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Manic Martini

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:16 pm


The thing about Eirika and Ephraim marrying each other in the Japanese version is a made up rumor that got some traction for a while and is actually not true. That was my understanding, at least.

As for her naivete:
-gives the Sacred ********' Stone away to someone established as a villain
-willing to give her Bracelet away to an enemy that doesn't even rank too highly despite Seth clearly knowing s**t she doesn't and telling her not to
-trusts Orsin and would be ******** over if Seth wasn't on it

Wouldn't be surprised if there are more examples I can't immediately think of. The idea of her going off to rescue her brother is objectively foolish though and if King Hayden had any sense of preserving the blood of royalty of another allied country he wouldn't have allowed her to leave whether she liked it or not though, methinks.

And she gives away that stone like a stupid b***h quite late into the game. So you can't say she outgrows her naivete as the game goes on. Like her Einherjar says, she's lucky to have people around to compensate for her own gullibility.

You could say FE13 emphasizes it, but it was there in FE8 plenty to justify emphasizing it.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:15 am


When it comes to Eirika in FE13, I get it. I don't feel the wrath toward it as much as big fans of Eirika do, but I get it. She's the butt of a lot of jokes, and to top it all off they stuck her in a stupid poofy dress and made that take up a lot of her conversation. What, Alm gets to be a dread fighter and Eirika is a bride? It probably wouldn't be as bad if Eirika herself didn't say she was naive and it was just Hubba being an a**, but there you go.

I'm not going to start up the whole bride thing again, but I think it is something that needs to be handled with care, since I do think it was a really dumb move on the part of IS, and one I feel like they wouldn't have made prior to FE13.

But on that note, one thing I love about the FE13 Einhejar chapters is that they are not afraid to poke fun at their past games and characters, which I really appreciate. I like it when people can laugh at themselves (I think that all FE Jugdral fans should at least glance at the conversation between Lissa and Julia in CoY3, I want to print it out and put it on my wall). In the case of Eirika herself, though, they do pile them on pretty thick. I think people would be more forgiving if they talked about other facets of Eirika. So I understand the frustration that a lot of people feel, even though I'm not the hugest fan of her myself.

More to come when I am awake.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 am


I'm just going to sum up in one sentence.

If Micaiah hasn't been introduced to Fire Emblem, Eirika would have still be the Fire Emblem Mary-Sue. >>;
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:36 am


Jisen Meizuki
I'm just going to sum up in one sentence.

If Micaiah hasn't been introduced to Fire Emblem, Eirika would have still be the Fire Emblem Mary-Sue. >>;

emotion_donotwant

why come?

ThePersonInFrontOfYou

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:52 am


ThePersonInFrontOfYou
Jisen Meizuki
I'm just going to sum up in one sentence.

If Micaiah hasn't been introduced to Fire Emblem, Eirika would have still be the Fire Emblem Mary-Sue. >>;

emotion_donotwant

why come?


What! It's true in my opinion. >>;

I would say FD's reply to Airship pretty much summed up about why Eirika is a Mary-Sue. She's naive, she has half the guys fall in love with her, and she's trying to be a perfectionist in order to save her brother/world (as FD explained why King Hayden didn't stop her.)

Although her stats is quite fragile compare to other Lords, I still feel like her stats is pretty much summed up as one of the Mary-Sue types (tries to be a powerful main character, but ends up as damsel-in-distress.)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:07 am


I'll make a more substantive post later, but for the record, I don't think Eirika is a Mary Sue. I think she's poorly executed and trapped in "We must progress the plot" clauses that require stupid things be done in order to make things progress as they need to, so she ends up being more stupid than her character is expressed to be, but she's not a Mary Sue. I generally like her.

And in case my prior post didn't clue you in, no, I do not think she ******** her brother. Grow up.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:19 am


Jisen Meizuki
ThePersonInFrontOfYou
Jisen Meizuki
I'm just going to sum up in one sentence.

