'm not the one who said either where superior. You where. "Dickman, as far as skill, is much much better than Vegex." "Seriously though, are you saying Vegex is better than andrew dickman? In what ways are these?" "preference and talent are two different things." At first I really thought you were saying that Vegex was better than Dickman. Again, I apologize for diving into the argument before really stepping back and understanding what you actually said. Kurokitsume
But, Compared to what you said? Wow, I'm a nice guy. I'm not treating either as really inferior to the other. Unlike what you said. Treating Mr. Dickman like he is a holy grail of the art world, to be praised more then others. Yes, he's good. But everyone who actually uses their skill should be praised, not just him. You can tell if someone tried or not. All who try to use this skill should get praise. Again, I'm sorry. I try hard not to be a n00b in posts. I'm just hot headed. It's a flaw that gets me into much trouble, as you can see. On a sour pessimistic note... Trying is commendable, but in some cases, it doesn't get you anything if you don't succeed. If school grades were based on trying, things would be differnt for many people who struggled to do well dispite overwhelming odds. Trying hard isn't everything. Trying hard and learning is something that is a different story. Kurokitsume And I Mean actually tried. If you spend five seconds on something, and just slap it up in hopes of winning fortune and friends because it's popular, instead of actually trying, you are not using that Skill. You could. But you didn't. And neither artist does that. Kurokitsume
In ending, Skill is equal, use of it is not.
I'm sorry for not dropping this, but we are in the Deviantart thread, and I felt this should be said.That's fine, I needed to apologize for my behavior anyway.
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:50 am
Origamidude Kuro, it probably wasn't your best decision to say that one artist was "better" than the other, jest (despite seeing that you've written the same thing in Vegex's page) or not. Especially when some person(s) hold that artist with high reguard and had just purchased something from them as a special gift for somebody for an annual event. I mean, if I didn't make it clear enough, that man's our idol.
However, I am much relieved that you did take the time to set things out. Although I must interject by saying that skill is an aquired attribute. It took decades for people such as DeVinci and Picasso to get to the skill level that they've gotten to. There is a reason why they became popular.
That said, Vegex definately has a lot of potential. It'll definately be interesting to see what he cooks up from now to the future.
And I already said that I love Mr. Dickmans work. Repeatedly. Both artists I like on an equal footing. I'm sorry that I made it look like I was attacking your Idol. If My puny mortal brain could come up with an excuse or a better way to appologise, I would. Really.
... My Views on skill stands.
We'll see. I hope.
Spork... Umm... That confused me a bit thar....
Hey, STU? That first bit? I find them all about the same skill wise. A Cheater who is successful is a skilled as another who doesn't cheat and accomplishes the same goal. It was a sorta paradoxical irony thing to make you think a bit. Anyways, not important.
And I knew what you where saying about the different art styles. It made perfect sense. I know what Mr. Dickman has to do. I know he has limits. Same with what Vegex and his style. I was getting defensive over the little remarks about how there was no way that Vegex had anything over Mr. Dickman. I realize That you like him a lot, enough that it's like a little kid saying he wants to be him when he grows up. And I never actually said that Mr. Dickman needed his popularity. Sorry for that lack of communication.
Who am I? I'm Spiderman! ... Not. Really. Yes, I am confusing. Something I usually pride myself in. I apologize for being a bit of an a**.
I Know Mr. Dickman isn't a sham artist. I just said that what he was doing was something you see alot of. That's not really a bad thing, as a lot of people then can get the picture. And I know most artists, when they get that popular, really are at the point of not caring about that sort of stuff. It's like a art-back-bone or something. Most useful.
I know. Well, not the friend bit, but, most of it. Sorry for making it look like I was attacking him.
Thanks for the compliment there... It is a compliment, right?
Zim doesn't use as many bright Colors. But, that's a messed up example. WAAAAY messed up...
I catch that contrast sometimes... I have a bit of a weakness picking out some things.
Hot Headed? Well, word on the block has it that I'm an a*****e. :3
Trying hard is everything. It's not the destination is not what matters, but what happens along the way.
Did I say either Did that?
I'm sorry as well.
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:00 pm
Kurokitsume
Thanks for the compliment there... It is a compliment, right? About picking up on the green and saying about how certain elements didn't disturb the overall picture? Yeah I was complimenting that. Normally people don't really look that much into pictures on DA. Those were nice critique points. Kurokitsume
Zim doesn't use as many bright Colors. But, that's a messed up example. WAAAAY messed up...Zim was one of the few examples of not using bright colors. Lots of things about zim was untraditional. Nickeloden really gave the creator a hard time about what would go in and what couldn't in the show. It's too bad, they had really good stuff. Kurokitsume
Trying hard is everything. It's not the destination is not what matters, but what happens along the way.XD;; though my experiences in art school I have some views on that. razz we'll save that for some other thread. :3 well now that everything is settled D< LET'S HAVE PIE!
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:09 pm
Kangaroo S.T.U. Kurokitsume
Thanks for the compliment there... It is a compliment, right? About picking up on the green and saying about how certain elements didn't disturb the overall picture? Yeah I was complimenting that. Normally people don't really look that much into pictures on DA. Those were nice critique points. Kurokitsume
Zim doesn't use as many bright Colors. But, that's a messed up example. WAAAAY messed up...Zim was one of the few examples of not using bright colors. Lots of things about zim was untraditional. Nickeloden really gave the creator a hard time about what would go in and what couldn't in the show. It's too bad, they had really good stuff. Kurokitsume
Trying hard is everything. It's not the destination is not what matters, but what happens along the way.XD;; though my experiences in art school I have some views on that. razz we'll save that for some other thread. :3 well now that everything is settled D< LET'S HAVE PIE!
*Throws pies everywhere*
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:13 pm
yeaaaah... I quit DA. Not uploading anymore images.
I'm thinking of starting a page with some of my more serious stuff and leaving the kstu one for maybe gaia things. I'm not sure.
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