If Micaiah hasn't been introduced to Fire Emblem, Eirika would have still be the Fire Emblem Mary-Sue. >>;

emotion_donotwant

why come?


What! It's true in my opinion. >>;

I would say FD's reply to Airship pretty much summed up about why Eirika is a Mary-Sue. She's naive, she has half the guys fall in love with her, and she's trying to be a perfectionist in order to save her brother/world (as FD explained why King Hayden didn't stop her.)

Although her stats is quite fragile compare to other Lords, I still feel like her stats is pretty much summed up as one of the Mary-Sue types (tries to be a powerful main character, but ends up as damsel-in-distress.)


I don't think Eirika is actually trying to be a perfectionist. She's just not very interesting. And she does make really really dumb mistakes in the game. Also, I feel alot of people don't give her nearly as much credit to her as a unit. Honestly, she's actually not that bad. Anyways, I'll eventually talk about her a bit more later myself.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:38 am


I used to think Eirika was a mary-sue. She's not. She's too stupid to be one.

And before the defense squad comes in, I get that she's supposed to be naive, and she certainly is. But there's a difference between being naive and being stupid. I've given my rant about Eirika for "willing to give her Bracelet away to an enemy that doesn't even rank too highly despite Seth clearly knowing s**t she doesn't and telling her not to" (Martini 4), so I'm not really wanting to do it again. It just takes a special kind of stupid. She's seen as a weak character, particular at the very beginning, and she is. But she's not really weak in character. She gets stronger, braver, and doesn't lose her kindness. The problem with her? She's just not terribly interesting by herself. Ephraim, on the other hand, is a badass.

I will give her that the game actually calls her out on disregarding her knight/strategist and 'punishes' her, unlike Roy, who is seen as a hero for going against 'the man'. Seriously. Don't ********' disrespect the Merlinus like that. He's right.

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Manic Martini

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:35 am


I have never seen anyone call Eirika a Mary-Sue. Her mistakes are real. Her flaws are real. She isn't super powered or super special.

Her wanting to go off to save Ephraim being her motivation is fine. It's the game letting her do so and King Hayden giving her his blessing that's unreasonable and a "must progress the plot" moment which looks bad on the game itself and King Hayden, but not so much on Eirika.

I also very much agree with Rath in saying that Eirika is not weak in character. Kindness is not weakness. And she's quite possibly the kindest lord in the series. Her naivete acts as a weakness, especially combined with her other traits, but she certainly isn't weak in character. And she experiences more growth as a character than Ephraim as a lead, as well. Ephraim starts the game as a tactical genius and total badass already. At the end of the game, that hasn't changed (and he's an excellent example of a good flat character, but more on that when it's his week). Meanwhile, Eirika grows quite a bit over the course of the game.

I also agree with Rhys that she's never given her credit as a unit because a lot of people seem to have this inexplicable bias against her.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:14 pm


Manic Martini
I have never seen anyone call Eirika a Mary-Sue. Her mistakes are real. Her flaws are real. She isn't super powered or super special.

Her wanting to go off to save Ephraim being her motivation is fine. It's the game letting her do so and King Hayden giving her his blessing that's unreasonable and a "must progress the plot" moment which looks bad on the game itself and King Hayden, but not so much on Eirika.

I also very much agree with Rath in saying that Eirika is not weak in character. Kindness is not weakness. And she's quite possibly the kindest lord in the series. Her naivete acts as a weakness, especially combined with her other traits, but she certainly isn't weak in character. And she experiences more growth as a character than Ephraim as a lead, as well. Ephraim starts the game as a tactical genius and total badass already. At the end of the game, that hasn't changed (and he's an excellent example of a good flat character, but more on that when it's his week). Meanwhile, Eirika grows quite a bit over the course of the game.

I also agree with Rhys that she's never given her credit as a unit because a lot of people seem to have this inexplicable bias against her.

As a unit, Eirika is not weak. She has virtually the same growths as Lyn, for reference, except 5% higher Luck and 10% higher Defense. She gains mounted mobility upon promotion instead of bows, and I like to argue that this is more valuable than bows, honestly, especially in a game with a lot of monster-type enemies who aren't going to necessarily be weak to arrows. Swords are an all-around good option for units to wield, because there aren't going to be a significant amount of enemy units who use lances outside of cavaliers (who also use swords) and enemy knights (who can be knocked flat with a Rapier, anyway).

But yeah, as a character, the game kinda trips over itself. It feels less like the game is trying to play up to Eirika and more like it's getting stuck in corners and having to proceed the plot (eg: Hayden giving Eirika her blessing). She's definitely a kind, compassionate, gracious princess, and the game overplays those values (as well as her naivete) in order to proceed the plot. It makes her look more dumb and her brother look considerably more intelligent, even when his general strategy is "charge in and kill more guys than they kill of ours."

I can't speak for anything done with her Einherjar in FE13, but I enjoy Eirika as a character, partly for the same reasons that I like Eliwood as a character. She's not the best character in the world but she's perfectly serviceable and I enjoy her supports with people. Her supports with Forde are pretty entertaining and I honestly like seeing her interact with Innes and Ephraim.

And as a small note, I still think it's adorable that her swordplay was entirely founded upon the fact that she learned how to use a weapon from her brother, who uses lances, and therefore uses her rapiers and such to stab and thrust instead of swinging and slicing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:39 pm


...Are not rapiers used for thrusting instead of slicing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:18 pm


Nomad Rath
...Are not rapiers used for thrusting instead of slicing?

That was phrased poorly, then. I meant more that swords are typically viewed as slashing weapons rather than strictly thrusting or piercing, but because she learned how to fight from her brother, who uses lances, she specifically uses a sword that can be used for thrusting/piercing instead of slashing. And as a result she's got a very different sword style than the other swordfighters in this game.

And I think the reason for why she fights the way she does is pretty sweet.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:51 pm


Now Eirika is one of the princess lord of the Fire Emblem series. (There has been technically two before her but she‘s the third one) Or rather to say the twin gender to her brother Ephraim. Of course, with FE13 description of her being naïve. And she seriously is in that note. It’s shown plenty of moments in FE8 and she definitely makes some very very dumb mistakes. While she is a princess she doesn’t really seem very princess-like at all. Even through the course of her journey, I don’t really feel she changes very much. Where as the problem that I have with her is that she isn’t very interesting. Sure she is nice and means well but I feel like there could’ve been a far more stronger character. She doesn’t want to be helpless by relying others, and I get that. But she doesn’t really show it or even develop from it that much. There is lots of ideas here and there that I do like about her. The parts where she does actually stand out for me is her supports, and I’m not gonna lie because I actually do find some great enjoyment in them.

The interactions that she has with the other characters I liked for the most part. The support with L’ Arachel is actually rather touching. Honestly, I found it to be a personal favorite of mine. I also liked the Innes support and the one with Ephraim. Also to quickly get this out of the way. There is NO evidence what so ever that they are an incest pairing in the story. I personally never found saw them as incest siblings. But the only one I don’t find interesting is Seth and Eirika’s support. I used to really be all for this pairing years ago. When I revisited their conversations many years later, their relationship just felt pretty bland to me. I just don’t find the whole knight protecting princess thing all that great.

So really it’s the other character she interacts with that makes her stand out a bit I would think… As for her naivety, the actions she makes is really dumb. She almost gives her bracelet to Orson. And she would have if Seth didn’t step in line to intervene and see through his betrayal. She gives the stone to Lyon because she still believes in him. That is the worst, dumbest mistake she ever made.

Anyways as for her as a unit… I don’t see what the problem is with her quite frankly? And most people don’t give her enough credit for some reason. As time goes on she as a unit as can grow fairly well. I think she is a great unit.(Though I don’t know why both herself and Ephraim have the same class name?) She pretty much excels in both skill and speed. Those are bound to be capped that’s for sure. And while her other stats are just fine too on top of it. The only drawback is that her strength isn’t necessarily that high, but I think her speed makes up for it. So you could say statwise she is similar to Lyndis from FE7 except she only uses swords. Later on she’ll get a legendary weapon called the Sieglinde which is rather good against undead enemies. She’ll do exceptionally well with killing edges as well or any other good swords. And there isn’t a secondary weapon for her like bows and such. But one crucial element that I find way better over Lyn, is that she actually gains a mount upon promotion. If you think about it having extra movement is extremely beneficial for maps in general. She practically does everything that Lyn does, but she’s actually more superior and efficient at what she does.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:31 pm


Marshmallow Kitty

Sounds like a twin sister doing what she can to aide her twin brother, heir to the throne, to me, and not like OOH PLEASE EPHY-SAMA STICK IT IN MY POOPER


First of all, I want that to be Ephy's new signature.

Second, most of how I feel about Erika as a unit has been said, so I'm not going to be covering ground that's already been established. The only complaint I have is how hyped up her naivety is played up, with how the two events are taken within context. Erika is a princess that, while a bit sheltered, lives for her people and those she cares about. She's a very sentimental person, and full of love and care for her fellow man. Giving up the bracelet, the first time around, is an act she made with the available information given to her. A trinket for the lives of her citizens? That's a deal she'd make in a heart beat. I'm not going to fault her for going against Seth when the only things she knew about it happened to be that A. It had a twin in the one her brother had, B. That her father wished for her to treasure it, and C. It, supposedly, had no other purpose. That's something you can't fault Erika, as a leader and as a royal, for.

As for Orson, you have a respected and trusted military advisor and combatant who worked side by side with her brother, who was trusted enough to fight during the later's guerrilla war against Grado. That says something about the position that Orson was in, especially in regards to Seth. Taking points away from her not listening to Seth in regards to the bracelet and then doing so again trusting Orson, who had knowledge of it on top of being a Royal Knight, seems a bit...critical. Seth, who had the advantage of knowing that only he was trusted with the information, on top of military experience, seeing through Orson isn't an example of some naivety on Erika's part. That's her learning from her mistakes back-firing on her. [Though I will definitely grant that she should never have removed the bracelet.]

As for Lyon, this is the one I'm willing say that she was certainly fits the description with, but you also have to take consideration of the context. With Lyon, you have someone that she had grown up with, cherished, and formed the deepest bonds of trust with. This is someone who is almost on par with Ephriam in her heart and in her trust, so for even a split moment of belief that he can be saved to be handed to her, there's nothing established about her that she wouldn't try. On top of that, you have a master manipulator in the Demon King, someone who had years, beyond centuries of experience peeking into the hearts of others and eating them from within with their own weakness.

SS has a common theme of love being used against the individual, be it love for a brother, for their country, for their fellow man, or even love for oneself. And Erika is the shining example of that, so I can't find fault with her character. She overcomes grief, loss, and betrayal time and time again, yet still finds the resolve to get back on her feet to work for those that are still there. Despite the recurring theme of the plot, Erika doesn't find it wrong to care, doesn't find it foolish to believe in the people around her. And we're right on the idea that Erika is stronger because of the people around her, because that's who she is, that's the core of her character.

And she's one of my favorite lords because of her growth, but also because of how she's still willing to care at the end of it.

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Manic Martini

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:56 pm


That is a fabulous post to end on, (L)Ewan, and I really wish I had time to keep Eirika the topic and could respond to it myself, but alas, onto the next character!

Sorry for not updating sooner, y'all. I have been super busy all damned weekend.

Anyway, the new character of the week is... Hector!

And following precedence, if you want to mention FE6 Hector, do it this week as well.

Surprise bitches! I bet you thought you'd see Eliwood or Lyn here instead (but instead, we're just going with recruitment in Hector's Tale since it will feature the entire playable cast that way).
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